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Barneydhc82

DH60M...The Gypsy Moth

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The Gypsy Moth was also used extensivly in Canada by both the fledgling RCAF and the flying clubs. The attached photos are of the Moose Jaw Flying Club's Gypsy, a 1929 model that was rebuilt and finally flown in Regina in Sept 1979 by myself. That is me in the front cockpit on the first test flight!

The elderly gentleman in the photo indoors was Steve Albulet who operated CF-ADI 0n floats in northern Saskatchewan during the 1930s...

One thing that I noted on the model today was the unusual control horn on the side of the aircraft...looks OK on a Gun Bus but not a Gypsy. The rudder cables exited the fuselage at the wing root in the front cockpit. There was a rudder bar extending out of the fuselge to which the rudder cables were attached.

Barney

RayandtheGypsy002.jpg

RayandtheGypsy001.jpg

IMG_1802_edited.jpg

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Hello Barney

THANK YOU for posting this little sweet article....

I see that you appear to have had a great time flying this BEAUTY....

its a lovely classy warbird.

HOLMES :monkeydance:

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Actually the Gypsy was designed for the flying school/private owner but was pressed into military service prior to WW2 as were many other types.

It was a delightful aircraft to fly..even though it did not have brakes or tailwheel.

Barney

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Actually the Gypsy was designed for the flying school/private owner but was pressed into military service prior to WW2 as were many other types.

It was a delightful aircraft to fly..even though it did not have brakes or tailwheel.

Barney

So how do you make it stop.... <_<

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You landed very slowly and held the stick all the way back so that the tail skid dug into the grass and hopefully slowed you down. Directional control on the ground was quite problematic if you did not have wing walkers to help and at times a heading change on the ground required lots of power (80 stumbling ponies), lots of determination, pactience and a few cuss words.

But it was fun.

Barney

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You landed very slowly and held the stick all the way back so that the tail skid dug into the grass and hopefully slowed you down. Directional control on the ground was quite problematic if you did not have wing walkers to help and at times a heading change on the ground required lots of power (80 stumbling ponies), lots of determination, pactience and a few cuss words.

But it was fun.

Barney

were they ever damaged on landing in this manner.

I guess you have to be very patient and not so nervous at all then.....you were BRAVE to be able to do that ..KUDOS to you Barney..

HOLMES

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:cheers:, G'day HOLMES,

Any taildragger aeroplane is likely to "ground loop" as it's called mainly because of the amount of fuselage behind the main wheels and the large area that presents to a cross wind. Once a ground loop has started it's very difficult to stop it. Perhaps Barney might disagree but I found the best approach to ground loops was to let it go and hopefully you're not too close to other aeroplanes when it does. I have experienced this once in my life. I was in the front seat of a Citabria and a WW2 pilot mate was in the back. I was taxying in to a parking spot and as I turned a contrary wind gust arose and she started to rotate. I applied full power and full opposite rudder and a little opposite differential braking but to no avail, she just kept going around through 180 degrees. At least she ended up pointing in the direction I wanted her facing but too close for comfort to the areoplane beside us. Not only was I embarrassed about this but when I'd brought her to a stop I looked over to the club house verandah there was one of my RAAF mates standing there laughing his sides out at me.

:salute:,

Ross.

Edited by ross blackford

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:woo:, G'day HOLMES,

Any taildragger aeroplane is likely to "ground loop" as it's called mainly because of the amount of fuselage behind the main wheels and the large area that presents to a cross wind. Once a ground loop has started it's very difficult to stop it. Perhaps Barney might disagree but I found the best approach to ground loops was to let it go and hopefully you're not too close to other aeroplanes when it does. I have experienced this once in my life. I was in the front seat of a Citabria and a WW2 pilot mate was in the back. I was taxying in to a parking spot and as I turned a contrary wind gust arose and she started to rotate. I applied full power and full opposite rudder and a little opposite differential braking but to no avail, she just kept going around through 180 degrees. At least she ended up pointing in the direction I wanted her facing but too close for comfort to the areoplane beside us. Not only was I embarrassed about this but when I'd brought her to a stop I looked over to the club house verandah there was one of my RAAF mates standing there laughing his sides out at me.

:worship:,

Ross.

Thank you Ross and....

Ross, That is very interesting to read.....Are you saying that if you sort of not fight against it and like a car in a skid , when you drive on into the skid, you are better able to control the car and the skid, that if you let it go and allow it to ride along the ground it will eventually grind to a halt but it will weave and be erratic ...

HOLMES

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I've only groundlooped once and that was in my Tiger Moth...with a full swivel tail wheel. An interesting thing about the Gypsy was the tail SKID helped to prevent the ground loop because it would dig into the grass. and the beast would tend to go straight ahead rather than do a 360*turn while digging in a wing tip.

And Ross is right about the mass being behind the centre of gravity, when it starts to breakout just don't fight it cause you'll not win the battle!

Barney

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I've only groundlooped once and that was in my Tiger Moth...with a full swivel tail wheel. An interesting thing about the Gypsy was the tail SKID helped to prevent the ground loop because it would dig into the grass. and the beast would tend to go straight ahead rather than do a 360*turn while digging in a wing tip.

And Ross is right about the mass being behind the centre of gravity, when it starts to breakout just don't fight it cause you'll not win the battle!

Barney

Thanks Barney, this has been an interesting thread to read... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

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:D, G'day HOLMES,

No I'm not saying that a car should be allowed to have its head if it starts to slide or four wheel drift. These things in cars tend to happen at much higher speeds that in an aeroplane and there are usually a lot of other people around who need to be protected from what the tonne or so of car can do to them, so I would and have in the past corrected, or at least attempted to correct any slide. To add to what Barney said, the Citabria also has a fully castoring tailwheel and two people as well as most of the fuselage behind the main undercarriage. What acted in my favour that day was the high wing layout of the Citabria; it would have had to have tipped over a long way for a wingtip to hit the ground. My only other worry was that I was attempting to park between two high wing Cessnas and that's how we ended up too close for comfort. As for my RAAF mate, he was swiftly told to shut his yap or try it for himself, :lol: an interesting concept seeing he didn't have a licence or any flying training!

:P,

Ross.

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:D, G'day HOLMES,

No I'm not saying that a car should be allowed to have its head if it starts to slide or four wheel drift. These things in cars tend to happen at much higher speeds that in an aeroplane and there are usually a lot of other people around who need to be protected from what the tonne or so of car can do to them, so I would and have in the past corrected, or at least attempted to correct any slide. To add to what Barney said, the Citabria also has a fully castoring tailwheel and two people as well as most of the fuselage behind the main undercarriage. What acted in my favour that day was the high wing layout of the Citabria; it would have had to have tipped over a long way for a wingtip to hit the ground. My only other worry was that I was attempting to park between two high wing Cessnas and that's how we ended up too close for comfort. As for my RAAF mate, he was swiftly told to shut his yap or try it for himself, :worship: an interesting concept seeing he didn't have a licence or any flying training!

:wub:,

Ross.

Okay Ross I am curious NOW..What does that mean... :jaw-dropping:

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:D, Hi HOLMES,

A fully castoring tailwheel is exactly what Barney had on his Tiger Moth, a tailwheel that can swivel (castor) through 360 degrees, like the castoring wheels on a shopping trolley at a supermarket. You can sometimes see light aircraft with this type of tailwheel tied down or even just sitting between flights or in a hangar with the tail wheel facing forward after having been pushed into that position by hand.

:),

Ross.

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Here's where I disagree to a point with Ross. The Citabria along with most other North American light aircraft have stearable tailwheels with cables and springs attached to the rudder and/or rudder cablls. There is also a cluch device in the swivel that limits the travel but when required allows the tailwheel to pivot 360*. The British tailwheel on the Tiger Moth DH82A/C use a fully swivelling unit that is not controllable.; the same unit was also used on the DHC Chipmunk and it made for some very interesting landings if you had a brain fart at the wrong moment.

Barney

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:), g'day Barney,

Yes of course you're correct. I simply forgot about the steering cables and springs on the Citabria. I do agree with you about the Chipmunk. When I was at school we had a manual arts teacher who was a WW2 pilot and and also one of our ATC officers. He joined the Royal Newcastle Aero Club when he returned from service. In those days RNAC's airfield was at Broadmeadow, about a mile or so from my house. Across both ends and along both sides there are storm water drains. He told us at one parade afternoon that he had been landing at Broadmeadow when the wind changed 180* just before he touched down and the aircraft started to float, and float and float, so that the drain at one end was approaching very rapidly. He managed to get the tail down and at the last moment gave her full left rudder and a bit of power and did a total 180* turn to head back the other direction and complete his landing run into wind. He said it was quite a hair raising experience and he wouldn't want to repeat it ever again.

:huh:,

Ross.

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Ross and Barney thank you both for the explanations of the tailwheel..

It is very infornative and I appreciate that you humor MY questions and queries, thank you

THANK YOU

HOLMES :thumbsup:

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