timc Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Well, the topic says it all pretty much. This is going to be the place holder for my build. I'll probably be doing an OOB cause if I don't, I"ll NEVER finish it by June 2011 <_< Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 What are you gonna do for decals? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Well, the topic says it all pretty much. This is going to be the place holder for my build. I'll probably be doing an OOB cause if I don't, I"ll NEVER finish it by June 2011 Saweeet! Wee Willie would be a nice build! Its unfortunate as to why that bomber is so popular though. Cheers! Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 What are you gonna do for decals? That's easy.... I'll make my own The standard markings are pretty much available on the Kit's World and other decal sheets. Items such as the squadron and plane in squadron codes, the serial number and aircraft letter on the fin are amongst these. For the nose art, which I what I am assuming you are primarily asking about; I have Wee Willie nose art on an Adobe Illustrator file that I made a few years back. I'll update the artwork as needed and print it off on my ALPS MD1300 printer. My issue is going to be trying to replicate the B-17F style nose that she had installed at the time she went down. The "standard" G nose that comes in the Revellogram kit is ok for when Wee Willie was new, but somewhere in her career she got a more elongated nose (which I refer to as the B-17F style but without any gun divots in it). That is going to be the achillies heel that I have to overcome. I'll probably end up vacuforming one after roughing one out of balsa or some other material. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mungo1974 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Interesting... I never knew Wee Willie had a nose job,do you have any pics showing the nose at the time it was lost? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) 1st picture is of Wee Willie, March 1st 1945. Notice the pointed nose glazing resembling a B-17F. Compare the nose of the first picture to the nose of the second. You should notice that the noses are quite different, the second being more indicative of the Revellogram offering. Bowden, Ray. (1993). Plane Names & Fancy Noses, The 91st Bomb Group (Heavy), United States Army Air Force. Design Oracle Partnership. UK pp. 240-241 Edited January 2, 2011 by timc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
100th BG Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hi Tim: Is there some reason you don't want to do "Wee Willie" earlier in it's career? Or do you want to do it as it was for its final mission? It is interesting that Bowden's book says there were no survivors while other references say the tail gunner and pilot survived. Any idea which information is correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) I just like the faded OD/NG and the severe worn look to a well used aircraft. She was on her 128th mission when she was shot down. I chose Wee Willie for three reasons. First and primarily because nobody has ever done markings of her before. Secondly, I have the original B-17 in Action book (got it when I was very young...still has a $3.95 price printed on the cover) and it lists Wee Willie as an original B-17G of the group and once I saw that devastating series of photos of her demise, I knew I had to build her at some point in my modeling lifetime. Lastly, I thought I would build a tribute to those men who gave the last full measure of devotion (as did so many others) when the end was so near. I have a casualty report for the April 8, 1945 mission for this aircraft (333) and it lists Lt. Fuller (pilot) as the only survivor. There are four listed as MIA and the tail turret gunner is one of them along with the navigator, waist gunner and ball turret gunner and all four are listed on the wall of the missing in the Netherlands (obviously done after the war). Haavelar's book also corroborates that Lt. Fuller was the only survivor. I have the entire combat history (1942-1945) of the 91st BG (H) on 16mm microfilm but there's not many places to go that I can look at the rolls, most microfilm machines in libraries are 35mm. There are many, many 17G's I'd love to build from the 91st group. Some of the ships went the distance only to be lost before the end. Ships like Fifenella, Ack-Ack Annie, Hi-ho-Silver, Ole Battle Axe and many others...some made it, some didn't. However, I'd have to do the artwork for each one and while that doesn't seem like much, it's a daunting task to someone like me who only dabbles with Adobe Illustrator. It would take me a long time to research the colors of the artwork and produce the nose art. There's been loads of 91st ships produced on decal sheets in the past and while some were fairly well done (and at least one that I can think of that was extremely well done), the vast majority were bastardizations of the real thing. I couldn't think of doing something half-assed (if you'll pardon my expression) so I hold off until hopefully, more information surfaces. Someday, maybe I'll do a decal sheet with these obscure but famous 91st ships and offer it for sale. With the announcement of the Wingscale 1/32 B-17G, it may be closer than I might think. Edited January 2, 2011 by timc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mungo1974 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thanks for posting the images of the nose,for some reason i'd gotten it into my head you were talking about a B-17F style nose with hand held guns....i know some units did strip the chin & ball turrets off their aircraft during the last weeks of the war...less drag=more speed. As for the type shown in the pic,couldnt you use one from the Paragon YB-40 set? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 I suppose I could if I knew what it looked like and had a copy of it. I'm thinking that the Paragon set is either OOP or is somewhat expensive. It seems an awful waste to buy the conversion set just for the one piece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil marchese Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) 1st picture is of Wee Willie, March 1st 1945. Notice the pointed nose glazing resembling a B-17F. Compare the nose of the first picture to the nose of the second. You should notice that the noses are quite different, the second being more indicative of the Revellogram offering. Bowden, Ray. (1993). Plane Names & Fancy Noses, The 91st Bomb Group (Heavy), United States Army Air Force. Design Oracle Partnership. UK pp. 240-241 Actually the apex of this nose is rather high and it is seemless, or appears so in this lighting. It is niether the button nose of the old Airfix kit with the hemisperical seem at the" equator" nor the typical F nose where the seam runs down from the apex to the dimples in the lower nose cheeks. http://www.100thbg.com/mainmenus/351st/images03/1_44_2.jpg I wouldn't sweat the nose too much. The subject will carry the build , as you said at the top of the string. The Boeing decal for the common data block elements shows to good effect too. The decal was OD and black. Edited January 16, 2011 by Phil marchese Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ok, I'm gearing up...just won an earlier release Monogram G off Ebay and will use that for Wee Willie. I have a visible fort that I bought a year or so ago (when it was re-released) but I'm saving that for a late model G as it has the pumpkin tail turret... the staggered waist guns won't be a hard addon. After they porked the guns on the ProModeler release (adding the vented barrels that make the gun barrels a scale 6" in diameter in my minds eye) I try to find the early releases of the kit to build my representations from....the visible will be an exception I'm afraid but if I get an early "parts kit" I may be able to substitute the early guns. My other option is to invest in Master Barrels .50's and replace those scale 6" diameter barrels with them. Oh rats, I've got to paint my hobby room aka "man cave" according to my wife before I get started...now let's see, where did that airbrush go with the REALLY wide tip Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Kits world has released a set of decals for "Wee Willie" While they are nice, they are not as accurate as I would have liked. The colors they've chosen for the nose art (the name, the little bomb the baby is holding and the large bomb he's riding) are not what I have discovered through email correspondence with the tower museum (at Bassingbourn) and other sources. The name "Wee Willie" should be white (same color intensity as the diaper). The little bomb should be yellow, the larger bomb, red. While there's nothing I can provide to absolutely refute their interpretation, common practice from the artist (Tony Starcer) and my other sources lead me to the conclusions I have drawn above. The squadron codes look too large and the plane in squadron code on the tail is in the wrong place (too far forward). The KitsWorld interpretation seems to be early in her career since she does not have the red wingtips and stabilizers added in July 44 nor does she have many mission markings. Well anyway, we now have a Wee Willie. Oh I almost forgot.... Looking at the photos of the nose between this photo and the one I posted awhile ago, the shape differences are readily apparent. I lifted the above image from the KitsWorld website Edited April 19, 2011 by timc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HANG THE EXPENSE Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Kits world has released a set of decals for "Wee Willie" While they are nice, they are not as accurate as I would have liked. The colors they've chosen for the nose art (the name, the little bomb the baby is holding and the large bomb he's riding) are not what I have discovered through email correspondence with the tower museum (at Bassingbourn) and other sources. The name "Wee Willie" should be white (same color intensity as the diaper). The little bomb should be yellow, the larger bomb, red. While there's nothing I can provide to absolutely refute their interpretation, common practice from the artist (Tony Starcer) and my other sources lead me to the conclusions I have drawn above. The squadron codes look too large and the plane in squadron code on the tail is in the wrong place (too far forward). The KitsWorld interpretation seems to be early in her career since she does not have the red wingtips and stabilizers added in July 44 nor does she have many mission markings. Well anyway, we now have a Wee Willie. Oh I almost forgot.... Looking at the photos of the nose between this photo and the one I posted awhile ago, the shape differences are readily apparent. I lifted the above image from the KitsWorld website I hope that its ok to add to this.I'm new here but a real old hand on B-17s.Models and the real ones.You are correct on the nose glazing.I just found out that Koster is/has done the different F model glazings which is fantastic.I cant wait to see the model when its finished. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 @ Hang The Expense, WELCOME!!! Hope you enjoy the forums! Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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