Modern U.S. Navy Surface Warship thread

[Fishwelding]

I figured I'd start a master thread here for U.S. Navy surface ships, for modeling purposes. Recently, I've been contracted to build an Arleigh Burke kit, and I confess I know very little about modeling modern U.S. Navy ships. This is not out of prejudice toward the subject, but simply that I've just never gotten around to that neighborhood of modeling before. In fact, I'm somewhat enthused by the opportunity.

In fishing around the web last night, I noted that it seemed like a lot of people liked the Modelmaster "Ghost Grays" for the U.S. Navy's "haze gray," or vertical surface gray paint. Modelers seemed to vary on deck colors, with a rough-but-not-complete consensus forming around Gunship Gray. I wanted to get opinions here, however, before stocking up the requisite paint.

Also, I note that Flight I Arleigh Burke tin cans appear to have a helicopter pad, but no hanger aboard. I gather that this means these ships do not carry a permanent helicopter detachment?

[Grey Ghost 531]

You could go to White Ensign and get color matched paint from their Modern Naval colors.

I understand that neutral gray was a good match for haze gray and gunship gray was a good match for deck gray.

according to WIKI:

Aircraft carried:

• None, but LAMPS III electronics installed on landing deck for coordinated DDG-51/helo ASW operations (Flights I and II)

• Two SH-60 Seahawk LAMPS III helos (Flight IIA onwards)

From Globalsecurity.org:

"The first 28 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers have a helicopter deck but no hanger or embarked helicopters. Ships in production Flight IIA, starting with USS OSCAR AUSTIN (DDG-79), also have landing and hangar facilities for operation of two multi-purpose Light Airborne Multipurpose System LAMPS MK III helicopters. This capability will be added for the remaining 29 ships of the class."

Edited August 26, 2010 by Grey Ghost 531

[Fishwelding]

Incidently, last night I matched up the hull of the Burke-class DDG kit (Dragon's) with Tamiya's World War II Fletcher. Hilarious. You could stuff several Fletchers into the modern destroyer. When I finish the bigger DDG, I'll probably put together the smaller DD so they can be displayed together.

Burke (DDG 51), 8,373 tons full displacement vs. Fletcher (DD-445), 2,924 tons full displacement. I haven't yet matched up the hull with my Trumpeter San Francisco kit, but considering that cruiser was a "treaty cruiser," at 9,950 tons displacement, the observation should be equally interesting.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Fishwelding

[spejic]

There is so much weathering that exact paint matching isn't really meaningful. You can find plenty of pictures of ships that were partially re-painted, and the new paint looks totally different than paint only months old.

What scale and what model are you making? You are going to find that ships are way more detail oriented than even the most finicky, antenna sprouting aircraft.

[Fishwelding]

There is so much weathering that exact paint matching isn't really meaningful. You can find plenty of pictures of ships that were partially re-painted, and the new paint looks totally different than paint only months old.

What scale and what model are you making? You are going to find that ships are way more detail oriented than even the most finicky, antenna sprouting aircraft.

I've done some World War II stuff previously, in 1/700th scale. Yes, they are indeed finecky. My feeling is that ship modeling is the most challenging subdiscipline of modeling.

It's Dragon's 1/350 Arleigh Burke Flight I kit, sold as "The Sullivans." Neither I nor the kit's owner have decided on which ship yet, although I'm faintly leaning toward the Hopper (DDG 70).

Having done some preliminary work tonight (assembling some details), it's pleasant to work in the bigger scale. In fact, my biggest ongoing challenge is constructing a set of wedged keel blocks, and ensuring the ship is firmly pegged to them without listing. The kit is a newer boxing, with a set of photoetch included; this is my first attempt at photoetch on a ship, but the job looks a great deal simpler than the photoetch sets I have for either my unbuilt Fletcher or San Francisco kits. (The latter build will be even more complicated, as I plan to build a sister ship, the Tuscaloosa, in a pre-war rig, once I've assembled what I judge to be sufficient reference sources).

I'm thinking Light Ghost Gray will do just fine. It is not to be weathered at all, as it is requested as a "Yard Model," or a traditional ideal display model. Indeed, the anti-fouling red will be "brightened" up for aesthetics.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Fishwelding]

I told the client: Before I cut off the upper portion of the mounting pegs, now's his last chance to have a Sailing-ship Arleigh Burke! Yarrr!

He requested a visiting SH-60 on the fantail pad. Accordingly, I've procured this item from Trumpeter.

[Mike F6F]

Light Ghost Gray wll appear too blue in a static model setting. Haze gray, or neutral gray will be a better starting point. The hull paint is semi-gloss and reflects the color of the water surrounding it. A full hull "dry dock" display won't have the water to reflect so the gray can't look very blueish.

Gunship gray works well for modern decks and non-skid. Check your references though and you'll see that it fades quickly on weather decks and Burke-class destroyers pick up a brownish-red tint on the flight deck, as a deployment goes on.

If you haven't found it yet, the photo gallery at the US Navy website: www.navy.mil, has thousands of photos that are high res and down-loadable. You cannot go wrong there.

Like all USN ships, Burke-class destroyers never keep the same antenna rigging for long. The antenna mounts will vary from ship to ship and with time on the same ship.

HAve fun.

[Fishwelding]

Light Ghost Gray wll appear too blue in a static model setting. Haze gray, or neutral gray will be a better starting point. The hull paint is semi-gloss and reflects the color of the water surrounding it. A full hull "dry dock" display won't have the water to reflect so the gray can't look very blueish.

Gunship gray works well for modern decks and non-skid. Check your references though and you'll see that it fades quickly on weather decks and Burke-class destroyers pick up a brownish-red tint on the flight deck, as a deployment goes on.

If you haven't found it yet, the photo gallery at the US Navy website: www.navy.mil, has thousands of photos that are high res and down-loadable. You cannot go wrong there.

Like all USN ships, Burke-class destroyers never keep the same antenna rigging for long. The antenna mounts will vary from ship to ship and with time on the same ship.

HAve fun.

Yea, I've been fishing around defenseimagery.mil for DDG pics. Dragon's instructions, interestingly enough, don't seem to cover a few things and even omit mentioning the addition of a fairly critical part, so I've had to consult the Navy pics for these. I'm also aware that Dragon didn't quite get some dimensions correct, but essentially, especially given it's price, it still strikes me as a decent buy.

I'll probably regret saying it, but right now this ship strikes me as unexpectedly fun to build.

[11bee]

Yea, I've been fishing around defenseimagery.mil for DDG pics. Dragon's instructions, interestingly enough, don't seem to cover a few things and even omit mentioning the addition of a fairly critical part, so I've had to consult the Navy pics for these. I'm also aware that Dragon didn't quite get some dimensions correct, but essentially, especially given it's price, it still strikes me as a decent buy.

I'll probably regret saying it, but right now this ship strikes me as unexpectedly fun to build.

Good timing on this thread, I actually picked up the Dragon 1/350 scale USS Laffey on a whim. Never done a ship model before.

These DD's are state of the art models, I can't believe how much detail Dragon has managed to included (the model includes 6 exquisitely molded crew members). I'm still going to add a Gold Medal Model PE set for the railings and finer details.

Since we are on the topic of paint, does anyone have thoughts on how to realistically portray the bottom paint? I've seen way too many models that have nicely weathered upper paint, while the hull is bright, glossy red. Just doesn't look right.

Lastly with regard to posing your model on keel blocks, many years ago I spent a week in Portland, Maine treating the ballast water from the USS Sullivans while it was in dry dock. My equipment was set up right on the dry dock itself and on my down time, I pretty much had free run of the ship. Very cool experience, I will second the comment that these ships are big. That bad boy was towering over me when I was on the floor of the dock.

Good luck on your model, I look forward to seeing some progress pictures.

John

[Fishwelding]

Good timing on this thread, I actually picked up the Dragon 1/350 scale USS Laffey on a whim. Never done a ship model before.

These DD's are state of the art models, I can't believe how much detail Dragon has managed to included (the model includes 6 exquisitely molded crew members). I'm still going to add a Gold Medal Model PE set for the railings and finer details.

Since we are on the topic of paint, does anyone have thoughts on how to realistically portray the bottom paint? I've seen way too many models that have nicely weathered upper paint, while the hull is bright, glossy red. Just doesn't look right.

Lastly with regard to posing your model on keel blocks, many years ago I spent a week in Portland, Maine treating the ballast water from the USS Sullivans while it was in dry dock. My equipment was set up right on the dry dock itself and on my down time, I pretty much had free run of the ship. Very cool experience, I will second the comment that these ships are big. That bad boy was towering over me when I was on the floor of the dock.

Good luck on your model, I look forward to seeing some progress pictures.

John

It would seem to me that the best source for "weathered" hull red would be, per your recollection of The Sullivans, ships in drydock. Navy.mil has pics of these ships in drydock, too.

I think 1/350th scale ships are now getting some real attention from the Asian model companies, and that's good. It's merely my opinion, but Dragon seems to be keeping prices in a decent range, given what they throw in the box. Adding the photoetch to their older, modern U.S. Navy stuff and then trimming the pricetag below Trumpeter's newer, admittedly more accurate Burke-class ships was I think a good trade-off. I might pick up their Spruance-class tin can kit, and possibly a CG, too, although even among warships, the Ticonderoga class ships have always struck me as tragically ugly. Their WWII DDs, while not as big, still seem to be great value for the cash, especially as Dragon is probably aware that at any given time, some retailer is offering one or another kit at a cut rate.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Fishwelding

[Fishwelding]

Keel blocks roughed in out of spruce lengths gotten from one of those inexpensive "grab bags" that you see on display at craft and hobby shops. Plank is a piece of cheap oak, gotten from the local DIY store (Home Depot). I still need to clean up all with some sanding, and probably add some wedges atop the blocks. Altogether, the whole base will probably be less than five bucks' worth of wood, stain, and varnish. But this is tedious; I've never been an enthusiastic carpenter. Oh, and as you could see, I briefly considered finishing the hull instead as a flowerpot. (Kidding. The lighting was good outside).

[11bee]

It would seem to me that the best source for "weathered" hull red would be, per your recollection of The Sullivans, ships in drydock. Navy.mil has pics of these ships in drydock, too.

I think 1/350th scale ships are now getting some real attention from the Asian model companies, and that's good. It's merely my opinion, but Dragon seems to be keeping prices in a decent range, given what they throw in the box. Adding the photoetch to their older, modern U.S. Navy stuff and then trimming the pricetag below Trumpeter's newer, admittedly more accurate Burke-class ships was I think a good trade-off. I might pick up their Spruance-class tin can kit, and possibly a CG, too, although even among warships, the Ticonderoga class ships have always struck me as tragically ugly. Their WWII DDs, while not as big, still seem to be great value for the cash, especially as Dragon is probably aware that at any given time, some retailer is offering one or another kit at a cut rate.

I agree about the source of pictures, I was just wondering about specific techniques. I've seen some pics of models that have a greenish color to them in selected areas that seems to accurately portray weathering and marine growth. I was just wondering if anyone has some specific tricks to replicate this finish.

Also agree about the renewed interest in 1/350 scale ships. The new Dragon DD's rock. I have a pipe dream that they will update their latest Gearing class DD to the coldwar FRAM version. I really, really like those ships (not sure why, they are truly ugly). The ASROC launcher, DASH helo hanger, all the cobbled on electronics, etc. make for a pretty cool looking ship, IMHO.

John

[Fishwelding]

I agree about the source of pictures, I was just wondering about specific techniques. I've seen some pics of models that have a greenish color to them in selected areas that seems to accurately portray weathering and marine growth. I was just wondering if anyone has some specific tricks to replicate this finish.

Also agree about the renewed interest in 1/350 scale ships. The new Dragon DD's rock. I have a pipe dream that they will update their latest Gearing class DD to the coldwar FRAM version. I really, really like those ships (not sure why, they are truly ugly). The ASROC launcher, DASH helo hanger, all the cobbled on electronics, etc. make for a pretty cool looking ship, IMHO.

John

Mid-Cold-War era ships, I think, are frustratingly difficult to find, unless one is willing to put down some big bucks for resin. Revell's got some rereleases now that can probably be built into nice models, but I imagine there's work involved. Dragon's recently done some 1/700 boxings with their Essex family of kits. I have an old, but reasonably big USS Ranger, originally (I think) a Revell kit that my father built back in the day, with the early 1960s air wing. I plan to refinish it at some point, but I that might be a big process, depending on how the glue has held up over four decades. I also am not sure what I'll do if I want to add railings, etc., although I think perhaps this kit was reboxed at some point with a newer air wing, and sometimes it appears aftermarket guys do photoetch even for some of the old box-scale kits. I haven't looked, yet. But I'd like to see more kits of CAs, CLs, and DDs of that era. I suspect Dragon will probably do at least one FRAM kit, but if not, I'd think at least a resin maker might find a market for a rebuild kit at a reasonable price.

Years ago, I bought on a lark Revell's old Montrose transport kit, and I suspect it could be modified into the USS Liberty (AGTR-5), but I need to source a good set of plans for Liberty.

[Mike F6F]

John,

I wouldn't go nuts on the underhull weathering. I'd streak it with some light gray paint mixed with the hull red, drybrushing, airbrush, anyway you'd want to go. I'd really underplay it.

Ships are very big things, so details are small, what would be normal for a WW2 tank in 1/35, is too much for a ship at 10 times a smaller scale. Yeah the model is bigger, but not the scale.

Since you haven't done ships before, I'd recommend a "less is better" approach. Ships are "busy" with lots of antenna rigging, weapons, etc. Folks view ships from the bottom up, but ship models from the top down. The railings, masts, antenna mounts and rigging catch the viewer's attention. Its your model, but too much on the under hull can distract from the good stuff topside.

Have fun,

Mike

[Don]

Hey this is some great stuff here folks!

I'am working on a 1/350 Dragon Ticonderoga class guided missile cruiser that I plan on making as either the USS Vincennes CG-49 (of Iran Air Flight 655 fame) or the USS Valley Forge CG-50 (sunk as part of a naval exercise off the coast of Kauai in 2006). I am using PE railings, PE helo-pad safety netting, and assorted PE to add detail to the Seahawk helo and antenna's. These Dragon kits really are very well done in my opinion.

The Tamiya Fletcher Class destroyer kit is a real gem! I wish they would make a version with the later square bridge. I think Trumpeter makes one though so it's not like there isn't one available out there.

I've always wanted to build the Tamiya 1/350 USS Missouri since I toured her a couple years ago...but she's a tad too pricey for me right now.

Anyways, good luck on the build and keep this good info flowing folks!

Cheers!

[Grey Ghost 531]

Since we are on the topic of paint, does anyone have thoughts on how to realistically portray the bottom paint? I've seen way too many models that have nicely weathered upper paint, while the hull is bright, glossy red. Just doesn't look right. John

Note that the Navy has gone to a blue anti-fouling paint.

[Don]

Interesting picture of the Port Royal there! I really need to build a kit and paint the bottom that blue color, just to mix up the sea (no pun intended) of red hull bottoms on the shelf. Also, look at the size of the sailors compared to the ship!!! Gives a great perspective of the actual size of these "smaller" surface ships.

[wh1skea]

Another good resource for images would be NavSource.org. And I'd hold off on that blue anit-fouling paint. At least until you come across pics of a DDG with it. Port Royal there is a Ticonderoga CG. Haven't come across any blue-bottomed destroyers, yet.

Edited August 31, 2010 by wh1skea

[Mike F6F]

The blue anti-fouling paint is experimental. It has only been applied to a couple of ships to see how well it works.

Mike

[Don]

Hummm, Port Royal is CG-73 and I have another 1:350 Ticonderoga Class (CG-47) in the stash. Possible conversion just to paint that neat blue on the underside... :)!

[HOLMES]

This is a really interesting thread with refs etc...I think it should be pinned as there area quite few folks now modeling warships here..

GOOD work Fishwelding....Like what you have done...

[viking73]

Good info. here, thanks for this thread. I've been thinking about taking a short break from aircraft modeling as soon as I finish my 1/72 Sword T-33 (and my Academy F-8 Crusader). I've got Trumpy's 1/700 USS Iowa and USS New Jersey in the stash that I've been eyeing recently. I bought them for no other reason than they were on sale at Hobby Lobby for 40% off and I am interested in the Iowa Class BBs. I've never built a ship model before so I'm not quite sure what to expect and I am a little nervous about it.

I also just picked up several books on USN BBs including what some would say is THE reference - "United States Battleships, 1935 - 1992" by Garzke & Dulin. Then I bough the book "Ship Models from Kits". Now I'm looking at maybe adding the Trumpy 1/700 USS South Dakota and USS Alabama (which I have visited several times) to the stash...

I do have Model Master Neutral Gray and Gunship Gray currently in the paint locker.

I think I'm in trouble already guys :) :)

-Derek

[John @ WEM]

Well, if you're concerned about accuracy, we have the modern USN paints accurately matched and available in our Colourcoats enamels:

M 03, Modern USN Haze Gray;

M 04, Modern USN Deck Gray;

M 05, Modern USN Flight Deck Gray;

M 06, Modern USN Antifouling Red.

No minimum order on paints, and we ship worldwide. There are also distributors Stateside.

I figured I'd start a master thread here for U.S. Navy surface ships, for modeling purposes. Recently, I've been contracted to build an Arleigh Burke kit, and I confess I know very little about modeling modern U.S. Navy ships. This is not out of prejudice toward the subject, but simply that I've just never gotten around to that neighborhood of modeling before. In fact, I'm somewhat enthused by the opportunity.

In fishing around the web last night, I noted that it seemed like a lot of people liked the Modelmaster "Ghost Grays" for the U.S. Navy's "haze gray," or vertical surface gray paint. Modelers seemed to vary on deck colors, with a rough-but-not-complete consensus forming around Gunship Gray. I wanted to get opinions here, however, before stocking up the requisite paint.

Also, I note that Flight I Arleigh Burke tin cans appear to have a helicopter pad, but no hanger aboard. I gather that this means these ships do not carry a permanent helicopter detachment?