China Confirms Aircraft Carrier Plans

[Antonov]

I've long asserted that aircraft carriers are 20th century relics and guaranteed deathtraps in a war against an even semi-industrialized opponent, but it looks like the Politburo of the PRC disagrees with my assessment:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fa7f5e6a-09cc-11...144feabdc0.html

China reveals aircraft carrier plans

By Kathrin Hille in Beijing

Published: December 17 2010 12:42 | Last updated: December 17 2010 12:42

China has confirmed for the first time that it is preparing to build an aircraft carrier, a move set to heighten international concerns over the rapid expansion of its naval power.

Beijing announced its step quietly with one sentence buried at the end of a lengthy government publication.

“In 2009, China put forward a plan and a programme for building an aircraft carrier,†says China’s Ocean Development Report (2010), a book published in May by the State Oceanic Administration, a body under the Ministry of Land and Resources.

“This shows that China has started entering a new historic era of comprehensively building itself into a great naval power. [This] is China’s historic task for the entire 21st century,†the report said.

A senior Chinese defence official told the Financial Times two years ago that the world should not be surprised if China built an aircraft carrier. In March last year, Liang Guanglie, China’s minister of defence, told his Japanese counterpart that China would not remain forever the only major power without an aircraft carrier.

Defence experts have also spotted, from Google Earth imagery, the construction of runways at two military airports over the past year suitable for training pilots in take-off and landing under aircraft carrier conditions.

The Varyag, a Soviet-era aircraft carrier hull that China bought from Ukraine in 1998, has been undergoing repairs and is expected to start service as an exercise platform in 2012...

Edited December 18, 2010 by Antonov

[Flankerman]

They've already built one........

OK - so it's not fully operational yet ...........

More here

Ken

[panthergreen]

good luck to them. Watch all the money they have saved get drained away when they start ramping up that sort of program (space exploration etc as well).

[F-15fan]

Well....ponder the Chinese thought process.

As a ethnic group they are good at business and a hard working group of people. Those are their strengths.

As a ethnic group they like to flash they wealth to show their status........nice cars and such.....that is their weakness......an obsession with the trappings of status.

So here we have China.....working hard to rebuild it's country in a very short length of time and I think it is safe to say that as a country, they have amased a certain degree of wealth........so what do they do with that wealth? They try to look flashy by buying all the toys the rich kids have.......Moon landings and Aircraft Carrier battle groups.

It's actually quite predictable when you think of it.

[TaiidanTomcat]

Naval Aviation is not cheap. Not to mention all the fancy toys that have to accompany carriers for protection.

The US Navy is happy with this development as well.

PS Great photos Ken

[jimz66]

Naval Aviation is not cheap. Not to mention all the fancy toys that have to accompany carriers for protection.

The US Navy is happy with this development as well.

PS Great photos Ken

I'd have to debate that, It will bring another unneeded threat to the USN. In an era when Defense is being slashed. I don't know.

[Flankerman]

I read an interesting statistic recently......

The numbers are probably way off - but you get the gist........

In the last 15 years the USA spent 15 trillion dollars prosecuting wars around the globe.

In the same period China spent the same amount upgrading it's countries infrastructure.

Ken

[DutyCat]

We'll happily finance their military adventures as well as their space program from now until eternity as long as we can't get enough cheap garbage they produce.

Like Trumpeter CVN models and 1/32 SuperHornets? Yeah, those are really crappy.

They said the same thing about Japanese products once. Now we have Toyota, Honda, and Hasegawa.

They said the same thing about Korea once. Now we have SumSang(name changed as it got spammed) and Hyundai. My wife drives a new Sonata, and as much as I hate to say it, it is markedly superior in craftsmanship to the relatively new Chevy truck that I drive or the Malibu and Fusion that we compared it to.

It probably won't be long before Chinese cars show up here.

Folks, the reality here is that China and other Asian countries are populated by proud people who are willing to work. There are so many of them that they are willing to work cheap, which drives the price of their products down. No wonder our economy is stagnating. All of our money is going overseas. In order to be competitive with price points, American companies try to cut corners in areas they hope you won't notice. American companies, owing partially to shareholder pressure and corporate values (basically our cultural impatience and greed), do everything they can to boost quarterly profits. They are not thinking about the value their products represent ten years down the road. They want you to wear out that Chevy or Ford in five years and buy a new one.

American consumers, trying to stretch their dollar, buy Chinese products, send them the money, then turn around and borrow the same money from them, pay interest on it, then use the money they borrowed to buy more Chinese products. And the transfer of wealth continues.

Now in terms of unions, individual rights and political freedom......by our standards, China is pretty far behind. But so far the people are largely willing to sacrifice because they see the value of cultural conformity and teamwork.

On a related note....

America has devolved into a fragmented landscape of vastly different values. What is most common, however, is an attitude of excuses and entitlement. "Show me the money" consumerism and business practices are the norm. The concepts of sacrifice, duty, and leadership, and personal self discipline (the values of the greatest generation), are held only by a relative few. They are mostly older folks who are considered dinosaurs by the mainstream youth of America.

As the various diverse groups gain political and legislative power, I believe more and more we will see defense budgets cut to fund entitlement programs. The young folks today are not going to care about foreign policy or perceived strategic threats. They think that if we disengage and leave the rest of the world alone, they will leave us alone. Large defense budgets are going to solicit the cry "scaremongering to feed the military industrial complex."

Excuse me while I go put together my next online order to LuckyModel.

Edited December 18, 2010 by DutyCat

[Superjew]

Its nice to see the loans our tax dollars pay for, plus interest, from China, going towards socialistic Chinese policys, a 1000x better highspeed rail infrastructure over there, and now a new war toy that can back up N. Korea when we send our naval battle group in Taiwan/S. Korea waters.

I see these people that hate taxes so much, they would rather borrow and pay Communist China to loan us money to make up budgetary shortfalls than pay taxes. To me those anti-tax people (that supposedly support their views in the name of freemarket anarchy and a vague notion of less taxes = "Freedom") are Communist China/ N. Korea's best friend.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Superjew

[FAR148]

Money is pretty much no object in China, as long as we keep buying all their cheap plastic crap at Mal-Wart. We'll happily finance their military adventures as well as their space program from now until eternity as long as we can't get enough cheap garbage they produce.

I wish more Americas knew this.

Steven L

[gonzalo]

I wonder if The British Empire said the same things about America when we first started? Look how they ended up.

[DutyCat]

I wish more Americas knew this.

Steven L

Most Americans are concerned primarily with living their day to day lives...putting food on the table, taking care of the kids, and paying their bills. That is their reality. That is what they care about. There is very little inclination towards strategic thought, except among the few leaders we have. Even at that, the leaders have very different priorities depending on where they fall in the political spectrum.

[Kalashnikov-47]

It probably won't be long before Chinese cars show up here...

Not here yet, but they're coming. Here in Saginaw County, Michigan, the

largest employer is a Chinese-owned car parts company that was once a

GM company - Anyone familiar with Saginaw Steering Gear? They made

guns in WW2, now Chinese owned and known as Nexteer, they're

producing steering components. So, they're already in the American car

industry.

[Matt Roberts]

As for population growth, the Chinese population is forcast to get to near 0% mid century (perhaps as early as 2030) as a result of the one baby policy and the resulting male preference in families.

There also is immigration (or lack there of) mainland China will probably still be a net loser as in a relatively homogenous society it is less likely for foreigners to want to move to China and assimilate like happens in The United States.

As for a naval build up...China is an economic power based upon trade....trade that mostly goes via water. A Chinese Blue water naval force should be a much less threatening vision than the German build up under Tirpitz was for the British in the late Victorian and Eduardian eras.

This may even be behind China paying for the enlargement of the Panama Canal right now. Rail links to East Coast ports, as well as the ports themselves are being improved to handle the traffic that the new 'Panamax' container ships will bring. I have even read of China looking into a Thailand Canal that will bypass the straights of Malacca reviving a historical location that Chinese trade was transhipped prior to the European arrival, as wel as the periodic turning inward that China goes thru (look up Zheng He).

Here is a wiki article on the Kra Canal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Canal

In fact the story of the thinking behind the Kra Canal is very similar to what existed prior to the Suez and Panama Canal s being built with an existing portage route being looked at being replaced to minimize any transhippment costs. Singapore may not be too happy with the development though....

There is a historical precident for peaceful trade in the area - before the Europeans arrived in the 17th Century. Perhaps if calmer minds prevail a naval buildup in the Indian Ocean and Western Pacific will be less a Dreadnought Race and more a 'Zheng He (Cheng Ho)' development

IBTL

Edited December 18, 2010 by Matt Roberts

[Johnopfor]

Oh boy....another promising thread is about to turn into the Titanic......

.....iceburg ahead!!

[F-15fan]

Oh boy....another promising thread is about to turn into the Titanic......

.....iceburg ahead!!

I saw that...but it's gone now.....I guess the mods are watching this thread. :)

[Superjew]

Oh boy....another promising thread is about to turn into the Titanic......

.....iceburg ahead!!

Personally Im glad both my post and his post got deleted because I found that the ad with its political references offensive to my strong political beleifs, and to not belong on this forum, despite its reference to China owning us. The No-Politics rule is a good rule on this forum, albeit hard to abide by with so much discussion of the military, but I will defend my political leanings if someone makes a jab at it.

[F-15fan]

In the 80's the Japanese owned us....then their economy tanked in '89 and that was the end of that story.

China has plenty of issues that will make it difficult to keep her economic train on track. Remember back in 2007 when the US economy sputtered and the shock waves it sent through the Chinese economy?

The US has one strong point......a creative population.

[Superjew]

In the 80's the Japanese owned us....then their economy tanked in '89 and that was the end of that story.

China has plenty of issues that will make it difficult to keep her economic train on track. Remember back in 2007 when the US economy sputtered and the shock waves it sent through the Chinese economy?

The US has one strong point......a creative population.

I personally think we need to heavily invest in highspeed rail. virtually every other industrialized country that is an economic power, has a good high-speed rail network. China set the highspeed rail record last month at 302mph.

From what I understand we have a good freight-rail system compared to other countries. As it sits we subsidize the airline industry (TSA, Air traffic Controllers, FAA, etc.) and its not even profitable really after all that subsidization. I think highspeed rail would be GREAT competition for airtravel over medium distances, uses a small fraction of the fuel for how much it can transport compared to airplanes or other forms of mass-transportation.It would provide a viable/fuelless alternative for transportation, for the inevitable rise in fuel prices when it becomes unaffordable for the common man.

I think our economy will be forever doomed to slow growth without some serious investment in infrastructure. The interstate highway system was a good start for helping our economy enter the 21st century, but we never finished the jobs that needed done.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Superjew

[Ken Middleton]

The No-Politics rule is a good rule on this forum, albeit hard to abide by with so much discussion of the military, but I will defend my political leanings if someone makes a jab at it.

a better option is to use the Report button