Airbrush paint

[made2000]

What is a good airbrush paint to use, One that is available in stores like wal-mart or Micheals I hate ordering offline. lol. I bought a apple barrel at Micheals the other day to try but havet had time yet. it was on sale for 89 cents so I'm not out anything if apple barrel wont work.. Thanks

[dmk0210]

What is a good airbrush paint to use, One that is available in stores like wal-mart or Micheals I hate ordering offline. lol. I bought a apple barrel at Micheals the other day to try but havet had time yet. it was on sale for 89 cents so I'm not out anything if apple barrel wont work.. Thanks

That Apple barrel paint (craft acrylics) isn't going to work so well. For one, it is way too thick to airbrush (it's really too thick to even paint with a regular brush). For another, it doesn't stick to plastic too well. Believe me, a lot of us really want to (and have tried) make that stuff work, but it is very problematic.

I'm big on not buying "specialized hobby stuff" from hobby stores. You can find things such as tweezers, cutters, sanding sticks, putties, sandpapers, glues, etc much cheaper and in larger quantities elsewhere. But paint for your models is one thing that you really are better off buying in a hobby shop.

Now, if you really want to try and be frugal or buy locally without having a local hobby shop, you can buy spray cans of paint at your local hardware store and "decant" a little at a time to use in your airbrush. I do this all the time. It takes a nack though to do it without making a huge mess. It is ready to airbrush right out of the can, but you will also need some lacquer thinner to use to clean your airbrush after using this stuff.

Here's how you decant paint from a spray can:

Edited December 23, 2010 by dmk0210

[made2000]

Thanks DM there is a local hobby shop a couple of miles from me. they have very little in the way of kits but do have some paints. what is the best hobby paint to use.

[SteveH]

I think you need to "suck it up" and buy some actual model paints. They last a long while, especially if you're airbrushing.

You can purchase hobby paints with FS numbers specified - a big advantage over non-model paints.

The "best paint to use" is one that you feel comfortable with. I switched over to acrylics years ago because I didn't want the volatile hydrocarbon solvents from enamel paints stinking up the house and threatening my health. This may not be a factor for you if you paint outside or have a well vented spray booth.

I use Model Master acrylics with fine luck - although others on his forum don't much care for them.

PollyScale has a good line of acrylics, also, although (at least locally) they don't seem to have the gamut of modern military aircraft colors as does Model Master.

If you choose to use enamels I'll leave the "best paint" advice to others who have more recent experience in this medium than I.

Edited December 23, 2010 by SteveH

[made2000]

I agree I'm going to have to. I dont do much military and so white and grays is my most commen on airliners I guess. How much paint do you actually get from decanting is it worth the time to save a little and buy a can of less say krylon and decant it over buying MM or tamiya.

I read on another forum that MM is a little harder to airbrush but more durable.. I might just buy one of each and see. But if you get enough paint from decanting I might go that route.. All tho I do like the idea of using acrylics..

Edited December 23, 2010 by made2000

[dmk0210]

Thanks DM there is a local hobby shop a couple of miles from me. they have very little in the way of kits but do have some paints. what is the best hobby paint to use.

"Best" is really a matter of opinion. There is no right answer. For example, where made2000 likes Model Master Acrylics, I have terrible luck with them and prefer their enamels.

Do a search on this site for things like "model master", gunze, pollyscale, enamel and acrylic. Get a favorite beverage and get comfortable. There will be a lot of reading.

[mightymax]

Your Apple Barrel and Delta or similar brands of craft paint will not spray correctly as they tend to clog the airbrush even if thinned with distilled water.

However

If you thin those paints with good old Future, it transforms them into surprisingly good sprayable paints. The only downside if it can be called that. Is that all your paints will be gloss so you will need to spray flat to deaden the shine. Of course the benefit is your model will already be glossed to take decals

Max Bryant

Edited December 25, 2010 by mightymax

[made2000]

Thanks mighty I'll give it a go, What is a good ratio for paint/future. Also can I still polish the paint then apply a few more coats of future after the decals...

[made2000]

I tried the future with 50/50 and got about the same results, pulling back just barley and holding the brush about 1 inch from the paper all I got was paint hitting the surface and splattering out in all directions..

I'm going to go tomorrow when the roads clear up and try to find some createx or liquetex (not spelled right ).. and try those. Yea OK no.. lol.. I checked a local art supply online and they sell golden fluid stuff for like 15 dollars for 1 oz.. Just cant do that atm till I get caught up from the holidays.. So till then back to Krylon lol..

Edited December 27, 2010 by made2000

[shark 64]

The cheap always comes out expensive.....Im sure you've heard that one before.

Tamiya paints might be your ticket if you want to stay in acrylic world.

why spend all that time building a nice model to cut orners once its time to paint.????

Good luck.

[made2000]

What is the best thinning alot of people say windshield fluid, about 50/50 does that sound ok

[made2000]

Much better, I should have steered clear of that cheap stuff just starting out.. I decanted some gloss black krylon and its like a whole diffrent world..

[mightymax]

Thanks mighty I'll give it a go, What is a good ratio for paint/future. Also can I still polish the paint then apply a few more coats of future after the decals...

I can't tell you exact ratios but I would experiment with them. Like 4 to one etc...

Max Bryant

[dmk0210]

Much better, I should have steered clear of that cheap stuff just starting out.. I decanted some gloss black krylon and its like a whole diffrent world..

Decanted spray paint airbrushes very nicely and per ounce it's pretty cheap compared to a jar of model paint.

[balls47]

Yessir, SteveH hit it on the head. Buy some good hobby paint. You won't find model paints at most stores like Wal Mart, Meijers, etc. any more. They don't put stuff like glue, paint, etc. in their toy departments. I use Model Master enamels for my colors. They are pretty much right on as far as the FS (Federal Standard) numbers, and that helps a lot. Depending on the scale, you might want to lighten up your colors with a little bit of white for "scale color." I spray my paint when it gets to about the consistency of 2% milk. I don't have an absolute mixing ratio. Depending on what you are using your paint for depends on how much you will need to thin the paint. I use acrylics for most of my clear coating. When I mix paint, I NEVER spray it onto the model I am building until I have tested it out. I have a couple of cheap junker models that I glued together as a test bed for paint.

The only time that I use the cheaper stuff from Wal Mart, TSC, etc., is black, white, or clear. I also make sure to check it out before putting it on a model. Krylon makes pretty good paint to decant to put into your airbrush. I also use gray primer that is available at auto parts stores. The best brand that I have used is Plasti-Kote. I have only found this primer in a flat texture. If you want to smooth it down, steel wool (0000) works for me. If you use steel wool, you will need to give your model a good cleaning.

The last thing I will mention is probably the most important. That would be safety. We don't want our hobby to be the end of us. This is actually a pretty safe hobby. However, we do use some sharp, pointy, etc., stuff. We also use some chemicals that can be pretty nasty and/or flammable. Make sure that you have good ventilation and stay away from the furnace, water heater, etc. Wear a good organic respirator. I have one made by 3M that was around $25.00.

[datahiker]

I agree that model paints are the way to go, but I've successfully sprayed cheap craft paints. The good/bad thing about model paints is that most are made to match specs (like FS colors) which is great as long as you don't need to paint the custom colors needed for something like a sci-fi kit. Good luck finding "Anakin's Pod Racer Blue #1."

Craft paint can be sprayed, but you have to experiment with a concoction to thin it - mine includes future, airbrush retarder and windex. After thinning it you have to filter it with a superfine mesh and it must be applied over primer.

So it can be done, it just requires more work.

[dahut]

I'll start with the normal admonition that the cheap, squeeze-bottle acrylic 'craft paints' are not made for airbrushing.

That said, I've done it. This was back before we had computers and forums full of "guru's" spinning their logic, telling me I shouldn't.

First, it requires a lot of thinning and experimentation - AND a good coat of primer. Don't expect these paints to adhere well to bare plastic, although when cured they are pretty tenacious. I used to prime with an enamel primer, usually decanted from a rattle can. Eventually, I started using Model Master enamels and Floquil railroad paints as a primer/base coat...mostly because these were available.

What I did was to rub the model's bare plastic down with 0000 steel wool before painting, which means a lot of clean up to get rid of dust and steel fibers. Then, I lightly buff each paint addition with a combination of steel wool and a T-shirt. This is to knock back the graininess of the coarse pigments in these paints.

Fortunately, the pigments in the paints tend to fill in the micro-fine scuffing left from the wool. By the time you achieve the final finish, many coats of color paint, clear gloss and flats have been layered on, along with decals.

For thinner, I would recommend a 50:50 water and isopropyl alcohol mix, prepared in 8 oz. batches. I also add a few drops of ammonia to this.

Then I experiment a lot with both air and paint flow using a single action brush. I've never used a true double action airbrush with these paints, but I suspect they would not go over well with their more complex mechanisms.

The trick is not to try to add thick coats, but light ones layered on. Ive used them to paint German mottling, so it can be done, although I would try to keep to simple schemes when using these craft acrylics.

On the other hand, they are well suited for brush painting of detail bits, figures, and especially ground work in diorama's. They still need to be thinned appropriately, though, no matter what you do.

Is it worth it, all this experimentation and bother? Thats the real question, isnt it? The answer is that, like with all things, it is if you make up your mind to it. I mean, it's a hobby - what else you got to do?

With half used bottles of specialty model paint drying out in your shop (at $3+ per bottle) it could be considered a cost savings. It depends on how you reckon value.

It might also be far more convenient to obtain these paints than dedicated model paint. So it's worth trying it out, at least. If it fails, then you have lost little.

P.S. You will not gain color fidelity out of the bottle, however. That is going to be up to you and your artistic eye.

Edited December 28, 2010 by dahut

[SteveH]

I make no claim to be an "internet "guru"", but I do have a number of bottles of perfectly serviceable MM acrylic paint downstairs of much less than recent vintage.

Dried up paint bottles means poor storage and/or bottle maintenance - clean the threads and top of the bottle before replacing cap tightly.

I'm much less concerned with $3 per bottle model paint (which usually get me through several models) than I am with the current pricing of kits - 3 to 5 times what they used to be. If I use half a bottle of $3 model paint on a $30-$50 (or more) kit, believe me I won't be counting pennies.

You mileage may vary...

"not a guru"

[dahut]

I make no claim to be an "internet "guru"", but I do have a number of bottles of perfectly serviceable MM acrylic paint downstairs of much less than recent vintage.

Dried up paint bottles means poor storage and/or bottle maintenance - clean the threads and top of the bottle before replacing cap tightly.

I'm much less concerned with $3 per bottle model paint (which usually get me through several models) than I am with the current pricing of kits - 3 to 5 times what they used to be. If I use half a bottle of $3 model paint on a $30-$50 (or more) kit, believe me I won't be counting pennies.

You mileage may vary...

"not a guru"

Yours is a good point. Quibbling over paint on a A $50 'wunder kit' does seem silly. Whats another $10-$15?

And if you treat them right, using good seal discipline, those little paint bottles and tins can last a long time.

Trouble is, the concept of meticulous, microscopic seal management eludes many... You see them here often enough, wondering what to do about it.

I'm an inveterate tinkerer and I came up before we had all the modeling accoutrement of today. My motto has always been "Make Do." Making a decent model WITHOUT the benefit of every single modern innovation is still satisfying. Personally, I reckon $50 for a plastic dust collector is a bit daft - no matter how you paint it.

Since each of us manages the hobby in his own way, I'll take sides with the experimenters willing to try something new. This includes WalMart paint.

There's nothing wrong with using the mini bottles of dedicated model paint... make no mistake, I have plenty of them. But there is nothing wrong with striking out on your own, even where others recommend you not go. In fact, I heartily encourage it.*

Like I said, "It depends on how you reckon value."

Go Seabees!

* PS I like acrylic gloss from a rattle can, too.

Edited December 29, 2010 by dahut

[made2000]

I guess my point is as long as I'm in School and we have to budget everything. I work 40 hours and go to School at night when I get out I"ll go buy the best paint and not care what so ever lol.. Not only will I be making more but wont have the School expense..

But for now its tight and the idea of being able to buy 5 bottles of apple barrel for 5 bucks and after thinning getting 25 oz's for 5 bucks vs spending 5 dollars on one 1oz bottle and after thinning getting 2 oz's for 5 dollars.. thats a huge diffrence 25 ounces for 5 dollars and 2 ounces for 5 dollars. I was just trying to get them to work I've seen people using them but I just cant get them to spray right.. So I'll just get rattle cans and decant them.. Its a little cheaper.. I would assume you will get around 6 ounces alteast.. I can pick up some cheap spray cans for 3 dollars and get 6 ounces.. Not as good as the craft acrylics but getting more than double the amount than I would get from the good paints.

Keep in mind all though I forgot to mention I'm airbrushing models of course but I also enjoy airbrushing scenes and things on canvas.. I followed a tuturiol on you tube about making a skull and It turned out pretty well my neighbor said he would pay me 50 dollars to paint on a license tag.. money already yay.. lol.. So I use alot more paint than if I just used it for models.. Right now I'm using some decanted stuff from tons of rattle cans I had on my shelf when that runs out I would love to go get some good cheap paint. But Thats just not happening I guess.. lol..

I totally agree with you all that the tamiya and MM and things like createx wicked colors is what I need to use, just trying to be thrifty atm..

[dahut]

I guess my point is as long as I'm in School and we have to budget everything.....

I totally agree with you all that the tamiya and MM and things like createx wicked colors is what I need to use, just trying to be thrifty atm..

You must be going for an accounting degree, judging by your post.

First, there is nothing wrong with being frugal. You're doing a great job, working and going to school, too. Many dream, but you are achieving. Don't apologize.

I left college behind long ago, I DON'T have to budget every dime and I STILL think the paints in question are useful. I use what I like, sometimes it's a proprietary model paint - and sometimes it's these craft paints. I don't try to make them do things they are incapable of, mind you. But I'll use them without fear. There is no end of folks to tell you how to spend your money, and most are well intended. But 80%of the time, you don't need to do more than get to a particular end. I have a drill press that is not top of the line. Guess what? It is functional and does the many things I need such a tool to do. Am I hampered by it? No.

Threads like this occur all the time. Someone asks a question, people pontificate on this or that aspect of the hobby and the poster takes it as gospel... and never learns there are other ways. This is good for those selling stuff in the hobby, I suppose, but it discourages experimentation.

So lets look at that $4 bottle of paint. Its nice, its smooth and it looks good - but who's to say they got it right? There has been vast improvement in color fidelity in recent years, BUT there is so much variation in the field due to wear, tear and erosion that no two subjects are the same. Did you know there were 1400 paint manufacturers in the US during WWII - do you imagine THEY got the color exactly the same, each and every time?

Some things in this hobby are a real boon. For example, I got a P-E set and resin cannon pods for a Ju-87 Gustav off ebay recently. I paid right at $15 for the pair. At my glacial building pace, it would take a year to scratch build all the precise details included in these two items - and I'd probably botch it up in the process. These two represent a real bargain.

But paint, well, it is not quite so precise. Yes there are standards, but even they change. Those for the USAAC changed 4 times during the course of WWII, in fact. I don't even want to try to guess how many changes occurred within the Luftwaffe, considering the vagaries of wartime production.

Keeping the latter in mind, and knowing the Stukas had a pretty basic paint scheme, let's say I plunge in and mix my paint for that Gustav from craft acrylics. Ive done it before, after all...

I use color samples from one of the many resources we have available today, like this one: RLM Color List

It turns out fine and I get to the end. Yay! Everyone says, "Good job," or "Looks great!"

So, where's the problem?

If you read my initial entry into this thread you probably noted that I had to do some tinkering to be able to work with these craft paints. But I can summarize this for you:

1. Thin to about 50:50, paint-to-thinner, using the thinner recipe Ive given.

2. Prep the plastic as usual and use a fine grained primer.

3. Spray the paint using a single action airbrush and don't get too complicated with your schemes.

4. Test your application on scrap BEFORE spraying on the model; adjust as needed.

5. Apply in light coats, building up layers slowly.

6. Buff each coat, using a T-shirt, after it has dried.

This is very little more than you are probably already doing, no matter WHAT paint you are using. So do as you wish, and enjoy your time spent within the hobby. Smile, brother - life is good.

Edited December 29, 2010 by dahut

[made2000]

Lol no acounting for me I hate numbers ;)... I think I'll ethier break down and get the paint that goes thru airbrushs nicely.. I can get fluid golden acrylics locally and just get a couple of colors.. Or get some cheap spray paints and decant. I can pick the basic colors in spray cans for 1.25 at freds.. I might try these craft paints later on but right now its just to much I mean I"m still getting used the fill of the airbrush dots and lines lol.. So that and the fact those paints are so hard to work with I"m just going to end up putting the airbrush away and saying forget it.. So for now I"m just going to get a few colors of the better stuff. I might even get 1 bottle of the ready to use paint just so I can get used to the brush and how it feels and paint flow, coverage and not have to worry about thinning, that way I'll know what to look for when I'm thinning later.

[dahut]

Lol no acounting for me I hate numbers ... I think I'll ethier break down and get the paint that goes thru airbrushs nicely.. I can get fluid golden acrylics locally and just get a couple of colors.. Or get some cheap spray paints and decant. I can pick the basic colors in spray cans for 1.25 at freds..

So for now I"m just going to get a few colors of the better stuff. I might even get 1 bottle of the ready to use paint just so I can get used to the brush and how it feels and paint flow, coverage and not have to worry about thinning, that way I'll know what to look for when I'm thinning later.

Hmmm, alright then. Let me add some comments about the painting process itself.

- If you are using acrylic model paints, use the craft paints for things like detail painting, weathering, etc. The two are compatible and can be mixied for infinite color variations. It IS silly to spend $4 per bottle on generic colors like black or white, just to dibble around in the cockpit or paint tires. This is another use where I like them.

- Drop a 10-12 sized stainless steel nut into the paint bottle and allow it to bang around inside as you shake it up. This helps to mix the paint better, and stainless wont be affected by acrylic paints.

- Ive not heard of any paint that is totally "ready to use." Invariably, some thinning is needed when airbrushing. Embrace that as a minor complication, just part of the game.

- ALL painting success depends on good preparation. You've built the model carefully, you've prepped its surface to accept paint. Now, prep your work area.

Allow plenty of elbow room and make sure air hoses are routed away from the work space.

Arrange all tools and paints neatly within reach, but away from the model - and keep them in their place as you work.

Have ONLY painting equipment in the vicinity - no other modeling tools, models, etc.Clutter is the enemy.

Cut up old T-shirts into 12 x 12 paint rags and keep them handy.

Spray the area adjacent to the paint site with a mist of water to hold down dust during the painting session. Do this whther you use a spray booth or not.

- Understand the decanting of rattle can paint. First, it is enamel or lacquer based, and is incompatible with acrylics until cured. Don't mix the two, until each is properly cured. Second, it is under pressure and has the tendency to go all over the place. Here's how I decant it:

1. Drill out the spray nozzle (or find one that fits) so as to accept one of the pinpoint straw applicators that come with spray-can lubricants, like WD-40

2. Drill a small hole in the lid of a mixing container, which will accept the straw.

3. Decant the paint into the mixing container through the hole in the lid. This prevents making a mess and getting splatters where you don't want them.

4. Mix and/or thin as needed and dispense from the mix container with pipettes.

I use 35mm film canisters for all my paint mixing. I get them from 1 Hour photo places. You can also use any container that has a sealed lid, is compatible with paint, and will hold 2-4 oz. of liquid.

I go by the "Rules of Model Painting," which I've come up with over time. Allow me to share them....

A. WORK METHODICALLY.

Do not be in a hurry. Strive to achieve a rhythm to your actions; if you must paint in a rush - wait until you can work unhurried.

B. Work SMALL, in small quantities.

You're dealing with mere ounces of paint, or fractions thereof. So think small.

C. Segregate ENAMEL from ACRYLIC

Work with only one type at a time.

D. Never touch the paint itself... ever.

E. Never pour directly from parent containers, bottles, tins, etc.

Always USE PIPETTES to transfer paint.

F. Mix in only one container and siphon directly to the airbrush using pipettes.

I use cocktail sticks or pieces of sprue to stir paint with.

G. Keep a wide, un-tippable thinner bath near at hand.

This is important. Use this thinner bath as a centralized "dump and drop reservoir." This is where you place the items used during painting as they move in and out of the painting process. This prevents caking and drying, keeps everything right where you need it and keeps your work area tidy.

H. Use latex or white cotton gloves when handling and painting the model.

I. Use a secure painting stand or handle for the model

This can be anything from folded cardboard to one of the manufactured painting jigs. Make sure it holds the model securely.

J. Allow adequate natural curing time, under a dust-free cover.

Avoid the urge to hasten the curing time in a kitchen oven... don't ask how I know this! I use a cardboard box lined with aluminum foil to cover curing paint.

All of this sounds complicated, I know. But your entire effort, everything you've done to this point, hinges on success in the painting process. Don't cheat yourself once you've arrived there.

Edited December 30, 2010 by dahut