O/T- wierd question

[caudleryan]

This is a wierd queston to ask, but does anyone own a Kirby vacuumn cleaner? The reason is that I wanted to get your opinion on it. Be it an older model or the newest Sentria. About a month ago, I was recently hired by Kirby to set up in-home demonstrations and to try to sell them to the customers. About a week ago, I left and for good reason, too.

It all started going down hill when I found out that I wouldn't be getting paid for the three day training. I should have left right then and there. But, I hung on to the job because I needed the money really bad. Here I was, going out into the 110

degree heat (at that time...) in a dress shirt and tie, knocking on people's houses. This was my biggest complaint against them. When I was interviewed, they didn't tell me I would be doing this. I was told that my appointments would be set up for me and I did not have to worry about running out of them. This was a straight up lie. Every single day, I would have to use my own car, wasting my own gas, and go out and knock on doors, hoping to get in to a house to do a demo. What was even worse is that when I did get into a house, my supervisor would just leave me there and then use MY car to do his own personal errands. So, that way, I was guarenteed to stay there and I would have absolutly no way of getting back if something came up, like an emergancy. Basically, I was stuck there until he came back in MY car to pick me up.

He left me there with no water, so I was dehydrated all the time and I actually came near to passing out in a customer's

home. At that time, I had no money at all to buy a drink, so I was screwed. I wasn't allowed to take anything to drink from the customer because of their policy. Liability issue, I guess. So, I spent the entire day and walked up and down streets,

knocking on doors, hoping to get in. So much for appointments being set up for me. I had to do three demos a day, and it

was very demanding. And here in Alabama, it gets HOT in August. Not to mention the humidity. I would go up and down streets from 10am to about 9pm every day. Again, I should have quit. All of this gruelling work for $950 every two weeks.

In order for me to get the $950, I had to do 24 demos in two weeks. When you have to make your own appintments and go knocking on doors, it's damn near impossible. So, two weeks passed, and I didn't get paid. I asked why and was told I wouldn't see a penny of it because I didn't meet their expectations. Now, these vacuumns are very expensive. The Sentria

is over two thousand dollars. And with the APR over three years on a payment plan would add up to over three thousand dollars. Yeah, try selling a customer on that! I sold three, but not at the full price. So, I didn't even get paid my full commissions on those. I got paid 10% because I didn't sell them at full price. And to add salt to the injury, my supervisor was a complete @$$hole. If I didn't make a sell, he told me that I should quit and I should find another job. If I did make a sale, but not at full price, he told me that he could sell one in his sleep at full price. I joke you not. When he said that, that was when I went ahead and quit. I quit about a week after my last sale. So far, I have only gotten paid half of what they owe me on that sale for my commission. I have threatened them with legal action and was going to sue them when they called me today and told me that they have some of my money.

Why am I telling you all of this? I am warning you of these con artists. They conned me out of my money, my time, my gas,

and my humanity. They conned the customers out of their money for a vacuumn they couldn't afford. They are extremely persuasive and will not stop until you give in. They make the customers feel uncomfortable in their own homes and make them feel violated. I know this first hand because I did it. But, I didn't know any better because I was taught this way during the training. I should have researched them before I went to the interview. I found out on Consumer Report.

Thirty pages worth of nothing but bad things about this company, from the customers and employees. So the reason for

this lengthy post is to get your opinion on this company, your experience with them and their product. I'm going to fill out a well detailed complaint against them to OSHA and the Better Business Bureau. Thank you for reading and happy modelling as always.

RYAN.

[HOLMES]

WOW RYAN...that is one awful thing to have taken place for you.Its not worth working for them for sure and

to say that you had to threaten then to get the money owed is bad too.

Do you have something like TRADING STANDARDS where they investigate bad working practices... is that what OSHA is like....

....I would log everything before you go and see them before you file your complaintt so you have all your

facts to hand and can just reel them off what is required to quicken the pace of the complaint.

Best of luck and hope you get the rest of the money owed RYAN.

HOLMES

Edited September 4, 2010 by HOLMES

[caudleryan]

Sort of. The are for things like this. Things like unsafe work conditions, payroll disputes, unfair business practices, ect.

Same thing for the Better Business Bureau.

RYAN.

[caudleryan]

Have a good look at this site. I would suggest reading as much as you can on Kirby.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/in_home/kirby.htm

RYAN.

[VADM Fangschleister]

I own a Kirby. Great vacuum but I bought it at a pawn shop.

My wife and I had a brand new Kirby that we bought when we moved into our new house. The guy came out and did the demo but we already knew we wanted a Kirby...and told him "no demo...please" but he did one anyhow. I have no idea why.

In any case some time before that, years in fact when I was unemployed I answered an ad for Electrolux. I sat through a whole day of their spiel and at the end there were two people of the original 20 left. I simply told the guy at the end...well, I can't tell you what I told the guy at the end but not in the whole day did he mention that he wanted us to sell vacuums door-to-door. However, I figured it out after the first 15 minutes of him blabbing and demo-ing the thing. Being unemployed, I had nothing better to do. But no, I wouldn't do that. He told various lies and made-up stories. I just stared at him.

Ryan, I am sorry for your troubles. Tough times out there, to be sure but you can keep your pride and you needn't put up with such abuse. Taking your car was about the cheesiest thing I've ever heard anyone do. If it were me, I'm afraid the guy would be out of a ride back and any/all Kirby equipment would be left with him. And I'd take his cellphone and crumple it into little bits as well. That is, if the EMT's were able to let him walk.

Keep the faith. I understand your travails. Truly, I do.

[ikar]

When I first got out of theAir Force I tried them too. During the training something didn't seem right, like the price of these machines for one. I was unemployed and couldn't see paying that kind of money for something that couldn't fly and shoot down a mig. I ended up quiting before the training was finished. I remember the manager standing there with his big gold rings on as I explained that I was leaving and he told me that I would realize that I couldn't afford to pass up an opportunity like this and that I'd be back. I told him that I wouldn't and left, never to see him again.

I realized was that I wasn't cut out to be a salesman and couldn't pressure people to but one of these things. Since I was in High School I had been involved in public service, starting with being on a volunteer rescue squad and when I got drafted and went into the Air Force instead of the Army I became a cop. I was looking into this possibility after school when the draft got me.If I hadn't agreed not to get into a police car after the Air Force I'd probably still be doing that.

[Jinxter13]

I wish you had put out feelers here, I could have told you, we owned one. It worked great and parts were not that hard to find at any vac/sewing machine shop. However the salesperson we bought it from told us what a slipshod outfit they were and he only stayed for the same reasons you did. I knew of how good they were and wanted to get one for SWMBO, so we bought one from him partially for him to get a sale and SWMBO to get a real good product. My brother in law also worked for Kirby, he quit after a few weeks. It seems all of his appts were ones he called and over half were family members. Yeah Kirby is a really supportive group for it's employees. It may be different in other states, but is seems Bama and Cali work the same.

[SBARC]

A high school friend tried selling them as well.......he managed to sell one to his Mom....then he quit.

Their sales tactics remind me of the sales tactics used for timeshares....where they fly you to some isolated little island for a "free" vacation.....then proceed to do a sales pitch for a timeshare. Their tactics are to basically to keep doing the sales pitch until you give in and agree to buy one. I've never had first hand experience of these time share sales tactics.....but I have heard the same type of story more than once.

[GreyGhost]

Glad you got out of that Ryan ...

Dateline or 20/20 had done a show about Kirby years ago telling about how harsh their tactics are ...

The vacuums themselves are pretty good, they should really let the product sell it self ...

Gregg

[Spook498]

I went to their sales pitch once when I was a college student, and needed a part time gig. After the first afternoon, I decided I would rather be a mech than a Kirby person.

Keep in mind, the people you worked for arent "Kirby" the company. They are most likely a company that has a distributor ship, and they go door to door selling themselves as Kirby people. Ergo, you could quite possibly be considered a subcontractor, paid a % of your sales, vice being a paid hourly employee. As such, you may have difficulty collecting money. You should check with your local state to see if there is a lawsuit, or at least complaints, regarding "employee" vs. contractor status.

As for the vacuum itself, it is a good product. My parents had one (my mom still has it 20 years later) and now, we have one in our home. (My wife hates it, and would rather have a Dyson Ball) But as for their tactics, its a case of people taking advantage of other people for personal gain.

[The Rat]

The vacuums themselves are pretty good, they should really let the product sell it self ...

Gregg

That says it all GG.

[ross blackford]

A good friend of mine bought one of these machines, not sure (neither do I care) what model it was but I was forever replacing the drive belt, which to me seemed undersized for the job it was being asked to do, however the price certainly wasn't undersized, either for the machine or for parts here in Oz. On top of all that at that time she was unemployed herself and paid over A$2,500 dollars for this thing which she couldn't afford at the time. I told her she was nuts and if I'd been there at the time the salesman wouldn't have got past the front flyscreen door.

On top of all this the disdtributor had rented a large old 2 story house just up the street from my friend's house and the noise that came from there every morning (except Sunday) at about 9.30 was incredible as the sales managers whipped up the troops for the day's work. In my younger days I'd been involved in churches where the same emotional blackmail techniques were used to get young people to submit to the head honchos. You did the right thing getting out Ryan. These mobs promise the world and deliver very little. People like you and I are probably better off working for hourly rate wages than "living the dream" especially if it's someone else's dream and they're the only ones getting the benefit from all our hard work.

Please don't anyone get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with having dreams and I know a couple who own a resturant in Newcastle which is their dream and who always give their employees their rightful entitlements and generous sick leave. They work on the theory that a happy employee is a productive employee. I myself have a dream for the latter years of my life, that's why I'm doing a photo course at the moment.

,

Ross.

[Andy Gudbergsson]

Me and me x-wife Gail a few years ago bought a kirby through a salesman that came to our house. Prior to the scheduled appointment we had received a phone setting up the appointment. But having said that, we didn't know what the appointment was about, but they promised a $500.00 shopping spree from an catalog that the salesman produced at the time of the appointment that you could buy from if you accepted the appointment. So we did.

The salesman came over and we bought the Kirby, but I don't think we ever bought anything from that catalog.I don't know why, or if we did buy anything I don't remember it.

I have the Kirby now and it's a great vacuum cleaner even has attachments for carpet shampooing and cleaning.

I always was under the impression that those appointments were set up in advance, I guess not. Maybe they are set up in advance once you prove your worth within the Kirby inner circle, if you will. But going door to door to sell a vacuum cleaner to prove your worth is not worth it. I certainly would not do it.

My own gas, wear and tear on my car and the frustarations that come with trying to be a door to door salesman without any advance appointments. That's not right.

Having read all the posts in this thread, I have concluded that I would much rather be a used car salesman that a Kirby salesman.

Ryan sorry to hear of your problems. May this be a lesson to us all.

Andy G

[William G]

We had a Kirby when I was a kid back in San Diego CA.

Thought that it was the best vac on the planet back then

I also went to the training and all for them back in 1992 after I got out of the AF..

Did the training, went through the demos did 3 of them before I realized I was not cut out to sell something if I wasn't getting paid for my efforts.

So I went to work as an asst mgr for a C-store. then other fun things...

Trust me Ryan when I say I know how you feel...

William G

[BrittMac]

I have no opinion on the vac itself, but a VERY low opinion on the sales people they employ in my area. We arrest a good portion of them. Really. The salespersons here are employed by outside "marketing" companys, and are driven around in a van and dropped off in neighborhoods all over the area. The citizens in my area call us over and over because they think it is "suspicious" or they complain that the salespeople are far too pushy and don't take no for an answer. And people freak out about a white van creeping around the neighborhood, so we get tons of calls on them too. They try and get around the "no soliciting" signs by saying that they are not selling anything, but are simply setting up appointments. BS.

I suspect that some of the more unsavory sellers are casing out houses, but that is just my opinion.

I recommend never letting in a stranger into your house like this. It is one thing to make an appointment, which they WILL do, but completely different to let some unknown and uninvited person into your home.

Oh, and I found out that there are Kirby Repo people. This girl told me that she can get $500 for a repo on a friggin vacuum cleaner. I am unsure of the truth of that one, and she was pretty shady. I had just stopped her after she was literally chased by a citizen on a country road.

All of these people are so shady to me. Oh, ask to see their business license. In AL, you are supposed to carry a copy with you, and in some cities/counties you have to have one specific to that area.

Brandon

[Steve N]

What is it with folks gravitating to vacuum cleaner sales after getting out of the military? I buddy of mine tried it briefly when he left the USAF back in the mid 80s, in his case selling Filter Queens. I don't know if he ever got as far as an actual sales demo..he left very quickly after being creeped out by the quasi-religious fervor of the sales rally/indoctrination session. From his description, it sounded like an old fashioned fundamentalist tent revival, but with Jesus replaced by a vacuum cleaner.

SN

[tornado64]

they were once here in the uk but they only in reality managed a couple of years .

many disputes about employment laws , hopeless company with an hopeless product !!

at the time they were here dyson released thier cyclonic vacum cleaner that was ten times the machine for 1/30th of the price

you can pick them up here on boot sales for thier true value , the going rate for the scrap metal !!

the final nail in thier coffin was our main t.v. company doing a consumer programme on them warning people to avoid them like the plague

as a customer or an employee !!!

[ross blackford]

:wacko:, Steve N, You've hit the nail on the head mate. I wasn't going to say this earlier but the racket that came from that old house I mentioned earlier was just like an old time pentecostal revivalist tent meeting, and in my younger years I went to plenty of them. Some of the young "failures" or "unconverted" who passed through that place said it was just like a tent meeting and one even echoed your exact words, that Jesus was replaced by a vacuum cleaner. There's a word for that, idolatry. This girl said she'd even seen girls younger than herself "rolling" on the floor laughing hysterically for absolutely no reason, good or bad.

When I got out of the NSW Ambulance Service I went door to door selling security systems. At least they had the courtesy and guts to tell me it was door to door before I signed on. I didn't do too badly out of it but then the intimidating tactics (illegal in Australia) started. I'm much happier to be on the other side of the security game than that side. We still have to monitor alarms, both intruder and equipment alarms and cameras etc and there are specific classes of security licence in NSW for different types of security work, including sales. As I said before, Ryan did the right thing. Oh, and the only ones to be driving Porsches in Newcastle were the head honchos, most of the foot soldiers were university students who arrived at the railway station across the road from the 'big house' as my friend and I used to call it by train from wherever.

,

Ross.

Edited September 5, 2010 by ross blackford

[Big Nick]

Back in 1999 I had an interview with a UK Kirby seller in Welwyn Garden City. There were 15 recruits there and they started by giving a demo of the machine. It looked like a relic from 1950 at a 2050 price and the talk seemed slightly false even with some fancy tricks like sucking the tobacco out of a cigarette leaving the paper intact. After nearly an hour of this we were called in for individual interviews.

During the talk I'd been looking around the tiny and cramped offices in a small industrial unit and watching the other sales reps who were all blinged up with oversized gold watches and rings and jewellery, this before bling was so well known to be bling! The guys didn't seem trustworthy with slicked back hair, sharp suits, gold pens in pockets and all that, bit like Gordon Gekko!. And why would an internationally acclaimed company have such rubbish offices?

At the interview I simply said I couldn't do door-to-door sales and left to another interview that afternoon which paid a lot more and turned into a semi-career for me. A little while later my friend told me he'd done the same thing but lasted 3 weeks before quitting with half the promised pay.

You live and you learn.

[caudleryan]

The sad part of this is that every single word that everyone has said is true to the letter. And the saco-religious meetings were just scary. We would do a sales meeting in the morning and the first thing they would have us do is yell this:

BOY AM I EXCITED!

BOY AM I EXCITED!

BOY AM I EXCITED!

They had us yell so loud that the next door business actually came over and told us to pipe down and he was calling the police. Sure enough, they came over and gave the head jerk a warning. It was like that every day, yelling that phrase,

and singing some stupind songs from a Kirby songbook. I swear to the higher one that it was just like a revival in there.

Like I said, I'm glad I left. Just wished I had left sooner.

RYAN.

[MikeC]

Had a demo once. They did not like it because I would not "do as I was told" - for example I refused point-blank to allow them to vacuum the mattress on the bed to "demonstrate how dirty it is". I also worked out that for the price they were asking I could buy a brand-new ordinary and perfectly good vacuum cleaner every year for about twenty years.

Interesting to observe the sales techniques used though, and they did shampoo the carpet in the lounge.

@Big Nick: "... It looked like a relic from 1950 at a 2050 price ...": my thoughts exactly sir.

[Phantom ordie]

I would never purchase anything from a door to door salesman or from a phone solicitor.

[Bonehammer73]

I never joined the army but after finishing my PhD I was out of a job for so long I took up "call center" duty for them. (I had been hoping beyond hope that a call center is the place where people call to get help with the product, not the place where you call people to help them get the product). The offices were in a building three doors down from mine but clearly they did not have the same cleaners. They consisted of two squalid, empty rooms with outmoded furniture, the walls yellowed from years of cheap cigarettes and an acrid stench of second-hand smoke. The only thing that did not look like it had been salvaged from the Soviet Army were these ridiculous motivational posters on the wall - not that the Soviet Army did not have ridiculous motivational posters of their own, mind you, but they were about people with monkey wrenches of Freudian proportions rather than vacuum cleaners. I lasted a grand total of four hours and no one made a sale appointment that day. The female manager came in the room once to give a bollocking to the phone operators because of that, and she might have restrained herself because she did not want to scare the new girl.

A good product ought to sell itself, by word-of-mouth (now they hire people to do the same and call it viral marketing). Is the Kirby good? Yes. Is it worth 4,000 euros? **** no. In recent news, I heard it is more about 350, in line with the rest of the market. The news said how five managers have been indicted in Italy for, among other things, flogging their employees.

People recruited through newspaper ads, which did not specify which kind of jobs they would be doing, were then trained and turned into telephone callers or salespeople: every morning, at the start of their working day, they were "boosted" by the "successful" ones with national anthems, singing and slogans and prodded to achieve impossible results, that would be repayed with holidays in exotic locations. Before reaching this target they received insignificant gadgets or certificates of praise signed by the company, but also floggings on the legs or humiliating talking-tos in front ot the other employees when their appointments were deemed insufficient.

The national Consumers Association and a few ex employees denounced the situation to the authorities, telling of exhausting shifts at the call center (up to 14 hours a day, with 30' for lunch, a few minutes for toilet breaks), physical and psychological abuse, and motivational morning meeting in a soundproofed hall.

Kirby could sell their € 350-worth vacuum for € 350 plus whatever margin they decide, and they'd be flying off the warehouses. What they have decided to do is to squeeze whatever they can from their own employees so that they pressure relatives and friends into getting something that they do not want or need, just so that Joe can fill his monthly quota. Only, their particular Ponzi scheme is past its prime; everyone knows someone who knows someone who knows that the Kirby isn't that big of a deal. The current managers "made it" not because they have brass balls but because they were selling Kirbys when they were a novelty.

And don't get me started on singing hymns before starting work... that's like pretending that a wheelbarrow will be more like a Ferrari because you painted it red.

[Eastern]

.............................

Kirby could sell their € 350-worth vacuum for € 350 plus whatever margin they decide, and they'd be flying off the warehouses. What they have decided to do is to squeeze whatever they can from their own employees so that they pressure relatives and friends into getting something that they do not want or need, just so that Joe can fill his monthly quota. Only, their particular Ponzi scheme is past its prime; everyone knows someone who knows someone who knows that the Kirby isn't that big of a deal. The current managers "made it" not because they have brass balls but because they were selling Kirbys when they were a novelty.

And don't get me started on singing hymns before starting work... that's like pretending that a wheelbarrow will be more like a Ferrari because you painted it red.

350 Euros?! Damn, in Russia thay sell it for 135.000 rub (4400 $)!! But what really incredible, is that a lot of people buy it! Those damn bas##rds are so persuasive and manipulative that folks get them the money easily but then, being awaken from the hypnosis, blame themselves for what they did.

Alexander.

[ross blackford]

, My own opinion is that the whole door to door and phone soliciting things are well beyond their use by date and as for companies selling products at hugely inflated prices, if someone buys one that's their problem. There's a house down my street that used to have a small notice next to the gate that read "Hawkers and canvassers need not call". In NSW if you open your door to a door to door salesperson and tell them whatever it is they're sellling (product, religion, service etc) you are not interested in it and they are to quit your premises immediately and shut the door in their face and they knock again you can call the police because they have just committed an offence. It's actually against the law here not to leave a persons premises immediately if they tell you to and we don't have to ask them nicely, we can tell them to go.

The attitude that a man's home is his castle is slowly creeping back into our society here, thank goodness. There are also time limits on door to door and phone solicitations, 10.00 am to 8.00 pm. I was sitting down eating my dinner one night after an unproductive day on the road and at 8.45 pm there's a knock on the front door. It's a mobile phone carrier salesman. I tell him "I'm quite happy with my current telco thank you, and I'm in the middle of eating my dinner, so I'm going to ask you to leave me in peace." He then goes on to ask me if I want to save some money or not. At this stage I ask him if he has been given any instruction in the law concerning door to door sales. He asks why I am asking him that. I reply "Because you are out calling after 8.00pm. I'm a door to door salesman myself and our boss has told us what the law states and we get reprimanded if there are any complaints from customers." He then tells me he is just trying to make some money. I sympathise with him and he still gets angry so I bid tell him good night and close the door.

As he walks down my front path his mobile rings and next thing I am listening to one end of a flaming argument about him not having made any sales that day. What a way to try to make a living. Don't get me started on companies flogging off their overpriced products to people in developing countries or to people who obviously can't afford them, want them or even need them, that's a whole other argument for another day.

,

Ross.

Edited September 5, 2010 by ross blackford