B-17 de-icer boots.

[Stefan buysse]

Hi,

Something I've read about B-17's is that crews sometimes/often emoved the rubber de-icer boots from their aircraft.

The reason was apparantly that they were often damaged by Flak and then became the source of drag which slowed the aircraft down.

I have two questions about this.

*Did they really do that? The equipment was installed there for a reason, ice on the wings will make you crash.

*Do modellers replicate the removal of the boots on their B-17's?

How? I presume in 1/72 one could just paint the area where the boots had been in the colour of the rest of the neigbouring area instead of black? Do people who build in 1/48 scale do anything more elaborate?

Does the removal of the rubber expose parts of the de-icer system?

Cheers, Stefan.

[rightwinger26]

your assumption is correct.......the boots were removed because of battle damage drag. I am almost 100% positive they were faired over with aluminum panels shaped to fit the leading edge, because all pictures I have seen the leading edges are bright and the shine. The person to ask about the exact fairing method, his handle is 100bg, he has really good knowledge, info and pictures of the fort, in fact I'm SURE he'll see this

[Stefan buysse]

Thanks, Rightwinger.

That was fast.

Having kept an eye on some B-17 topics here lately, it indeed seemed the right place to ask about it.

The shaped replacement panels do make sense.

One thing that I had been a bit puzzled about was the B-17F "Miami clipper" from Hasegawa whose instructions show the area of the boots to be bright yellow. I thought such paint wasn't going to last on rubber boots, but they would on replacement panels.

It still seems like a dangerous practice though.

Cheers, Stefan.

[rightwinger26]

look for the thread "b-17 hybrid" there are a ton of good photos and reference material in there, we post on it all the time. Not sure if you aware but there is going to be a Fortress GB starting Jan 1, maybe, its in planning right now.

[terryt]

your assumption is correct.......the boots were removed because of battle damage drag. I am almost 100% positive they were faired over with aluminum panels shaped to fit the leading edge, because all pictures I have seen the leading edges are bright and the shine. The person to ask about the exact fairing method, his handle is 100bg, he has really good knowledge, info and pictures of the fort, in fact I'm SURE he'll see this

I'm pretty sure the the deicer boots were applied over the leading edges of the the wing and tail surfaces. The leading edges were not faired over with aluminum panels.

[Stefan buysse]

Yes, those are the threads I've been looking at.

I'm pretty excited about the GB.

Cheers, Stefan.

[Mark M.]

It's also plane-specific... Not all were removed. It wasn't a general order or anything. For example, Ruby's Raiders apparently had the boots on the leading edges into 1945, and it was flying over Italy.

When in doubt, find a photo of the plane you're modeling.

[100th BG]

Terryt is correct, the boots were applied over the leading edge. They were rubber with a series of bladders inside which allowed them to be inflated and deinflated (is that a word?). The metal under the boot was not painted to allow it to move around some as it cycled. So if they were removed from a camoed aircraft, the area would be natural metal. As for Miami Clipper, I do not know why the leading edge would have been painted yellow. It would not have been painted over the boots, but perhaps they painted the exposed metal with yellow chromate to protect it or maybe it was just painted yellow so the crew chief could ID his bird at a distance (this is reportedly why "Shilaylee" of the 100th BG sported white wall tires). The edge of the boot had holes in it and when the metal fairing strips were screwed down, the boots were held in place. The first picture shows how the boot was attached to the tubes that were used to inflate/deflate and in the area circled, you can just make out the holes for securing it. The second diagram shows the left outboard boot (item 1) and the fairing strips that held it in place (items 3 thru 11). Hope this makes sense! Mark M is also correct, it was a common practice but by all means not all inclusive.

Edited September 14, 2010 by 100th BG

[Stefan buysse]

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

Karl,

Your post alone showed me more about de-icer boot details than I had seen before.

Cheers, Stefan.

[rightwinger26]

Terryt is correct, the boots were applied over the leading edge. They were rubber with a series of bladders inside which allowed them to be inflated and deinflated (is that a word?). The metal under the boot was not painted to allow it to move around some as it cycled. So if they were removed from a camoed aircraft, the area would be natural metal. As for Miami Clipper, I do not know why the leading edge would have been painted yellow. It would not have been painted over the boots, but perhaps they painted the exposed metal with yellow chromate to protect it or maybe it was just painted yellow so the crew chief could ID his bird at a distance (this is reportedly why "Shilaylee" of the 100th BG sported white wall tires). The edge of the boot had holes in it and when the metal fairing strips were screwed down, the boots were held in place. The first picture shows how the boot was attached to the tubes that were used to inflate/deflate and in the area circled, you can just make out the holes for securing it. The second diagram shows the left outboard boot (item 1) and the fairing strips that held it in place (items 3 thru 11). Hope this makes sense! Mark M is also correct, it was a common practice but by all means not all inclusive.

I knew you would be making an apperance soon Fortress fans are taking over ARC!!!

[Kostucha]

I knew you would be making an apperance soon Fortress fans are taking over ARC!!!

shhhhhhhh... it's our secret until after the GB is complete at least... and then! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha...

But, de-icer boots! That's a lot of great info for sure!

Cheers,

Mark.

[Maharrin]

On the monogram 1:48 B-17G, there are panel lines for the de-icers. My subject is NMF and did not have them so I know it will be all aluminum, but my question is should those panel lines then be sanded off or would there still be a panel showing on the leading edge?

[B-17 guy]

Sanded off. Without the rubber boot there, there would not be the raised lines that you see on the kit pieces.

Out of curiosity, what subject are you building? We have a B-17 group build going on here. http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showforum=174

Feel free to look around there or join in the build.

Edited September 3, 2011 by B-17 guy

[Maharrin]

I've been following the group build - really impressive stuff! I'm building a B-17G from the 100th BG / 351st BS out of Thorpe Abbotts called The Latest Rumor. She made well over 100 combat missions, and over 20 with my Father-in-Law at her tail gun. It's an early and heavily weathered NMF, which I don't have much experience with, but am looking forward to doing. I'm just getting started, so might not make the GB deadline but I'll post some pix there on my progress to get some comments.