Faults alarm!! sorry, Canada did not ban the importation of al

[The_Animal]

Big Kev at LSP has gone though the relative material with a fine tooth comb. Modelling paints will be exempt due to the size of the bottles being under the prescribed size. Have a look at LSP here: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...mp;#entry270875

regards

Well...so much for that idea about having Dk Ghost Grey and Light Ghost Grey in 4 gallon tins...huh? :P

[RiderFan]

What I really want to know is...how does one achieve a NMF with acrylics?

Foil. I've been using it for years.

[CorsairMan]

I truly hope this was a decision made by the government after considerable debate amonst advisers using un-biased or even scidentific evidence to clearly show some benefit to the 'banning' of these substances.

However....

Somehow I think this is just a way for the government to look as though it is 'serious' about 'dangerous chemicals' in a way that will either (a) not get a lot of attention and/or ( only affect a small minority of voters.

I enjoy using acrylics but I am wondering whether my fav tamiya primer will be unobtainable now

[Sabre F-86]

I just spoke to Sheldon at Northstar Hobbies, He says that this is the US suppliers not wanting to go through all the BS of shipping hazardous materials to Canada. As mentioned its become a royal PITA to get the stuff up here without paying both arms and one leg for the priviledge of having enamels shipped. He is also in regular contact with Testors and they also have said nothing about this. You would expect the manufacturer to be well aware of any changes effecting their business.

I can find no notice anywhere on the web, be it news, or official Gov of Canada site that mentions this. I will be emailing my MP shortly for more information. This should be fun, I've dealt with that floating artifact of a healthy meal before but haven't had the thrill in a while because I moved away about 5 years ago. Well, I'm back, so its time to yank his chain again.

Sabre

[MoFo]

^ Your MP won't know anything because

ENAMEL PAINTS HAVE NOT BEEN BANNED.

I don't know how much more simply I can put it. This is a tempest in a teapot. A mountain out of a mole hill. A lot of fuss over nothing. Chicken Little.

It's not happening.

Edited July 19, 2010 by MoFo

[DutyCat]

Foil. I've been using it for years.

I think you need to reread my question! :lol:

[ron]

Well, I can't stand acrylics. I have been working with enamels for 30 years and understand their properties so well that it enables me to get results that I want without the hassles of acrylics. One thing I absolutely hate about acrylics is when they dry, you can't get them off of anything(brush or airbrush) without resorting to a very powerful solvent like lacquer thinner. So where is the "safe" advantage there?

Same, 30 years experience with Enamel, I know how they will react to different situations better than my wife :lol:

[Fishwelding]

Well, I can't stand acrylics. I have been working with enamels for 30 years and understand their properties so well that it enables me to get results that I want without the hassles of acrylics. One thing I absolutely hate about acrylics is when they dry, you can't get them off of anything(brush or airbrush) without resorting to a very powerful solvent like lacquer thinner. So where is the "safe" advantage there?

What I really want to know is...how does one achieve a NMF with acrylics?

We covered that above. Talon Acrylics is one option. I also think a decent finish can be had with Polly Scale's acrylic metals in their Railroad line, although they do not stand up to masking. Of course, in my experience neither does anything enamel in NMF, and about a year ago I ran various tests on Testors Silver with various thinners and overcoats, just to make sure.

With regard to cleaning, I airbrush over a utility sink, and just run the airbrush under the water after I disconnect the paint jar or cup. As for safe, well, I wouldn't sell them so much on that account for the modelers using them. You probably shouldn't breath most things you'd atomize via an airbrush. After all, you shouldn't eat crayons, either. On the other hand, if you live in an apartment, or with someone who is irritated by the paint fumes, Polly Scale and Acryl are fairly benign in this regard. While Tamiya's acrylics will clean up with water (as mentioned above, right after painting), they are sterner stuff.

I use acrylics because I find they put out less of an overspray haze, they don't smell as bad, and clean up is easier. Again, I also use enamels, if able to paint outside, and I don't spend a lot of time hating paint generally. In the past several years, I've learned to get consistent results with acrylics--a tough hide, eggshell-smooth, whose only difference with enamels is that the coat is slightly thicker. The latter can be a useful virtue, in some cases.

The whole argument is classically internet. Hey, if your supply of enamels isn't threatened--and it appears, after much classic interweb FUD, they aren't in Canada or the U.S., chest-beating self-righteous diatribes against the PC police to the contrary notwithstanding--keep using 'em. But if someday Testors decides it's not worth the trouble of dealing with them anymore...well, you could always try household latex wall paint, I suppose.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Fishwelding]

^ Your MP won't know anything because

ENAMEL PAINTS HAVE NOT BEEN BANNED.

I don't know how much more simply I can put it. This is a tempest in a teapot. A mountain out of a mole hill. A lot of fuss over nothing. Chicken Little.

It's not happening.

Aw, let 'em go for a while longer. See if we can get some misguidedly-angry letters to your MPs going. Maybe a street protest.

The last is a supremely hilarious thought. A bunch of modelers with signs protesting outside Parliament House. What, like five dudes, maybe six? Most passers-by, entirely unaware that anyone still builds plastic models, think the "Bring Back our Model Paints!" shouting must refer to cosmetics.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Scooby]

Hey Scooby,

I am not trying to mislead anyone here, really. Maybe I am jumping the gun a little here but I don't think so. I'll eat public crow if I am wrong which I hope I will.....

This all started with me trying to get Floquil Enamel paint last week and found the first LHS had lumped all their stock into one bin. I thought they quit carrying it. Today I went to a different LHS and was advised Floquil Enamels have been banned from import into Canada and he proved this to me when we went on line to his Canadian distributor's web site.

No more Floquil for sure.... So I started looking into it further and yes the link I sent is a US based company and shipping of Enamel to Canada has been taboo for sometime now via mail order. That said, that message is new. All the hobby shops here are really low on enamel paints, you can't find the common colors like White, Black etc. I'll find out why tomorrow.

The June 18th implementation of the new VOC regulations is real. and I've been aware of this for sometime now from the Automotive industry all though there have been some extensions to 2011. I believe our hobby has been lumped into this legislation.

Maybe I am dead wrong here, I hope I am, and I hope your right. We should all know by Monday.

I also ent a note to Testors today asking them what is up.

That said, Floquil Enamel is definitely gone over this effective June 18th......100% confirmed on that one.

Ron

I have known exactly why Floquil was banned, it was a labeling issue and I have known this for months. I heard it was worked out though. For a while they were not being imported and Testors said they were not going to fix the labels.

[Oroka]

Have minimal branding, perhaps primary on a box. On the bottle, have minimal branding, and use all the label for warnings. Put some on the cap, some on a sticker on the bottom. It is doable, pain in the ***, but that is better than going out of business. If you have to charge a bit more, that is better than nothing.

[mingwin]

today i receive 20 AKAN enamels from ukraine.

end of story.

Edited July 28, 2010 by mingwin

[Berkut]

today i receive 20 AKHAN enamels from ukraine.

end of story.

AKAN. Didn't know they have enamels, are you sure? They are produced in Finland, and i am rather sure that the factory makes only acrylics.

[RiderFan]

I spoke to the owner of two hobby shops this past weekend. Both said the only additional regulations are in regards to labels. Canada no longer allows the import of paint that is improperly labelled. What that means is that Tamiya has to have English and French warnings and description on the label or somewhere in the packaging. And actually, I'm okay with that. I don't read Chinese or Japanese and when in my own country, I expect to be able to buy products with labels I can read.

[Henrik B]

Regardless of this latest scare is correct or not, I hope you all realize that ten-twenty years from now, we're not going to have any enamels or laquer hobby paints anymore?

Legislation, on the basis that this stuff actually is hazardous, will be put in place and the model paint lobby is not a big factor, sadly. But, I can't say that the model industry would deserve an exemption - acrylics are good enough. *I* can't use them, I'm useless with acrylics, but enough modellers do that I realize the problem lies at my feet, not the paint itself. I will have to learn at some point.

[Fishwelding]

Regardless of this latest scare is correct or not, I hope you all realize that ten-twenty years from now, we're not going to have any enamels or laquer hobby paints anymore?

Legislation, on the basis that this stuff actually is hazardous, will be put in place and the model paint lobby is not a big factor, sadly. But, I can't say that the model industry would deserve an exemption - acrylics are good enough. *I* can't use them, I'm useless with acrylics, but enough modellers do that I realize the problem lies at my feet, not the paint itself. I will have to learn at some point.

Unless we get more people to discover the hobby, many of us will be priced out of it altogether by then, anyway. Among needlessly-gloomy FUD possibilities, I see that as the more probable doom, as the paint manufacturers may be able to follow the bigger paint manufacturers in using new chemical developments to phase out the restricted chemicals, and thus sell something like "enamel" or "lacquer" paints we have now. Of course, people will gripe, just like the old timers still grip that "back in 1990-so-and-so, Testors screwed up the formula, and they haven't been any good ever since, blah blah..." and "Polly S was a much better paint than Polly Scale blah blah...and" and "Humbrol ruined their paints when they...blah blah."

After all, the Mayans predicted we'd lose Solvaset by 2012.

[ron]

just like the old timers still grip that "back in 1990-so-and-so, Testors screwed up the formula, and they haven't been any good ever since, blah blah..." and "Polly S was a much better paint than Polly Scale blah blah...and" and "Humbrol ruined their paints when they...blah blah."

People that built in the 90's are old timers? that makes me feel old for sure Buy 1990 I had been building for something like 15 years already.....

[Fishwelding]

People that built in the 90's are old timers? that makes me feel old for sure Buy 1990 I had been building for something like 15 years already.....

Nah. It's just that by the 1990s, the old timers had been building for 30 years. Another gripe of theirs usually ran something like "I remember when those jars were 10 cents," and "back then, we didn't have Testors holding our hand for every FW-190 color. We mixed our colors, D__n it!"

Kidding aside, I'm sort of coming around to the latter point of view as I get older. How many obscure colors does Testors cross-subsidize with sales of blacks, whites, the primaries, olive drab, gull gray, and the other popular tints. When I buy Zinc Chromate Green, am I paying so someone has a jar of some arcane gray that probably is very, very close to the same stuff sold in the small, square jars?

Harrumph!

[The_Animal]

I don't read Chinese or Japanese and when in my own country, I expect to be able to buy products with labels I can read.

Don't worry, I'm Japanese-Canadian and I can't read that chopstick-lettering either.

[RiderFan]

Nah. It's just that by the 1990s, the old timers had been building for 30 years. Another gripe of theirs usually ran something like "I remember when those jars were 10 cents," and "back then, we didn't have Testors holding our hand for every FW-190 color. We mixed our colors, D__n it!"

{snip}

Harrumph!

I don't remember when they were 10 cents, but I do remember when they were bigger. At some point Tamyia's acrylic paint bottle sizes were cut in half yet cost the same.

[Fishwelding]

I don't remember when they were 10 cents, but I do remember when they were bigger. At some point Tamyia's acrylic paint bottle sizes were cut in half yet cost the same.

When I got started modeling as a kid in the 1980s, my dad periodically bought me the old Monogram 1/48th Navy classics, and the P-40B. He gave me his paints, a collection that in some cases went back to the '60s, all stored in an old, sturdy cigar box. Some of the Pactra paints were in their old "jewel"-style bottles. But they, and the old Testors bottles with the ancient labels mixed up and painted well. I remember distinctly painting that Dauntless interior with Pactra paint.

And of course, those Monogram kits were labeled "Monogram" and bought at a since-defunct drug store for about $3.00 a piece.

Shucks. I have the AM kit, but...maybe some time I'll pick up an old Monogram Dauntless and see what I couldn't do with that old war-pig another time around.

[mingwin]

AKAN. Didn't know they have enamels, are you sure? They are produced in Finland, and i am rather sure that the factory makes only acrylics.

ARMORY pretends they have "thinner based" AKAN.

Edited July 28, 2010 by mingwin

[Scooby]

ENAMEL PAINTS HAVE NOT BEEN BANNED.

People are just reading the thread title and are not reading through the posts.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Scooby

[Scooby]

I spoke to the owner of two hobby shops this past weekend. Both said the only additional regulations are in regards to labels. Canada no longer allows the import of paint that is improperly labelled. What that means is that Tamiya has to have English and French warnings and description on the label or somewhere in the packaging. And actually, I'm okay with that. I don't read Chinese or Japanese and when in my own country, I expect to be able to buy products with labels I can read.

Which is exactly what I posted last week in regards to the Floquil temp ban.

[ron]

People are just reading the thread title and are not reading through the posts.

Yup, I've created a monster.

Sorry about that.

Ron