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F-15 C Conversion ?


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So I am about to build an F-15C. I have been eyeballing various 1/32 F-15C builds of the Tamiya kit and it seems thatone of the things which must be done to this kit is to do some "conversion" of the kits parts (which are apparetly F-15E). So now I am looking at my 1/48 scale F-15E kit - which is super nice.. What would it take to convert it to a F-15C MISP?

I know all about the pit and bay 5 and seats (yes and the HUD).

The canopy and part of the rear fuselage are different, non-bulged gear doors - but what else? Im thinking this might not be that hard to do!

what do you all you Eagle experts think?

Regards,

Frank

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Way, way too much. This question gets asked very, very often. If you want details, I can find the threads...if not, just take it at this...build your F-15E as a Strike. Get a Hasegawa F-15C and build that as a F-15C.

Aaron

Edited by strikeeagle801
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The F-15C and F-15E are a lot like the T-38 and the F-5B - superficially they're very much alike, but the deeper you delve the more differences you'll discover.

Of course you could convert an F-15E in an F-15C, if you're stubborn enough (heck, you could theoretically convert a MiG-23 into an F-4E...) but it's a lot more work than I'd be willing to undertake.

Cheers,

Andre

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Way, way too much. This question gets asked very, very often. If you want details, I can find the threads...if not, just take it at this...build your F-15E as a Strike. Get a Hasegawa F-15C and build that as a F-15C.

Aaron

Hey Aaron,

yea - I want details if that's possible. I'm interested to see what the differences are so I can determine for myself weather or not it is something I want to do.

Regards,

Frank

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Ok -found this by Ol Crew dog..

very good list !

BTW - I don't see any deal breakers here!

to C or D...

Mon Mar 31 11:57:55 2003

24.66.94.141

C/D model to E model differences

First I will tell you that I have worked on all the models of the F-15 A through E from 74 model to 96 model E's, including the J when I was on exchange in Japan with JASDF and the I and S when I was Transient Alert at Lakenheath. The 96 models had more composite material on the airframe thus Gear door interiors and speedbrake interior have a ribbed structure.

E to C/D starting from the Radome working back, general considering the C is a single seater and the D is a Tub.

1)Radome on the E does not have the Urethane boot on the tip (glossy portion on the C/D model)

2)ICS Antennas from the C/D, in between the blade Ant and aft of nose gear aft door on the underside of the nose replaced with flush mounted Ant.

3)HUD combining glass and fwd/aft cockpit instrumentation and CRT differences from C/D to E.

4) the E Canopy framing has ECS ducting installed due too the increased need for more cooling air for the backseater and avionics.

5)Wing root anti-collision lights are smaller and set closer to the wing root on the E then the C/D.

6)Speedbrake is beefed-up and has a small indentation on the aft Trailing edge for a hand hold for manual raising of the speedbrake on the E, also there should be no well for the speedbrake as on the real aircraft it lays flush on the skin of the airframe on all F-15's.

7) Just aft of the speedbrake there are 6 screens (three per side of the rectangular panel on the center line) this is the JFS (Jet Fuel Starter) chimney on the E, on the C/D there is one screen offset to the left for the JFS chimney, the panel in the middle is for additional avionics on the E.

8) The engine humps have additional doors to facilitate engine maintenance on the E as the C/D only has one for the engine forward mount and two for the aft mounts.

9) Rudders have an additional beef-up for the center hinge point on the E, this was being done to the C/D but through attrition.

10) A logo light was installed at the base of the Vertical stab on the E not on the C/D.

11) the E model horizontal stab has a reinforcing strip (sealant) raised line running along the leading edge dogtooth fairing mount, C/D models do not have this.

12) Stinger Ant or what we called nipples are of a different configuration from the C/D model to the E, references should be checked for the specific aircraft to be modeled as to what is installed.

13) All E models came from the factory with panel 128 removed, depending on time frame the A/B/C/D models these were not removed till 1991 after a mod was done.

These are mods Nose to tail on the belly of the aircraft

14) Gun door has a bulge on the E referred to as the ext clip door, this was were we put our forms for the aircraft also access to the gun drum which the interior was modified from the D to E in having more avionics stuffed up inside of there as well.

15) Main forward Gear doors are bulged on the E for the beefed-up landing gear and increased height and width of the E model tires.

16) JFS exhaust no longer has the louver just a hollow pipe (aft of centerline pylon on the centerline of the aircraft) on the E model, C models were all modified with new JFS exhaust by 1994.

17) E model Engine bay panels modified so they could be dropped for engine maintenance without dropping the CFTs, the CFTs covered some of the engine bay panels on the C and we had to drop the CFTs anytime we had Engine maintenance.

18) There are two Engine Oil servicing doors on the forward engine bay panel on the E, one inboard and one outboard, the C had one.

19) Tail hook was extended down 2" from the bottom of the fuselage on the E to give more room for more avionics, the C models was flush to the fuselage.

20) Stab actuator panels reconfigured so limited stab maintenance could be done with CFTs installed including a small access panel for doing flight control trimming was installed, C model had unmodified panel as CFTs were hardly ever installed.

Ohh and the struts..

1)Nose and main struts are beefed up, thinker then the A/B/C/D struts.

2)Draglinks on both nose and mains are thicker with the drag springs larger in circumference (round spring looking things at hinge point on drag link used to help strut retract)

3) The bungee on the C/D model strut replaced with a rigid link on the E (thing that comes down and attaches to the draglink from the trunnion on the mains) this is what makes the strut rotate into the wheelwell when retracting.

4) Wheels (rims) on the E have a spacer on the mains for height and different internal for width, different rim overall, face still has the same pattern as C/D.

5) The nose strut has a shimmy damper installed on the front to keep the heavily laden E model nose tire from oscillating on hi-speed taxies or take-off and landing (looks like a thick tube coming out of the strut).

6) The oleo is square I frame on the E in comparison to the rounded oleo on the C.

7) Nose tire is thicker on the E then the C.

There are numerous other changes not noticeable on a model of 1/48 or 1/32, but you get the point. This is a pretty basic list but gives you some idea as to some of the changes to the E model, there are more panel differences but I would be typing all day with panel lists in front of me. Any questions just e-mail me direct.

Cheers Dave

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Heck, I bet upgrading and super detailing the snot out of the old Tamiya 1:48th F-15C would be easier than converting a F-15E

Humm.. tempting except that I think you're grossly mistaken, and would take the bet except I would feel guilty to making a "sucker bet" :salute:

(just having some fun incase that comes across wrong)

Regards,

Frank

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Frank-

Here's a current Revell/Hasegawa conversion that CliffC is doing. He's doing an exellent job, but you can see just how much he has had to change. It is a lot of work. As Andre mentioned, the F-15C and F-15E are really two completely different animals that just share the general shape, so was called the same thing. Under the skin, pretty much everything is different between a Charlie and an Echo. I'm not trying to dissuade you. By all means, if you want to put in the work, go for it. I'm just trying to answer your question and let you know you how much work it is if you attempt this. Good luck if you decide to do it, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask me. I'll be glad to help if/when I can.

Aaron

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Frank-

Here's a current Revell/Hasegawa conversion that CliffC is doing. He's doing an exellent job, but you can see just how much he has had to change. It is a lot of work. As Andre mentioned, the F-15C and F-15E are really two completely different animals that just share the general shape, so was called the same thing. Under the skin, pretty much everything is different between a Charlie and an Echo. I'm not trying to dissuade you. By all means, if you want to put in the work, go for it. I'm just trying to answer your question and let you know you how much work it is if you attempt this. Good luck if you decide to do it, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask me. I'll be glad to help if/when I can.

Aaron

yes - that's what Im talking about! very very nice!

That's exactly what I'm looking for

thanks

Frank

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I'll repeat what I say every time this subject comes up.

If you would put the same amount of effort that it takes to convert the Revell "E" to a "C" into detailing the Hasegawa kit you would have a much better model in the end with 2/3's the amount of labor and cost.

What is the draw of the Revell kit? The surface detail, so how hard would it be to replicate what little detail the Hasegawa kit might be lacking? The conversion in it's own right will obliterate 30% of this detail that will have to be replaced anyway, so it seems like your going to take 2 steps backwards then have to go forward 3 steps just to be 1 step better then the Hasegawa kit out of the box, it just seems like allot of wasted effort that could be used elsewhere.

Curt

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I'll repeat what I say every time this subject comes up.

If you would put the same amount of effort that it takes to convert the Revell "E" to a "C" into detailing the Hasegawa kit you would have a much better model in the end with 2/3's the amount of labor and cost.

What is the draw of the Revell kit? The surface detail, so how hard would it be to replicate what little detail the Hasegawa kit might be lacking? The conversion in it's own right will obliterate 30% of this detail that will have to be replaced anyway, so it seems like your going to take 2 steps backwards then have to go forward 3 steps just to be 1 step better then the Hasegawa kit out of the box, it just seems like allot of wasted effort that could be used elsewhere.

Curt

Um ok.. I assume you have super detailed and eagle or two? well, I don't think it's so much about the hasegwa kit "lacking" as the Revell kit is really really good to start with. And it doesn't look that hard to do. So maybe try it - then you can better judge if it's worth it?

No offense - I am not really interested in hearing opinions on the futility of this, I was just interested to see if anyone knew what it took, and yes, someone knew so now I know. As to the work involved - I don't think it's that bad. Some sanding and scribing. the hard part is getting the canopy parts from the hasegawa kit. That's the bad part - turns that kit into a $60 detail set -lol

The good thing is I know what it takes. The bad thing is it takes a really expensive donor kit...

Such is life

Frank

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Here's my $0.02 from 3 partially successful, and still unfinished, attempts at this conversion just in case it helps. In no particular order:

1) The main gear doors can be sanded almost flat without breaking through. To do it right you need to also take some curvature out of the skin panel just forward of the door. There's a bit of oil canning so if you want the door perfectly flat it will have to be backed up with styrene, epoxy or whatever.

2) The ammo door needs to be totally redone; sanded flat, rescribed and a vent and two latches added. I knocked out the whole panel and replaced it.

3) The ECS vent behind the canopy can be reshaped by thinning and then making four or so fine cuts. I wasn't totally happy with the results so I built a master that I'm much happier with.

4) I toned down the raised detail on the horizontals, ailerons and flaps.

5) The tail hook was a b**ch to flatten and rescribe, next time I think I'll cut it out and scratch something.

6) The Hasegawa, Monogram and Falcon canopies are much too wide for the fuselage and need to be sucked in. I reshaped a Monogram canopy frame that fits nicely and I was surprised at how much plastic needed to be removed. The plan is to vacuform a canopy for the reworked canopy frame. I've got the master and the vacuform table, currently I'm just lacking the frame for the plastic.

7) I'm using the Aires cockpit sets, they look good and have a nice glare shield.

8) The tail booms have enough plastic to reshape into the original configuration with no antennae.

9) I'm using the True Details wheels with the bulges toned down a bit.

I'm sure there's others, these are the ones that come to mind. The rest is pretty straightforward, filling panel lines, popping in vents, moving some antennae etc.

Nick

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Um ok.. I assume you have super detailed and eagle or two? well, I don't think it's so much about the hasegwa kit "lacking" as the Revell kit is really really good to start with. And it doesn't look that hard to do. So maybe try it - then you can better judge if it's worth it?

No offense - I am not really interested in hearing opinions on the futility of this, I was just interested to see if anyone knew what it took, and yes, someone knew so now I know. As to the work involved - I don't think it's that bad. Some sanding and scribing. the hard part is getting the canopy parts from the hasegawa kit. That's the bad part - turns that kit into a $60 detail set -lol

The good thing is I know what it takes. The bad thing is it takes a really expensive donor kit...

Such is life

Frank

Suffice it to say that Curt knows what he is talking about.

Again, not trying to be pushy or rude, but we've answered your question. What you do from here on out is your choice. Curt and I are both saying the same thing. You can save yourself a lot of trouble and money by taking the Hasegawa kit and "spruce it up" You'll have just as good a looking F-15C as you would going through the Revell conversion and not have to fuss with it so much. I'm telling you again, just about everything on the Strike is different than on the Light Grays, and although the way Revell set the kit up, they could've tooled a Charlie as welland used some of the same parts, they have not. I think one reason for this is that only 3-4 main parts would be unchanged from the two kits. top of the fuselage could be kept the same (If they did not mind the inaccuracy of the JFS vents), the vertical stabs and the engine parts are all I can really think of off the top of my head. Everything else would have to be re-tooled.

Aaron

ps. And yes, the Revell kit is a really good kit to start with...for an F-15E. The Hasegawa kit is a really good place to start for any other A-D Eagle varient.

Edited by strikeeagle801
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Suffice it to say that Curt knows what he is talking about.

Again, not trying to be pushy or rude, but we've answered your question. What you do from here on out is your choice. Curt and I are both saying the same thing. You can save yourself a lot of trouble and money by taking the Hasegawa kit and "spruce it up" You'll have just as good a looking F-15C as you would going through the Revell conversion and not have to fuss with it so much. I'm telling you again, just about everything on the Strike is different than on the Light Grays, and although the way Revell set the kit up, they could've tooled a Charlie as welland used some of the same parts, they have not. I think one reason for this is that only 3-4 main parts would be unchanged from the two kits. top of the fuselage could be kept the same, the vertical stabs and the engine parts are all I can really think of off the top of my head. Everything else would have to be re-tooled.

Aaron

ps. And yes, the Revell kit is a really good kit to start with...for an F-15E. The Hasegawa kit is a really good place to start for any other A-D Eagle varient.

Hey again Aaron,

Im not worried - I dont' take offense, and thanks for posting that link - that was very helpful! I don't know much about eagles, but I know a little about making models - so hopefully I can come up with something close enough - especially since someone else has already paved the way there.

Regards,

Frank

Frank

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:doh: I know, I'll turn my really nice and accurate Hasegawa F-15C into an E. Then my really nice and accurate RM F-15E into a C and then have the same aircraft that took 10x the effort to build.

What is the point? Just to say "I've done it!"

Chris

Edited by borz666
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post photos!

lol

Frank

:worship: I know, I'll turn my really nice and accurate Hasegawa F-15C into an E. Then my really nice and accurate RM F-15E into a C and then have the same aircraft that took 10x the effort to build.

What is the point? Just to say "I've done it!"

Chris

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Frank-

Here's a current Revell/Hasegawa conversion that CliffC is doing. He's doing an exellent job, but you can see just how much he has had to change. It is a lot of work. As Andre mentioned, the F-15C and F-15E are really two completely different animals that just share the general shape, so was called the same thing. Under the skin, pretty much everything is different between a Charlie and an Echo. I'm not trying to dissuade you. By all means, if you want to put in the work, go for it. I'm just trying to answer your question and let you know you how much work it is if you attempt this. Good luck if you decide to do it, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask me. I'll be glad to help if/when I can.

Aaron

Hi Frank:

I'm the person that has been working on the conversion Aaron referenced above. I really appreciate your perspective of "can this be done" rather than "is it worth doing". I obviously decided it was worth giving it a go and very glad that I did. There are a number of people on these boards that have tremendous knowledge about the real aircraft and they've been a great help to me as I've worked through the build. However, I always to keep in mind that I'm not trying to convert a 100% accurate F-15E into an F-15C. The task at hand is really taking a look at the Revell kit and saying what needs to change for it to become an "accurate" F-15C. I use accurate in quotes because there is no such thing as a 100% accurate kit and we all make different value decisions about what inaccuracies we're willing to tolerate.

The part that surprised me the most about this build was how many C features were already built into the kit. For example, I started working on the wing pylons this past weekend. While the general shape is the same between the C and E, the F-15E used a very different mechanism to attach the munitions to the wing. When I looked at reference pictures, the kit parts are spot on for a C and inaccurate for an E. However, the sway braces were accurate for an E. I hope to post some pictures of this on my build in the next few days.

As for the conversion steps, these were not as difficult as I originally thought and have been made easier if you choose to use pieces from the Aires cockpit set. In the end, it's just plastic and anything is possible. Give it a try and have fun attempting the change.

HTH - Cliff

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Well after all this I hope it works out and you'll post some pictures. If you were doing a "A" model I'd suggest the markings for either the 5th, 48th, or 318th Fighter Intercepter Squadrons.

Who's are you thinking of doing?

Good luck.

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BTW, can I build a "D" with Revell "E"? or I just go Hasegawa "D" or "DJ"?

You would face the exact same challenges as converting it into a C, only without having to convert to a single seater. The Revell E is purely an E, and nothing else. An F-15D is simply a two-seat F-15C, and a totally different animal from the E.

J

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About the only way I could see using an E model to do a D is to do a nose swap between it and a single seater kit and using the single seat kit as a basis for the airframe. The shapes of the noses are about the same between the D and the E, although the cockpits are very different from one another (especially the rear pit). It would result in a lot of leftovers though.

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