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Janissary

1/48 Hsgw F-4E

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Hello, my new project will be a 1/48 Hasegawa F-4E. I will be using a Blackbox cockpit set for F-4D (unfortunately) so it won't be an accurate representation at all. My goal is to practice some riveting. Lot's of sanding, puttying and line/rivet detailing is awaiting me.

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Edited by Janissary

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And some rivet work. Some of them need to be sanded down and cleaned up, while some need to be re-riveted.

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Edited by Janissary

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Woaw!

nice cockpit!

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There are some totally fantastically amazing cockpits being done in this forum...and this one is up there at the top of the group.

Edited by Angels49

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Thank you very much all. I am using the Trumpeter's riveter but I just got the RB's photoetch rivet maker (haven't tried it yet). I may provide a review of the differences between the two soon.

The back seat instrument panel was bothering me. I took it out, did some surgery and combined the kit's piece with the resin pieces to make it look more like the E model (the protrusion is gone now).

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I have also painted inside the nozzles. I first used Alclad and then airbrushed flat black. Then, with a cotton cloth lightly dabbed in enamel thinner, I removed the black from the high regions. Finally, I applied silver dry brushing. I also did a little bit of Tamiya buff dry brushing.

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Hello, I have been busy with deepening the panel lines and surface preparation.

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I recently purchased Radu Brinzan's riveter. I think it is easier to use than Trumpeter's riveter as your view is not blocked that much. The holes are also much finer. To do the rivets, I would first draw the lines with pencil and then follow that free hand. However, drawing the lines took a lot of time and was difficult on curved surfaces. Instead, I have found masking tape to be much more effective. I now use the edge of the tape as a visual guide and I can use the same piece of tape many times. Even though the tape is thin, it is thick enough to provide some mechanical guidance on its side as well to keep the riveter on the desired path.

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I have completed most of the riveting. I have not sanded down the rivets yet. They look too prominent (and messy) currently. I hope sanding and priming will tone it down to make it more scale appropriate. I have also marked some of the mistakes in the pics and I may have to come back to those to fill them in and re-rivet.

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Edited by Janissary

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I agree...a very well done cockpit! SO BB is first choice for pits still!?

Hey, the trumpi riveter is not expensive, but is not very good. I prefer my riveters from rai-ro.

What sources do you have to copy the rivet lines? Sure, it looks busy, but sometimes I'm confused about that huge amount of (visible) rivet lines.

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How well does the larger diameter RB too get into the tight crevasse? Like the top of the intake, to the spine. I was going to get both the large and small diameter riveter just for those areas, I would guess the larger dia would be better for the long straight lines, easier to keep on track.

Curt

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Hello, the large dia riveter does have issues in tight concave regions. For those, I use a pin to create the rivets. I just ordered the RB mini riveter (small dia) so hopefully that will solve some of the problems.

I have been working on the construction. I corrected and sanded down the rivets using steel wool. I have found it to be just right for delicate sanding like the rivets. Not sure about the accuracy but I also decided to use the tiseo as I think it adds interest.

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I had the SEA camo in mind when I first started but I recently changed it to hill gray with a shark mouth! This is because I want to save the SEA camo to a model that I hope to do better. I have been learning quite a bit in this model, hence I have some things I would do differently next time. With that, I did the radome in black and dark gull gray, and applied a silver wash in the bordering panel line. The body colors will be ghost gray and gunship gray.

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Also, I am in the process of painting the wheel wells, airbrakes etc.

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I am also working on the nozzles. I used future thinned with windex as a primer. Then, I used Alclad, MM metalizer and Tamiya clear blue-orange-smoke colors. Not sure if I was able to give the metallic discoloration but overall I am ok with result I think. I have not applied a wash yet. I hope to have the rivets become more defined after the wash. The nozzles themselves are a little too blend, I hope to be able to add more color if I can.

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I am getting closer to masking and priming/painting, which is always the most fun part.

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very nice work mate! The metal areas look amazing!

how did you deepen the panel lines?

I know that in Greek F-4Es the airbrake bay is the same color as the bottom, is this different in the Turkish ones?

The back instrument panel looks much better now!

keep the photos coming!

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The back seat instrument panel was bothering me. I took it out, did some surgery and combined the kit's piece with the resin pieces to make it look more like the E model (the protrusion is gone now).

The protrusion you speak of should be there, but you're right that it didn't look very realistic. It's actually a big rubber boot that the RIO/WSO looks into to shield the scope from bright sunlight.

It looks like the front instrument panel actually depicts an F-4D. Is that a Black Box cockpit set?

All the extra work you're putting into this kit is paying off. It looks great!

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I know that this is probably a bit simplistic, but can you give a step by step on how you did that cockpit?

i.e. airbrushed x,y, and z, then sealed with a coat of x, then mixed up g to make a wash

I am so curious how people get such wonderful results!!

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Also, I am in the process of painting the wheel wells, airbrakes etc.

On USAF F-4Es the speedbrake wells were the same color as the surrounding color, with the inside of the speedbrake itself painted red. I never saw an F-4 with interior green speedbrake wells.

Rivets on the real jet were covered over in paint and most were pretty much invisible unless you got up really close. You wouldn't see them in 1/48 scale. The rivets are over-done on your model in my opinion, but if you like it, who am I to complain? Removeable panel fasteners (screws and barrel nuts) were easier to see from a distance though, your rivet tool could do a good job on those.

Hasegawa duplicated the ram air turbine doors on both sides of the fuselage on top of the engine trunks, those panel lines should be filled in on the starboard side. The F-4E didn't have a RAT, the area was instead used for a black box for the RHAW system. Instead of the two doors for the RAT there was one large access panel. If you fill in the center panel line that runs fore and aft, that would be accurate.

I like the cockpit work you did, it looks quite nice. I'm looking forward to more photos of your model as you progress.

Scott Wilson

Phormer Phantom Phixer, F-4Cs and F-4Es 1980-1986

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very nice work mate! The metal areas look amazing!

how did you deepen the panel lines?

I know that in Greek F-4Es the airbrake bay is the same color as the bottom, is this different in the Turkish ones?

The back instrument panel looks much better now!

keep the photos coming!

Thank you. I have found that deepening the panel lines is very important to make sure the oil wash is uniform. I have used many tools but recently I am using Hasegawa's tritool saws (at the bottom of the photo below). For curves etc (like oval access panels or circles), I use a pin in a chuck. I sometimes use the black scriber too but not as frequently as I used to. The saws are nice in that the panel line remains sufficiently narrow, while I can control its depth.

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The protrusion you speak of should be there, but you're right that it didn't look very realistic. It's actually a big rubber boot that the RIO/WSO looks into to shield the scope from bright sunlight.

It looks like the front instrument panel actually depicts an F-4D. Is that a Black Box cockpit set?

Thank you. Yes, the BB set is an F-4D set. It came in this kit that I had purchased from ebay. I was hesitant to use it but I decided to go with it to improve my skills.

I know that this is probably a bit simplistic, but can you give a step by step on how you did that cockpit?

i.e. airbrushed x,y, and z, then sealed with a coat of x, then mixed up g to make a wash

Sure. I am glad that you liked the cockpit. Interestingly, I have not found it to be particularly good. Lots of things I would have done differently, but glad that you find it well.

For the cockpit tub:

- Wash the resin tub

- Airbrush Tamiya XF-19 (no primer underneath).

- Once dry, brush paint the black consoles and panels. I used MM enamel aircraft engine black but regular black should be ok too.

- Again brush paint various boxes in other dark/earth colors like dark brown, dark blue etc.

- Even though you may be very careful with your brush painting, the results at this stage don't look that good actually. But it is ok.

- Once dry, airbrush future (I thin it slightly with ammonia-based Windex). Let this dry at least for 24 hours.

- Apply an oil wash. I used pure black but adding a bit of white to make it dark grey could also work). I believe the wash has the nice effect of repairing all the originally 'bad' handbrusing. It acts as a nice border between the black and the gray and creates a minute gradation of the color. I like that effect even though it is subtle.

- Apply flat coat. I use Testors Dullcoat thinned with lacquer thinner. I spray it in thin coats for control. I aim for a slight sheen, hence I don't go all the way for dead flat.

- Dry brush using MM enamel silver. I don't like my cockpit that much because my drybrushing is a little too much. Color wise I am ok, but the amount is too much.

- Pick the dials with various colors using a toothpick. I start with silver and go through most of the dials/buttons. Then I use red and yellow. I try not to use straight red or yellow. I always add a little bit of black to darken them. Also, use the red/yellow minimally (may be 2-3 buttons per console)

Seats:

Similar to the tub. Attach all the belts etc. Airbrush black, hand brush the greens, grays etc. Gloss coat, wash, flat coat, and dry brushing. Hope this helps.

Instrument panels:

similar to the tub. The only difference is that I may add a drop of future or Tamiya clear green to some of the dials. Gives a glass-like look.

@Scott: Thank you very much Scott for this valuable info. I will correct the speed brake colors. I understand the absence of the RAT panel lines. However, I think I will let it remain the way it is in this model as I don't want to redo the surrounding rivets etc. I will keep this as a reminder for next time. As for the rivets, I too feel I may have gone a little too far with it. I hope they will be less visible at the end. I am curious to see how she will turn out.

Thank you all for your suggestions and your support!

Edited by Janissary

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Thanks for the cockpit info. That is a GREAT set of instructions/tips. Hopefully I can do my next cockpit justice using your techniques.

Cheers

E

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Hello, I hate to sound so critical since you have done so much nice work.

The engine faces are not the J-79-17 that belong in the F-4E

The wheel wells and speed brake area have always been the same color as the lower surface color (light gray).

The flame holder (in the afterburner) is generally a tan color pretty much the color of exhaust pipes on a recip. (Not rusted as they never had a chance to rust)and having some bluish mark (as in burn metal).

Keep up the good work.

Cheers Christian

Love that cockpit also.

Rick

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