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Little Miss Mischief Diorama


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Thanks Stephen. Still much to do, wiring and what have you, but it's coming along. Still don't know how you managed to build that huge bird in 4.5 months. After the wiring is done, then it'll be a matter of getting that little tool box in there. The No. 6 bulkhead wont be built until both starboard and port fuselage halves are together, then it'll be a simple "plug" method of using a cut-out template, and cutting it into the very paper thin evergreen sheet (paper thin stuff).

That bulkhead will be covered in high heat metal tape on one side, and just painted silver on the inside. The frame will be added as the bulkhead would have had it - but seeing as the window to the top of the radio room will be opened up, along with the door, and no waist section in the way, the No. 6 bulkhead will be easily seen, and so I want to make it as close to scale thickness as posslbe. But, once that bulkhead is built, and the radio equipment installed on it, then the one mechanic will be put in place, crouching at the door, waiting to help "line-up" the waist section and start attaching it. At least that's the game plan in my head. I might throw his jacket over the seat back as well...

Cheers!

Mark.

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It makes me want to start my 1/48th B-17, but at present, I don't have the time. This thread however is a great resource for ideas and order of detailing. It will certainly be useful when it comes to my build. There are features from my Hangar Queen I'd like to do in the larger scale, but I expect that most of my detailing will be scratch built as I don't like spending money!!

Edited by Army_Air_Force
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There is a significant amount of AM that was used for this build, but as can be seen, it's only been a few parts from here, and a few from there, and the rest scratch built.

If I could go back to the beginning, the one set I would have is the full Eduard set for the interior. Their details on the pre-painted PE parts (such as the instrument panels, radio equip, etc) is second to none. If you're going to do a straight OOB build, or a full out build, the one thing I strongly suggest though above anything else, is the Masters .50 cal barrels. These are simply amazing!

Once this build is done, I'm going to be going through it all and doing a very thurough - no punches held - review of the AM sets. What's good, what's bad, what's a waste of money. All in all though, at least at this point though, the one manufacturer that is better than the rest when it comes to accurate research and parts... is Monogram. Sure, their parts may not be the most crisp, and well detailed, but, with a little bit of adding details here and there, they are by far the most accurate.

Anywho, Stephen, I really like your builds, and can't wait to see what you're doing with that 1/48 you mentioned.

Cheers,

Mark.

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I'm gonna have to check out the Masters barrels for the Belle, I've been staring at the Eduard sleeves and dreading them! I agree whole heartly on the Monogram statement, they may not have the best of the line, but they have the market cornered on the 1/48th Fort, and even though its not that crisp, a little TLC makes for an outstandig model.

Don't forget to bash the Verlindin Cheyenne mount for me!!! :D

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Don't forget to bash the Verlindin Cheyenne mount for me!!! :D

Oh... don't get me started. It's so rediculously hit or miss here. For an aircraft as well know, photographed, written about, documented, and well... popular as the B-17 is, the AM... well... leaves a lot to be desired. From made up parts as to how they should be, to parts that don't fit a kit that has been around for a heck of a long time, there is really little that is worth the full price tag.

There are good things though, don't get me wrong! Some sets have the 'one of' items, like Verlindens landing gear - able to show it with no weight on wheels (specific to the struts), but then there is a complete botch, like you mentioned, with the Cheyenne turret for example. It's easiest almost to give a list of what's best by part replacement, rather than by maker. Prime example would be the nose section by TD compared with that of Eduard, and Verlinden:

A. Your best bet when it comes to the nose section framing, is simply to scratch build the framing. There is enough to do with the TD set that it leaves me wondering why it was purchased. Specific to the framing that is. The floor section provided for the nose though is good, and is a superb base to start working from. Though there is a little bit that needs to be done for the fitment issues, but once in, and lined up, you're good to go with it.

B. The best AM Norden bombsight, hands down, is the resin one made by Verlinden. If you happen to have that one, and the PE detail set from Eduard, you're laughing. That being said, the stock kit Norden with the Eduard set will make a lovely gem just the same. The unique things that are offered by Verlinden in the PE is the framing for the plexiglass nose section to fit into. It's great for the nose with the cone, or without.

C. The best .50's for the kit... well, if you're willing to shell out the money for it, get the Aires sets - yes, you'll need to get at least 2 to fit out the B-17 Completely. How do the Verlinden ones compare? VERY CLOSE! But when it comes to barrels... throw away the resin ones, as it's more often than not that they are bent in one way or another. If you don't want to go for the Masters barrels, keep the kit ones, and drill into the cooling jacket just a little deeper to make it sharper. What I do love about the Masters barrels, is that the cooling jacket is seperate from the barrel itself, so if you want to show a post/pre mission -17 without the gut's of the .50's inserted yet, you're free to do so.

D. The best seats to use are either the Verlinden or TD seats for the Bombardier and Nav, they're, both fairly similar, and will give you a great seat. That being said, the stock ones from the kit are just fine as well. Only thing needed to be done is making the 4 leg base or swivel base for the seats. None of the sets gives you something to use with regards to this. The Verlinden set has a PE frame to sit overtop of the Chin Turret housing, but unless you want it to look like you're sitting on bent sheet metal, the PE is no good.

E. The Eduard set for the nose gives a lot of great little details, from the oxygen regulators, to the power outlets, to various panels and such. But, overall, what's missing... the Navigators position, his table, and details that could be added there. No lamps anywhere to be seen for example! (And that goes for all the sets)

This is just a quick summary off the top of my head. My biggest pet peeve with these sets is that you shell out money expecting to get something superb, but are left wanting in most cases. What's more, and this is the biggest ball dropped, is that although there are many interchangeable items between the F & G models of the B-17, almost everything is focused on the G model only. The F is only by luck that you have something to work with, but if you want to go earlier in the B-17 series, bust out the plastic evergreen with a side order of patience and research.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of pro's to these AM sets as well. And the reviews on them will be very thurough as to what is good, what is great, what is bad, and what is outright wrong or missing. My hope is to be able to write individual reviews for all the AM I used (each specific set), but also linked together so that if you are looking for something very specific, you'll be able to get the answers to any questions you are looking for. I want to be clear, I never expected all the answers to come in one box, nor did I expect to build this kit the way I am without the need to scratch build. I just do like the notion that there is such a high price tag for AM sets that given the quality and accuracy of parts (or the lack there of), shouldn't be listed at a cost that sometimes challenges the price tag of the kit itself.

Thanks for reading this. I really am writing this without a chip on my shoulder. Each one of these sets has certainly helped in the progress of this build. Nor do I want to stear anyone away from purchasing them if they desire to. My goal is just to give a good review and show what these sets actually are.

Mark.

Edited by Kostucha
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I probably wouldn't mind spending some money if the parts were accurate and fitted well, but from what I've heard here and elsewhere, don't expect a miniature Boeing product when you buy AM parts!

I may splash out on one engine for my Fort, so I can have one with the cowls off. Which engine would be best to go for?

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Vectors 1/48 R-1820 for the B-17 is superb!

There are three choices for AM engines that are worth considering (all 3 require having the push-rods done properly):

1. Quickboost - comes with 4 beautifully cast engines, and the closed cowl flaps. If you're going with the closed cowls and want something more than the stock parts, I'd go for these. Be weary though, they don't come with the prop governer, nor do they have the small air intake cones between a couple of the cylinders. They do however fit like a glove inside the kit cowls, and mount onto the engine nacells with no modification required of the kit itself - aside from cutting off that tiny 1mm diameter nipple at the front of the mount point on the kit nacells (the nipple that ensures the prop shaft stays forward and in place)

2. Aires - single, complete Late R-1830. Again, beautiful casting, and does come with the PE for the ignition wires. That being said... I'd give the resin casting an 8/10, and there's a bit of fudging on the engine aft of the cylinders, but you do get a nice air scoop, but is missing the prop governer assembly on the front of the engine. You do get the wire included for the pushrods, but as mentioned above, you'll need thinner wire to have it look right. The PE wire harness is great, BUT, it's inaccurate. Take that for almost $24.00 USD (on average) plus shipping, etc... and it's a pricey piece of resin.

3. Vector - R-1820, with a SUPERB casting of the resin. Easy to assemble, once you figure out what the heck the instructions are trying to get you to do. Take the non-descriptive instructions aside, and you get what you want. Accurate ingition harness (2 halves on both sides of the crank case), accurate crank case, cylinders that have cooling fins beautifully cast, and has the back of the engine molded as though the engine came out of the shipping crate. It doens't have the air scoop between the cylinders as with the other two, and just like the other two, you need to throw in the plate between cylinders if you'd like. Does require ignition harness to be connected (from the harness to the plugs), and push rods, but the guides are already tapped into the resin, and they are appropriately staggared. I picked up each engine for $15.00/piece + shipping

There is a very real reason why I've opted to go with 1 Quickboost engine in the crate, and sling 4 engines in on LMM, where I'm opening up only 1 cowl. They are worth it, there is no doubt in my mind. Just my 2 cents. (check back a few pages Stephen, and you'll see what the Vector allows you to build)

Mark.

Edited by Kostucha
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No worries!

Not much done to report on tonight. A couple of rags, empty and beaten up fire extinguisher mount, tool box and tool/kit bag strewn across the radio room floor. Still lots to do, like beat up the portion of the floor left visible, and a few other things. I really wasn't up to wiring anything tonight, I'll leave that for the weekend I think:

DSC07695.jpg

Here is the shot I used for the fire extinguisher bracket and a few other things. This is LMM right after her return, managed to aquire a HUGE version of the picture. What's key here isn't what's visible, but what isn't. Not all Forts had the small O2 bottle under the table in the radio room. Given where they are mounted, and whats seen in this crop of the pic, it's a fair guess to say that LMM didn't have one either (there is something there, but it doesn't look big/wide enought to be the bracket and the round green bottle). Note the empty bracker lacking the brass fire extinguisher just above the table:

crop1.jpg

There is a door there though, so that'll be added as well fairly soon. I don't know, maybe I'm too tired, but if someone see's something there that I'm missing, please comment!

Thanks for looking,

Mark.

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Just a quick visit, looking good. The unit on the right forward floor of the radio compartment is the dynamotor for the command radio transmitters. On later airplanes it was moved on the bulkhead above the radio operators table which you also have. There should only be one of those units per airplane! The one on the floor is correct for LMM. Oh, those angled items on the floor are covering aileron cables. The spar is actually attached to the periphery of the bulkhead.

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Karl, where would I be without you!

So... finally, taking something apart, rather than putting together! And thank you kindly for the technical info.

I have been making progress on the work bench... but not with LMM, rather clearing some room by getting that Spitfire Vb finished. I'll have pictures up soon.

Cheers,

Mark.

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So... picture this... Radio room (starboard side) is complete with window and everything, and the smaller little details are done in the flight deck. Scratch built center bomb racks are also complete (the building that is), and now it's just the painting of it that is left. Not having a laptop... sucks!

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Alright!

The radio room was a bit of a pain, as the floor itself was a bit slanted. However, with a quick application of a small piece of evergreen (2 x 2 mm and about a cm long), managed to get a good support bracket done and the floor now sits level. There were a couple of other items that were added and removed. Just as Karl mentioned, the dynamotor for the command radio transmitters was removed from above the desk. There was also a lamp that was added, as well as all the applicable wiring on the desk. Further to this, a few items were added underneath the desk. All these items were found within the reference books, and as best as possible, I ran within a believable production block of where LMM came into play, hopefully eliminating the chance of having something in there that wouldn't have been installed. Last but not least, the door was built and installed.

The two fuel transfer selectors located in the flight deck, against the bulkhead just below the door were also installed, as well as the replacement for the missing throttle control that broke off from the throttle quadrant. So, that's all done there, and last but not least, a couple of lamps were installed near the instrument panel.

As for the bomb bay, and the walk way/bomb rack, the paragon set is a good one... if you don't add the roof to the bomb bay. The set, just like the stock pieces from the kit, are designed to reach up into the ceiling of the turtle deck. That, and given the building that went on in the bomb bay, the Paragon walk way didn't line up correctly, so using the appropriate evergreen rods, the catwalk was scratch built first, with the appropriate electric motor at the forward end built as well. Then the bomb racks that straddle the catwalk were done the same way as the previous one was mounted to the starboard side of the fuselage. All that is left to do is to paint them all, give them some wear and tear, and then once dry, glue that sucker in. My only question though, is those ropes you see between the bulkheads and bomb racks for walking across the catwalk, were they there? And if so, did the styles vary as much as is seen on the bombers around today?

From here, it's a matter of working the port side fuselage side. First thing to do is to complete the framing in both the bomb bay and the radio room, then build up the turtle deck in the radio room to match the starboard side. I'm still not sure if I'm going to put a .50 on the mount in there, or just have it removed completely. I've still had a hard time confirming whether it was there, or not... frustrating at times. None the less, once we've got that section built up, it's painting the whole side with the applicable colours to match the starboard side. Once done, then the fuselage side details will be added (I.e., oxygen bottles in the flight deck, navigators station (table, lamp, various items in there as well), all the applicable windows, pilots seat and control column, and all the wiring throughout, including the other details in the bomb bay).

Once it's all set and I'm happy, there's going to be a lot of patience in the dry fitting portion of what's left:

-Forward floor in the nose for the bombardier

-Upper vac-formed flight deck roof/windscreen

The forward floor wont be too difficult to do, and once it's finished, this will be glued into the starboard side to match up with the floor already there, making sure that it's all lined up and appropriately level. As for the vac-formed flight deck roof & windscreen, both pilot & co-pilot sliding windows will be opened, the electrical items up top between the two upper windows will be added, and the fit will have to be just nice along the fuselage. All the wiring inside there running down the frames will also be added. Once that's all good to go, then the two halves get glued together (carefully I should add). Once dry, I hope to be able to mount in the upper portion nice and snug. Not much left to do here except build up the upper-turret, and chin turret. With that, the fuselage would be completed, and then it's onto port & starboard wings.

The biggest thing on these is going to be the wheel wells, scratch building all the appropriate detials in there, and then mounting them to the wings. It's going to take come careful mounting of the wings to make sure that they'll be mounted good and strong. Then it's the bare metal foil, painting, mounting the engines, and taking 'er from there. Mounting the main landing gear in without weight on wheels (so, converting the 1/48 B-17F MLG wheels, the verlinden main landing gear struts, the 1/48 B-17G rims, and matching them all up), setting up a jig for the proper angle of the forward portion, building the jack stands underneath, and once that's done, the bomb bay doors will be installed, along with the other finer details (mounting in the chin turret, upper turret, and all the mechanics details around 'er).

And that right there would be about 80% of the work required for this model. All that's left is the shell of the waist section, finishing the tail gunners compartment, vertical & horizontal stabs, rudder & elevator, ball turret (that's going to be FUN!), and all the other small little bitty parts.

Took 13 different B-17's to rebuild LMM... at this rate, it's almost 13 different AM Sets, Models (with parts from both F & G kits), and a heck of a lot of scratch building. Almost right on track...

Thanks for reading!

Hoping for pictures very soon.

Mark.

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The other question, is how was the disassembled (removed) ball turret stored/kept? I doubt it'd be set up with the support structure that supported it in the bomber. I've seen a couple of images of a turret being kept on a wooden frame, but upside down. Finding anything through the net on maintenance of the ball turret to show what this would look like is proving to be quite difficult. Any help is appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark.

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Mark

Once again I must throw out a terrific-1.gif& a wow_rotates.giffor your work to date.

seeing the progress is inspiring (and perspiring).

BUT!

not to be the fly in the ointment, getsmileyCAC3L3QS.gif you DO realize that the month of December 2011 is but 6 days away and the anniversary of your first posting about LMM diorama (28 December 2010 - 03:40 PM)

is but 34 days away? I express concern only because I don't wish for you to be caught unawares :lol:

Seriously from the lower 48, extending to you and yours an inclusion in our Happy Thanksgiving feastb0168f62.gif

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