Raymond Collishaw's first victory

[mustang1984]

Hi Guys,

I am trying to find out what aircraft Raymond Collishaw shot down while flying Strutter '9407' on 25th Oct 1916. I know it was a 'Fokker' but what do you guys think it would have been, an E.III, D.II or either?

It is for a painting I am doing to enter for next years Guild of Aviation Artists exhibition in London

Regards and many Thanks

Lee

[georgeg]

Hi Guys,

I am trying to find out what aircraft Raymond Collishaw shot down while flying Strutter '9407' on 25th Oct 1916. I know it was a 'Fokker' but what do you guys think it would have been, an E.III, D.II or either?

It is for a painting I am doing to enter for next years Guild of Aviation Artists exhibition in London

Regards and many Thanks

Lee

;)

I would think it would most likely be an E.III but I can't think of any way I could prove it.

[fer-de-lance]

The weather over the next two weeks was even worse than previously and the Wing spent its time moving to the new base at Ochey. On 25 October 1916 Collishaw was ferrying Sopwith fighter 9407 to Ochey. As he was only going a short distance behind the lines he didn't bother with a rear gunner.

I was detailed to ferry one of the Sopwith fighters from Luxeuil to the new field. As it was a routine flight behind our own lines I saw no reason to take a rear gunner. For some reason I strayed further east than I intended and was jumped by six enemy scouts intent on my destruction. A stream of bullets from one of their number smashed my goggles, filling my eyes with powdered glass. I was hardly able to see and could do little more than fling my machine around in a vain attempt to throw them off. Gradually my sight began to return and I realised that my largely uncontrolled manoeuvering had brought me close to the ground. One of the German machines attempted to come down on me steeply from above, but miscalculated his dive and crashed into a tree. With each attack I waited until the enemy was about to open fire then turned inside him. In this way one finally flew across my nose and I sent several bursts into its engine and cockpit. He flipped over and went down almost vertically, whether he made it down safely or not I don't know. Diving into German territory, I shook off my pursuers momentarily, but they caught up with me and I flew deeper into Germany in an effort to shake them off. Finally I did so, and after flying back towards French territory prepared to land at an aerodrome I saw below. I put down and taxied in among the aircraft parked on the ground, and then it dawned on me that they bore the German Iron Cross marking ! I jammed the throttle forward and managed to take off, although I clipped off the tops of two trees close to the field. [F/S/L R. Collishaw, fighter 9407]

http://www.overthefront.com/WWI-Aviation-N...-Service-p2.php

Ochey is about 100km from Colmar where Jasta 16 was based at the time. This is probably the closest German scout unit.

Problem is, this unit operated Fokker and Pfalz monoplanes as well as Fokker D.II biplanes ...

Kissenberth's Fokker D.II

Jasta 15 was ~50km further south in Habsheim.

Udet's Fokker D.III - notice the fake "rear gunner"

You can look up the listing for the Jasta 15 and 16 losses for the date in question in "The Jasta War Chronology: A Complete Listing Of Claims And Losses, August 1916 - November 1918" by Norman Franks et al, publ 1998, Grubb Street (ISBN-13: 9781898697848)

Good luck with the painting ...

[GPaulC]

I can find nothing about this victory in the RFC Communiques around that date and Above the Trenches only lists the a/c as a scout. The problem is that millitary men are actually notoriously bad at identifying enemy equipment and often label it by its most obvious feature such as triplane or "basket tail" (which is what the Germans called pusher types) or by some generic name such as de Havilland for all British pushers, Sopwith for all British rotary engined a/c (even when they were Nieuports) etc. Consider American ground combat reports from Normandy where almost every tank is a Tiger and guns are invariably 88s. So whatever your source for the Fokker claim may be you need to ask whether he actually meant a Fokker a/c and if so which type, or whether he simply meant an enemy monoplane or even an enemy fighter of any type or configuration.

Also as regards the painting remember that the Fokker E III and E IV looked very similar from some angles and very different from others. So many decisions, so little info.

[dawnpatroller]

Have a look at this Linky

Dave.

[mustang1984]

Hi Guys,

thanks for all the help and advice, I really appreciate it.

I am going to go on the assumption that Collishaw's opponents were a mixed bag from either Jasta 15 or 16 and not show any 'going down in flames', a little artistic license here but on what info you guys have found we really can't be 100% sure. As and when the painting is done I will include it on this thread for you all to see (and pick holes in) before it goes off to submission day

Regards and many thanks

Lee :D