Model Master Enamels

[brad4321]

I have used almost exclusively Tamiya acrylics for my models. (airbrush) I am working on a SU - 27 and Tamiya doesn't produce the appropriate colors. My local hobby store carries the Model Master enamels which include Flanker specific colors. So what advice can you give me? OK to spray them over Tamiya primer? Drying time? Do they accept an oil wash well? Anything I need to know? I have almost zero experience with enamels. Thanks.

[Kahunaminor]

Brad,

Welcome to the Forums.

Whilst I speak only from my own experience, in general use I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the MM enamels. Spraying enamels is very similar to spraying acrylics except there is no need for a "retarder" to stop drying in the brush. They are "harder" than acrylics when dry. Drying time depends on how thick a coat you apply but I suggest dry to touch in about 1hr and completely set up in about 5hrs (I am conservative - too many fingerprints)They go fine over Tamiya primer but you will need to thin them appropriately to spray through an A/B (70/30 at < 20psi). Once gloss coated they do well under an oil wash. Cleaning is a little more involved but use good enamel thinners to clean your A/B after each usage and a major clean at the end of each build will see you okay. I cannot speak to the accuracy of the colours you are after but I find the majority of the MM enamels "close". Others will be able to provide further.

Regards

Edited October 20, 2010 by Kahunaminor

[toadwbg]

I used MM several years before I switched to acrylic (mostly Tamiya), sort of your situation in reverse!

I think MM thins fine with odorless mineral spirits, I used the same for cleanup.

You also might consider trying to mix yor Russian color out of Tamiya if you've got a good color chip to reference.

[Sebastijan]

I use mostly MM enamels and I am very pleased with them. However the colours you are looking at are wrong - you'd be better off mixing your own...

[brad4321]

I use mostly MM enamels and I am very pleased with them. However the colours you are looking at are wrong - you'd be better off mixing your own...

I think I will just mix my own. BUT I find it very hard to believe that after a custom mix, pre shading, post shading, future, oil wash, flat coat that I will end up with a more accurate color than what Model Master has.

[strictlyscale]

...you will need to thin them appropriately to spray through an A/B (70/30 at < 20psi).

I'm assuming you mean 70% paint, correct? Do you use the Testors spray thinner? Same ratio? I'm looking to spray some of the MM enamel RAF colors. I always find getting the ratio correct is tough and a little trial and error, but after reading your post I may be trying to spray at too high a pressure (30-35psi).

[Kahunaminor]

I'm assuming you mean 70% paint, correct? Do you use the Testors spray thinner? Same ratio? I'm looking to spray some of the MM enamel RAF colors. I always find getting the ratio correct is tough and a little trial and error, but after reading your post I may be trying to spray at too high a pressure (30-35psi).

Hi Sean,

Yeah that is the ratio paint/thinner. At least that is what I aim for. Others thin as much as 50/50 with success. I think it is an eyeball thing and I think the enamels are a bit more "forgiving". You will certainly know if it is too much either way .I use Testors thinners in the big blue can. There used to be a black can of "airbrush thinners" but I canot find it and I believe they have discontinued it. Some of the guys I know successfully use generic lacquer thinners from hardware shops as a cost cutting measure. Generally it is a matter of adding drops of thinner, mixing, more drops of thinner, mixing to get about the right consistency of "milk" as all the experts say. It really is a trial and error system. You may have to fiddle with it. The lower air pressure should help as I have found it okay.

Regards

[balls47]

I use MM enamels almost exclusively. I thin with lacquer thinner to the consistency of about 2% milk. I don't have an exact ratio. I mix with my eyes, and give it a test run on a test model. If using flat, the paint should look damp when it hits the model and then seem to dry before your eyes. I let it cure for at least 2 days. I then (usually) switch to acrylics, starting with Future, as my finish coats for applying and sealing decals. I then apply a final clear coat to seal any weathering and give the model the sheen that it needs (flat, satin, gloss, etc.)

---IMPORTANT---

Now think SAFETY! Enamels and lacquers are flammable and more toxic than acrylics. If you can smell it, it's getting into your system. I wear a 3M, dual cartridge, organic respirator. These can be purchased at any auto parts store, Lowe's type stores, Wal Mart type stores, etc. Make sure that you have adequate ventilation. I have a home-made paint booth with a squirrel-cage fan on top. If you make your own paint booth, make sure that your fan is on the outside of the booth, because you are dealing with flammable products. I paint in my basement. I bought one of those cheap basement window protector thingys(outside) and run my flexible dryer ventilation line out the window and through a hole that I cut in the plastic window protector.

P.S. Remember this: acrylics are toxic. They are just not as toxic as enamels and lacquers. Would you want to take a big, ole chug of Tamiya paint? Not me!!!

[foxmulder_ms]

"White ensign" has enamels colors for Flanker, too. I use them and like them. You might need to add a little bit white to two blueish colors but gray one is almost spot on. Although it takes them ages to dry. With MM Flanker colors you need to add tons of white for two blueish-gray colors and its gray one is completely "wrong" in my opinion.

Edited October 22, 2010 by foxmulder_ms

[Jay Chladek]

I've used Model Master enamels, acrylics and Tamiya acrylics side by side for years in my airbrush. I have never had an adverse reaction between any of the products. My average thinning ratio is about 50/50 for the enamels using the Testors airbrush thinner. I tried mineral spirits once a long time ago and wasn't happy with the results. BTW, if you also have access to Testors Model Master acryl paints, they work very well with Tamiya brand acrylic thinner (way better then the Testors acrylic thinner).

As for the color question, granted I don't do much with Soviet jets these days, but in my experience the Russians have had SO MANY color variations to their jets, both in combination with new colorschemes on new jets, one off experimental schemes, repaints in the field and the fading of paint on ones in the field that while the Model Master shades may not be accurate, chances are there are Flankers out there that are at least close to those colors. Third world countries can add their own spin as well as they might have access to both the original factory shades and western ones that look similar, yet aren't exact matches. Pre-shading, post shading, hard winters and other things can also cause color variations. Frontline Russian combat units don't tend to be as anal about colors as western forces (land based ones anyway, Navy jets sometimes get spot painted with off the shelf spray paints for corrosion control). When the jets go back for depot maintenance, then I can see them being repainted in proper factory colors.

If the colors are available to you and you want to use them, I say use them. Maybe if they are off, chances are not many people are going to catch that unless you say something.

[Sebastijan]

Jay I pay a lot of interest into Russian/Soviet aviation and have seen tons of Su-27 photos but haven't seen any of them remotly similar to the darker two MM colours... but I noticed, that they just might be suitable for the splinter NSAWC Tomcat...

[Jay Chladek]

Jay I pay a lot of interest into Russian/Soviet aviation and have seen tons of Su-27 photos but haven't seen any of them remotly similar to the darker two MM colours... but I noticed, that they just might be suitable for the splinter NSAWC Tomcat...

I got it. If they are THAT far off then I see your point.

Is there anything in the MM color line that does look close though? Reason I ask is a lot of us may not necessarily want to order colors that aren't available at the local hobby shop. Yes there are always more accurate colors out there, but the vast majority of us prefer to find something close since it is cheap, available and we can usually get it right away as opposed to having to wait a few days. And if we run out, we can always grab another bottle locally.

As such, the "may not be right, but it looks close enough, it is cheap and available" route tends to be what many of us take.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Jay Chladek

[Aaronw]

Any particular reason you want to mix enamels and Tamiya? There are other acrylic options besides Tamiya. I understand some prefer enamels which I can understand as personal preference, but it seems kind of odd to mix enamels and acrylics adding to your logistics train.

[Jay Chladek]

Mix with each other in a bottle? Nope. As I understand it though, it is somewhat possible with lacquer thinner as the lacquer is hotter then the original solvents of the paint. I've seen some modelers thin metallics with lacquer for instance since it cuts the drying time down by a lot and the paint ends up harder and much less likely to rub off.

But I use both side by side. For one thing, when I airbrush, I sometimes switch from one to the other as usually it means I can short cut an airbrush cleaning step a little. So after one color (say an enamel) I can flush the brush with thinner and then go to acrylic and I know that if there might be a tiny drop of dried enamel paint left in the airbrush, the acrylic is not going to soften it and turn my next color a different shade from what I want. Using an acrylic base color can also help keep that base coat from getting softened if I apply an enamel wash over the top (or go with an acrylic wash over the top of an enamel painted surface, unless the acrylic is fully cured after a couple days).

There can be other benefits for doing this too. Take Italian camouflage, which can be very tough to do. I've seen modelers do the base tan color in one type of paint and then switch to the other type for the accent color. Then, if you make a mistake that has to be removed, the thinner for one paint will not attack the other. So you can usually strip the mistake area off and if you are careful, you may not have to repaint.

As I like to say, it works for me. Not everyone has to do things the same and indeed some things may not work exactly the same for different people. But, I've done it and like the results. The main reason I haven't gotten rid of enamels entirely is because Tamiya doesn't make all the shades I want and neither does Testors in their Model Master Acryl line. Plus I still have a lot of old enamel bottles I've invested heavily in and if they are still good, I keep using them.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Jay Chladek

[Dave Shaw]

I loves me some MM Enamels, but one thing that is hardly ever mentioned is, don't pour your thinned paint back into your paint bottle after airbrushing or the next time you go to use it you will find a gloppy unusable mess. Only mix what you need and pour the excess into a “sludge jarâ€

[foxmulder_ms]

I loves me some MM Enamels, but one thing that is hardly ever mentioned is, don't pour your thinned paint back into your paint bottle after airbrushing or the next time you go to use it you will find a gloppy unusable mess. Only mix what you need and pour the excess into a “sludge jarâ€

Are u using testor's thinner? This has never happened to me.

[Satelliteman]

AKAH has the right colors.

Can you tell me where you buy these paints?

TIA

Gary

eta: I thin MM with 'medium drying lacquer thinner', about $15.00/gal at WalMart. I also use Floquil Dio Sol (which is now impossible to find)

Edited October 27, 2010 by Satelliteman

[David Hingtgen]

IIRC, the MM (and White Ensign) colors were matched to a non-standard demo repaint at an airshow or something, not the typical colors that 99% of Flankers wear. They match *a* Flanker, but probably not the one you're modeling.

Edited October 27, 2010 by David Hingtgen

[DutyCat]

......Navy jets sometimes get spot painted with off the shelf spray paints for corrosion control). When the jets go back for depot maintenance, then I can see them being repainted in proper factory colors.

Jay,

The touch ups used are the correct colors for the most part. It is just that the fresh paint has the richness of color that is usually long gone on the jet if it has been on cruise. It is also possible, since LGG and DGG are so close, that a CC dude might grab whatever is accessible at the time, perhaps thinking that it doesn't really matter(which it probably doesn't). The TPS color most susceptible to fading has to be 35237 Medium Gray, which has a distinctive blue tint. It quickly loses it's blue, unfortunately.