Italeri 1/72 KC-135 to Boeing 707 Conversion

[Cougar]

Hi Guys.

Would it be possible to convert the Italeri 1/72 KC-135 Stratotanker into a Boeing 707 tanker as used by the RAAF, SAAF, IAF, etc?

I know the engines are different and the fuselage on the Boeing 707 appears to be a little longer but what else, externally, would have to be done to the model to make it accurate?

Please excuse me for posting this thread in the Jet Modeling forum as opposed to the Airliner Modeling forum but seeing as the subject is of a military nature I thought it would be better placed here.

Regards,

Cougar

Edited November 21, 2010 by Cougar

[Gator52]

I'm not an expert, but I'd suspect using a 707 kit would be a much better starting point. The differences between the two are significant.

Jonah

[Cougar]

Hi Jonah,

The problem I'm running into is that I cannot find any Boeing 707 kits on the market any more.

I know Heller made one but I haven't seen one around for years.

Regards,

Cougar

Edited November 21, 2010 by Cougar

[Trojan Thunder]

You can use the Heller/Airfix E-3 kit (same plastic) to build a 707. You will just need to use decals for the cabin windows. The Airfix E-3D kit comes with both CFM56 and JT-3D Engines. Earlier boxings of the Heller E-3A just have the JT-3Ds while the Heller E-3F kit also has both engine types.

I have a number of Airfix and Heller E-3 kits to be built as a RAAF 707 Tanker, E-6 and E-8.

There is a 707 Tanker conversion availalbe that gives you decals and resin for a RAAF aircraft as well (which includes the cabin window decals). There was also a one for a Canadian aircraft, see the Gulf War GB for one built recently.

Hope this helps

[MoFo]

Short answer: no.

Fuselage is different (not just longer, but different shape), wings are different (shape and location on fuselage), engines are different...

They are different aircraft that happen to look similar, a la Hornet/Super Hornet. Or Comet/Nimrod.

[ross blackford]

, Heller/Airfix made/make a 707 kit. That would probably be a better starting point if you can find one. If they're out of production now they will come back onto the new kit market eventually. You could probably trawl through the ebay listings or the sales listings here at ARC and over at Modeling Madness to see if anyone has one for sale in those listings as well. There are several other online stores as well so I think I'd be spending my time seeking out a straight 707 kit than trying to kitbash a KC-135 into a 707. Remember also that 4 of the RAAF 707s were ex QANTAS birds and the other 3 including Hulksbury, the spare parts bird were ex Saudia birds and there were differences between the 2 sub types. You'd have to research those differences yourself as I never had a great deal to do with the 707s and now can't remember what the differences were. I do remember that at least 2 of the RAAF 707s had APUs fitted at Richmond during the mid to late 80s to enable them to operate independantly of the need for a lot of GSE.

,

Ross.

[MiG31]

Will the 707 you're planning to build have the earlier -100/-200 wing, or the intercontinental -300/-400 wing? Have a look at this article to see the differences. In addition, the aforementioned fuselage differences are significant. The width and diameter are subtly different, as is the general cross-sectional shape.

[Jennings]

Let's put it this way: Can you convert a Seversky P-35 into a P-47N? That's about how much commonality there is between a KC-135 and a 707 tanker

Other than the fuselage, wings, engines, horizontal tails, wheels/tires, and refueling system, they're virtually identical! The vertical fin is pretty much the same. And the cockpit glass. Oh, and the radome. Otherwise, all different.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Jennings

[Dave Fleming]

They are different aircraft that happen to look similar, a la Hornet/Super Hornet. Or Comet/Nimrod.

That one is much closer! Main fuselage, outer wings, tailplanes are all the same. And someone had a Comet 4 made out of an Airfix Nimrod at Telford

[Jay Chladek]

Indeed, best left to use a 707 or an E-3 to make a 707. But you can kitbash the Heller 707 with a KC-135 to make an early 707/720 with the early style wing. Its been done. Can a KC be built into a 707? Well I remember years ago Bill Matthews in the UK did turn an EC-135N ARIA into a 720 and he made a passable job of it. I asked him why he would subject himself to said torture and he said it was an assignment for a magazine to build something with windows out of it. But the magazine folded before he got done. Looking at all the crazy work he did to it though, I would run away screaming if somebody asked me to do it.

BTW, a KC-135 does work as a better starting point to do a model 367-80 (707 prototype) if you wish to do that bird and are willing to shave the plastic down.

[Jennings]

...someone had a Comet 4 made out of an Airfix Nimrod at Telford

PICTURES! WE WANT PICTURES!!!

[Jennings]

But you can kitbash the Heller 707 with a KC-135 to make an early 707/720 with the early style wing. Its been done.

That's a gob o'work too. But yes, it's been done.

Sadly the entire front end of the Heller 707 is messed up. The roof over the cockpit is way too shallow a curve. Most people wouldn't really notice it, but once you know it's there... Okay, and I'm totally anal about the airplane. I embrace that. I own it :)

J

[Cougar]

Hi Guys,

This is becoming an interesting thread... I was not aware that there were so many differences between the two aircraft.

Will the 707 you're planning to build have the earlier -100/-200 wing, or the intercontinental -300/-400 wing?

Hi MiG31,

My intention with the Boeing 707 is to build a Boeing 707-328C as used by the South African Air Force. If I was to guess I suppose this would make it the -300/ -400 wing?

I'm busy collecting a couple of Kfirs (Italeri and Tamiya) which I plan on converting into Cheetah aircraft but instead of building each aircraft and then displaying it on a base I've been thinking of creating a diorama with a couple of Cheetah's plugged in to the Boeing 707, taking on fuel.

As per Trojan Thunder's advice, I have been looking around for an Airfix 1/72 Boeing E-3D AWACS Sentry but so far I've come up empty handed (I didn't even know they made one - Thank you for the heads up, Trojan Thunder), but given that Airfix periodically re-release their models I'm sure one will appear in their catalogue in the not to distant future

I must be crazy, this is going to be an ambitious one

Regards,

Cougar

[Jennings]

This is becoming an interesting thread... I was not aware that there were so many differences between the two aircraft.

I could go on for days, but you'd be asleep by then

My intention with the Boeing 707 is to build a Boeing 707-328C as used by the South African Air Force. If I was to guess I suppose this would make it the -300/ -400 wing?

No, it's the 320B/C Intercontinental wing. The straight 300/400 wing is different (isn't this fun??).

As per Trojan Thunder's advice, I have been looking around for an Airfix 1/72 Boeing E-3D AWACS Sentry but so far I've come up empty handed (I didn't even know they made one - Thank you for the heads up, Trojan Thunder), but given that Airfix periodically re-release their models I'm sure one will appear in their catalogue in the not to distant future

The Airfix Sentry is the Heller Sentry, which is itself based on the Heller 707-320B airliner kit from the mid-1980s. You can look for any of those kits. IIRC the South African ones still have their original 707 JT3D engines, which I believe are still to be found in all of the kits, along with new sprues for the CFM (big fan) engines for the AWACS variants.

Without looking, I'm not sure what kind of refueling system the SAAF has, but I suspect it's just wing tip drogue pods, of which there are at least two distinct and very different types fitted to 707 tankers. I don't know that either has been done in resin, so you'll probably end up scratch building them.

As you can probably tell, the 707/KC-135 are my favorite airplanes bar none, so fire away with questions.

J

[Cougar]

Hi Jennings,

No, it's the 320B/C Intercontinental wing. The straight 300/400 wing is different (isn't this fun??).

Would I have to modify the Airfix/ Heller kits wings?

IIRC the South African ones still have their original 707 JT3D engines, which I believe are still to be found in all of the kits, along with new sprues for the CFM (big fan) engines for the AWACS variants.

That's correct... I don't think the SAAF ever undertook an engine upgrade on their Boeing 707's. All the photographs I've come across show the JT3D engines. At any rate, the aircraft have been retired now so information should be easier to come by.

Without looking, I'm not sure what kind of refueling system the SAAF has, but I suspect it's just wing tip drogue pods, of which there are at least two distinct and very different types fitted to 707 tankers. I don't know that either has been done in resin, so you'll probably end up scratch building them.

I believe the configuration was one wing tip drogue pod per wing and one under the rear fuselage (Not sure where though). Do you have any information on the two types you mentioned above?

I don't mind doing the scratchbuilding - If I'm successful it serves a dual purpose as the masters could always be turned into a resin set for others to use

Edit: There's a nice photograph in the link below of three Cheetah D's hooking up to a Boeing 707 with the ELINT side-cheeks on the forward fuselage.

Click Me - SAAF Boeing 707 Images

Regards,

Cougar

Edited November 22, 2010 by Cougar

[Scott Hemsley]

Hi Jonah,

The problem I'm running into is that I cannot find any Boeing 707 kits on the market any more.

I know Heller made one but I haven't seen one around for years.

Regards,

Cougar

I was in Toronto and stopped in at Aviation World yesterday (Sun, Nov.21) & they had a 1/72 ProModeller Boeing 707. These ProModeller kits were just reboxings of existing kits (usually Heller) as Canadian subjects. In this case, it was the 1/72 ProModeller (ex-Heller) Boeing 707 - still sealed - probably from somebody's collection.

They do have a web site (http://www.aviationworld.net) although I don't know how current it is. However, the contact information would still be good. For plastic, the guy to get ahold of is Marek. IMO, compared to him, the others know little of our hobby.

BTW, they do mailorder!

Scott

[Jennings]

Would I have to modify the Airfix/ Heller kits wings?

No. The -300/400 was the original long body 707 variant with JT3C turbojets. All the tankers flown outside of Israel are -320B/Cs, as the Heller kits are.

I believe the configuration was one wing tip drogue pod per wing and one under the rear fuselage (Not sure where though). Do you have any information on the two types you mentioned above?

I don't have any info on the pods I'm afraid. Those appear (from a great distance) to be the Flight Refuelling Ltd pods. Check airliners.net for photos of various 707 tankers (Brasil, Spain) that have them.

As for the under-fuselage one, that's something I've not seen. I'd imagine that's an Israeli mod. Not aware of any other 707s that have it.

[terrysumner]

Cougar...PM sent re: I have an untouched Heller 1/72 707 I can sell.

[Cougar]

Hi Scott,

Thank you for the heads up - Much appreciated B)

Hi Jennings,

I don't have any info on the pods I'm afraid. Those appear (from a great distance) to be the Flight Refuelling Ltd pods. Check airliners.net for photos of various 707 tankers (Brasil, Spain) that have them.

Will do :)

As for the under-fuselage one, that's something I've not seen. I'd imagine that's an Israeli mod. Not aware of any other 707s that have it.

That's quite possible - In this link it mentions that the aircraft were sourced from Israel.

Hi Terry,

Cougar...PM sent re: I have an untouched Heller 1/72 707 I can sell.

PM sent :)

Regards,

Cougar

Edited November 23, 2010 by Cougar

[Jennings]

That's quite possible - In this link it mentions that the aircraft were sourced from Israel.

I'm 100% positive of that. That's where the SIGINT mods were done.

J

[phantom]

I was in Toronto and stopped in at Aviation World yesterday (Sun, Nov.21) & they had a 1/72 ProModeller Boeing 707. These ProModeller kits were just reboxings of existing kits (usually Heller) as Canadian subjects. In this case, it was the 1/72 ProModeller (ex-Heller) Boeing 707 - still sealed - probably from somebody's collection.

They do have a web site (http://www.aviationworld.net) although I don't know how current it is. However, the contact information would still be good. For plastic, the guy to get ahold of is Marek. IMO, compared to him, the others know little of our hobby.

BTW, they do mailorder!

Scott

I saw that today. $75.00 sealed but old looking box. I just finished this kit with Leading Edge decals, surprised how nice it came out.

[Cougar]

Hey Phantom,

Post some pics if you can - would be cool to have a look see B)

Regards,

Cougar

[Ivan-otter]

Will the 707 you're planning to build have the earlier -100/-200 wing, or the intercontinental -300/-400 wing? Have a look at this article to see the differences. In addition, the aforementioned fuselage differences are significant. The width and diameter are subtly different, as is the general cross-sectional shape.

That is an excellent article!!

Whoever wrote it (and researched it) deserves a medal.

[Jay Chladek]

That is an excellent article!!

Whoever wrote it (and researched it) deserves a medal.

I'm surprised David hasn't chimed in since it is his article and he is an active ARC member (he has the F-14 sundowner tail as his avatar).

High Planes did the major Cheetah variants in 1/72 scale. I've got an unbuilt Cheetah D two seater and have the remains of a Cheetah C packed somewhere (I can finish it, but it needs some work still). A direct kitbash of a Kfir with a Mirage IIIE could yield a pretty good Cheetah E I figure.

[Omega One]

Maybe the same pods in the Chilean 707 ?? the modification was also done by IAI!!

Fach 1

Fach 2

Fach 3

Fach 4

Regards