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1/32 Tamiya F-4E post-Vietnam- Kicked up a notch.


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You got it backwards as far as the shrink link. What that actually does is compress the main gear strut oleo as the landing gear retracts so it'll fit in the well, otherwise the main gear wells would have had to be much longer to fit the fully extended strut oleo. The scissors on the back of the strut was what kept the oleo from over-extending when the weight was off the wheels.

Scott Wilson

I guess I should have quoted the entire explanation from Jake`s book (page 160) as follows:

`The silver rod protruding from the rear of each strut is the `shrink link`. This device prevents the over extension of the strut after the weight is taken off the wheels and keeps the strut short enough to fit inside the wheel well during retraction of the landing gear.`

Hey! I`m just a modeler! :rolleyes:

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I guess I should have quoted the entire explanation from Jake`s book (page 160) as follows:

`The silver rod protruding from the rear of each strut is the `shrink link`. This device prevents the over extension of the strut after the weight is taken off the wheels and keeps the strut short enough to fit inside the wheel well during retraction of the landing gear.`

Hey! I`m just a modeler! :rolleyes:

And wouldn't you know it, I was thinking I ought to go in the basement and check my copy of Jake's book to see what he'd said before I posted that, but decided not to bother... I'm pretty sure Jake is mistaken about the over-extension being prevented by the shrink-link.

Scott W.

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And wouldn't you know it, I was thinking I ought to go in the basement and check my copy of Jake's book to see what he'd said before I posted that, but decided not to bother... I'm pretty sure Jake is mistaken about the over-extension being prevented by the shrink-link.

Scott W.

Scott,

All I know is that I know squat about Phantoms. I`m a “monkey see, monkey do†kind of guy when building a model, so I`m sure that both you and Jake are correct, with a few minor differences. Please keep plugging away with your input as you see fit. We all benefit from it! :rolleyes:

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Thanks Guys.

No real update today, other than a heads up the next real progress will take a few weeks because:

1) I just painted the landing gear in my favorite white paint, MM enamel Insignia White. As good as this paint is, it takes FOREVER to dry properly, mostly because it's enamel paint, it's white and it's semi-gloss- all reasons to dry slooooooow for some reason. When it does dry, however, it will be very tough, just the right gloss for landing gear and I can add a water based wash without the need for a Future coat. :whistle:

2) I also painted the gear compartments BEFORE assembly into the fuselage, because it's a lot easier to do it this way because I can paint from both above and below. On the Tamiya F-4 kits, this is a must to get them painted easily and correctly.

3) I added lots of plumbing detail and other stuff to the gear and gear compartments, above and beyond the Eduard photo-etch set. I think it looks really good so far, but I'd like to add detail painting and a wash to the gear before I show too much of it. See Point # 1 and # 2 above.

4) I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks (the real reason!), which is why I painted the above now so that it could dry before I start playing around with it later.

Until then here's a few pics before detail painting and weathering.

A little hydraulic detail in the main gear before painting...

Gear6.jpg

The auxiliary air doors need some more detail as well....

Gear7.jpg

After painting, but before any detail painting or weathering against a unpainted F-4 C/D fuselage for comparison....

Gear9.jpg

The front gear well with a bunch of edits against the same F-4 C/D fuselage bottom for comparison. See any differences?....

Gear8.jpg

Once the above has dried properly, has been detail painted and weathered, I'll be able to show the final results.

See you in a couple of weeks- and thanks for your continued interest in this long-term build!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello Chuck just spent a few enjoyable hours (rather than days on previous 56K) reading through your latest project. It’s all here, research, skill, application, execution and endurance.

Two questions come to mind: (i) will your polished oleos remain shiny without the white metal materials (Pb, Sn?) oxidising?; (ii) are you going to do something about the method of fixing the gear legs, i.e. instead of the plates/screws method, in keeping with all the other great detail?

Trust you had a good holiday and that the knees are sorted.

Regards

John

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Two questions come to mind: (i) will your polished oleos remain shiny without the white metal materials (Pb, Sn?) oxidising?; (ii) are you going to do something about the method of fixing the gear legs, i.e. instead of the plates/screws method, in keeping with all the other great detail?

Regards

John

Hi John,

It's great to have you check in- and even better to see you post WIP threads again. I haven't had time lately to do any modeling, much less respond to other threads like your excellent A-7 build. Besides a short vacation, I've had a funeral (mother-in-law) and other matters that took priority, but I'm about to jump back into this build very soon. The other delay has been deciding on what parts to do next, especially the rear of the fuselage where you can attach the titanium lower part and horizontal stabilizers later after painting, but the fit isn't terrific, so I'm likely better off making sure everything fits snug and the gaps are fixed first. I'm also dealing with the larger after-market burner cans and how they will fit after the lower fuselage has been assembled. I may have to paint and install them first, just to make sure I'm not sorry later.

For the oleos, I sprayed them with a clear gloss lacquer to prevent oxidation and to add a bit more shine. The white enamel paint has now cured to a hard semi-gloss and is now ready for painting details and a weathering wash. I haven't had a chance to install the gear legs yet, but I do know that the front gear mounting screw is hidden under the gear door piston assembly, so it's not an issue. I'm not sure how the rear legs will look when attached, but it sounds like I have some more scratch-building in my future if I read your "heads-up" correctly!

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Chuck, welcome back from the time off. Sorry to hear about your mother in law's passing.

I just realized I never commented on you gear legs and bays work: Very nice indeed and what a huge difference it makes compared to the kit originals.

Cheers,

Marcel

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Thanks Guys for the kind words. Now some progress, albeit small.

One of the biggest challenges of this Tamiya kit is to get the massive lower fuselage installed properly and to paint the rear lower fuselage part along with the horizontal stabilizers in the characteristic titanium metallic color. The lower fuselage is HUGE and it takes a lot of dry fitting and tweaks to get it to fit properly, especially after adding the seamless intakes. You need six arms all at once to get things put together before the glue dries. Meanwhile the rear titanium parts would be nice to paint separately and install them later, but the fit is sort of crappy. I've seen some builds that cut the horizontal stab's off in the middle in order to install them later, but I really like how they fit and slide within the fuselage, so cutting them now invites a lot of fit problems later. My solution, which I've done before on my F-4J build, is to follow the instructions and get everything put together first. As weird as it may seem, sometimes the instructions are actually the best method!

The main fit problem with the rear lower part is that the upper fuselage is too wide, so it overhangs a bit and looks bad. Here's my attempt to fix this problem while the glue dried. I also added the reinforcement plates from the F-4EJ kit to the horizontal stab's, because the decal instructions show that it exists on this Vietnam era early F-4E. I don't believe the "regular" F-4E kit has these plates. Anybody know if I'm making a big mistake here? They can easily be peeled off if I am.....

LowerFuselage1.jpg

Unfortunately this method worked on the port side, but not so hot on the starboard side, so I still have some work to do. I'll use CA glue to fill the gaps, align the parts, then sand, re-scribe the panel lines and add some rivet detail. BTW, the front panel line where it joins the upper fuselage doesn't exist.....

LowerFuselage2.jpg

The front area fit fairly well, although it's a bit short at the very front, which is no problem since I plan to add some minor scratch parts to the interior of the front gear well. With the nose installed, you won't see anything.....

LowerFuselage3.jpg

The area around the seamless intakes fits very well, but that's mostly because I spent a bit of time getting it to dry fit properly before gluing. That little ramp area at the front should be filled in and smoothed out...

LowerFuselage4.jpg

Although there are a couple of screws holding the top to the bottom near the middle of the wings, you still need some glue to suck up the wing to the fuselage behind the gear well detail on the side of the fuselage. I'll touch up the white paint, add a bit more detail, then add a weathering wash before I install the upper wing. You also should add some reinforcement to the wing to fuselage join, but I'll deal with that later.....

LowerFuselage5.jpg

Another angle. The piping detail on the side fuselage is from the Eduard kit......

LowerFuselage6.jpg

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Since I wasn't sure if I could slip the burner nozzles on later, I thought I'd paint them up now, just in case I needed to install them before assembly of the lower fuselage parts. These after-market nozzles are the correct diameter, so for a more detailed explanation of them, see post #74 and #109.

Pics of the real deal show that they are always very dirty looking and complex, with a multitude of different weathering patterns and colors. Some are very dark and sooty looking, while others are a light silver color. Meanwhile, the interior seems to always have a reddish/brown tinge to the metallic parts. To get this mottled look, I first used an oil wash followed by a Sharpie felt pen on the side of the nozzle petals....

Can1.jpg

Taking accurate looking pics under a strong lamp of metallic parts is very hard to do, but you can probably see some of the mottled effect I was trying to accomplish. I used a variety of Alclad paints and oil washes to get to this stage.....

Can2.jpg

The reddish interior. Excuse the dust, which came from rubbing the cans with a paper towel....

Can3.jpg

My only criticism of these cans is that the petals are too thick at the back. Otherwise, I was fairly happy with them.

When you install them, those little side pieces of metal trim have a ridge that you must cut off. They are required to center the undersized kit nozzles, but for the much wider after-market ones, they only get in the way....

Can4.jpg

Unfortunately, with all my planning I still screwed up. I was so worried about burner can width I wasn't thinking about length. I used the Aires flame tubes and installed them as per instructions. What I should have done is install them slightly rearwards, because these cans now sit too far inside the fuselage. Here's a pic of the real deal. Note the alignment of the rear of the can is almost exactly along the vertical titanium seam line.....

Can5.jpg

All is not lost, however, because I still have the Aires cans as backup. Here they are (on right) compared to the ones I used. Note the difference in width- and length.....

Burner2.jpg

When installed, they can still look really good even though they are a bit too small in diameter. Here they are on my last F-4J build. What they lack in diameter, they more than make up for in detail, especially on the nozzle petals which are also much thinner......

Can6.jpg

Back to the drawing board! Thanks for your continued interest in this build.

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Hi again Chuck,

The view up inside the aux air doors is the underside of the engine, not a ribbed duct like Tamiya has. The interior structure around the doors was interior green but the bottom of the engine should be very dirty bare metal. Jake Melampy missed the Holy Grail of photos (as far as I'm concerned) when he didn't photograph the front underside of the engine that would be visible through the aux air doors when he was taking photos of the bottom of a Phantom up on jacks with the engine bay doors open. With the bay doors open that whiole area is much easier to see and would've made a wonderful reference for anyone who wants to do the aux air door interior properly.

I have some photos I took with the engine bay doors closed that I shot through the open aux air doors that might be useful for you. Some cottage company recently made a resin insert of the engine bottom visible through the aux air doors for 1/32 Phantoms that looks pretty good, sorry I don't have a link. Maybe someone here does.

During my time working on F-4Es, most stabilators had the triangular reinforcement plates on top, but a few had them on the bottom, while still a very few others didn't have any. And I think we had a couple of jets with the plates both on top and bottom surfaces. Stabilators were changed relatively often, so a jet could go from one configuration stab to another. I suggest you model you jet how you like and don't worry about the plates too much.

Here's my aux air door photos, the first one here is by Kostas Pantios, the rest are mine:

#1 engine

J7920through20AUX20Door202620Door2083.jpg

#1 engine

1auxair1.jpg

#2 engine

2auxair.jpg

#2 engine

2auxair7.jpg

#2 engine

2auxair3.jpg

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Chuck,

I continue to take notes here. Good to see the fusearge coming together, and nice work on the exhausts, even if you will switch to the Aires sets after all the work.

I may ask you for some Alclad tips some time, I need to kae the switch.

:thumbsup:

Marcek

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Thanks for those pics Scott. Although they are much better than the one's in Jake's book, the reality is that I'm not going to go too crazy with exact details within the auxiliary air doors because they are fairly small and with the the doors attached, you can't see much, especially since they're on the bottom. I will, however, paint the upper surfaces silver as per your guidance, so again thanks!

Nice work so far. Have you thought about trying the Eduard Brassin burner cans for size and detail?

I have a few sets of these but the Aires cans are just about as good without them and I don't want to thicken them any more than they are already. Stay tuned for a better burner can effort in the future!

I may ask you for some Alclad tips some time, I need to make the switch.

:thumbsup:

Marcel

Hi Marcel. I'll be doing a lot of Alclad work on the rear titanium areas. Although Alclad sprays beautifully and thin, it's fragile without a primer coat and rubs off easily when masked and handled with oily hands. I plan on using gloss black as a primer coat, but since it dries so slow I better get moving on it soon!

Now a little bragging, if you guys don't mind. I took a break on this build earlier to submit an article to Fine Scale Modeler Magazine on a recent 1/48 Tamiya Lancaster I made for my uncle, who was a bomb-aimer on Lancs for the RAF during WWII. I've never done anything like this before, and it turned out to be a lot more work than I imagined. I even had to re-take some of the photographs so that they showed the entire model completely, which I have below shrunk down a bit from the originals. After a few weeks of evaluation, I'm very happy to say that FSM will not only publish a multi-page feature on this build in their magazine, but they even paid me a nice sum to do so! Heck, I would have done it for free if I'd known for sure it would be published. Anyway, here's a few pics you'll see one day in this magazine which they now own, but since I haven't cashed the check yet, here's a sneak peek. I've been warned it could take up to a year for it to make it to print.....

Final51.jpg

Final52.jpg

Final34.jpg

Final17.jpg

Final28.jpg

Edited by chuck540z3
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Hi again Chuck,

The view up inside the aux air doors is the underside of the engine, not a ribbed duct like Tamiya has. The interior structure around the doors was interior green but the bottom of the engine should be very dirty bare metal. Jake Melampy missed the Holy Grail of photos (as far as I'm concerned) when he didn't photograph the front underside of the engine that would be visible through the aux air doors when he was taking photos of the bottom of a Phantom up on jacks with the engine bay doors open. With the bay doors open that whiole area is much easier to see and would've made a wonderful reference for anyone who wants to do the aux air door interior properly.

I have some photos I took with the engine bay doors closed that I shot through the open aux air doors that might be useful for you. Some cottage company recently made a resin insert of the engine bottom visible through the aux air doors for 1/32 Phantoms that looks pretty good, sorry I don't have a link. Maybe someone here does.

During my time working on F-4Es, most stabilators had the triangular reinforcement plates on top, but a few had them on the bottom, while still a very few others didn't have any. And I think we had a couple of jets with the plates both on top and bottom surfaces. Stabilators were changed relatively often, so a jet could go from one configuration stab to another. I suggest you model you jet how you like and don't worry about the plates too much.

Here's my aux air door photos, the first one here is by Kostas Pantios, the rest are mine:

#1 engine

J7920through20AUX20Door202620Door2083.jpg

#1 engine

1auxair1.jpg

#2 engine

2auxair.jpg

#2 engine

2auxair7.jpg

#2 engine

2auxair3.jpg

here is a shot of the engine bay part that I make;

paintedenginebox_.jpg

available at : http://partsrparts.homestead.com/start.html

Bruce

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I just want to say beyond the wow factor, your work is right on the money, the detail has really given me encouragement to apply what you and others bring to modeling.

Tonal

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Hi Chuck,

I read through all fo your pages and sweet memories came back to my mind when I was building the F-E. It was a Revell, but as on yours there was to lot to tweak. I saw you have the help of Scott, all I can say is that you're in good hands.

Have a look at my photo album here on Inageevent, you might get a few hints here and there. Even if my model was a "modern" Greek plane.

Good luck with your build, I will follow it closely :thumbsup:

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Hi Chuck,

I read through all fo your pages and sweet memories came back to my mind when I was building the F-E. It was a Revell, but as on yours there was to lot to tweak. I saw you have the help of Scott, all I can say is that you're in good hands.

Excellent job on that Revell Phantom! I also discovered that Scott is a wealth of first hand knowledge, so I have a bit of a surprise for him at the end.

Also, thanks everyone for your kind words. Now back to some modeling, which I haven't had a chance to do much of lately.

To add detail to the main gear bays, I added some plumbing and other bits with the wing bottom off the fuselage, but when it came time to put stuff together, there was some big gaps at the join against the fuselage. I filled these gaps with styrene, painted everything white, then weathered the bay with ProModeler wash.....

Gearbay1.jpg

With the top of the wing temporarily attached to the bottom, things look pretty good from this angle....

Gearbay2.jpg

....and this angle. Note the additional plumbing and wiring detail...

Gearbay3.jpg

I then attacked the landing gear, to make sure everything fit properly and looked OK when they are attached in the final assembly at the end of this build. Note additional plumbing detail with another ProModeler wash applied. According to pics this gear isn't usually too dirty except for brake dust on the main wheels, so I tried to make it subtle on the other parts. Too often landing gear looks like it was dragged through the mud....

Gearpaint1.jpg

A bit of a close-up of the main gear....

Gearpaint2.jpg

And the nose gear.....

Gearpaint3.jpg

The main gear stuck in the gear well looks OK from here....

Gearbay8.jpg

But there's a big gap at the base where the two wings halves fit together. I'll use CA glue to fill this gap when I put the wings together permanently....

Gearbay9.jpg

Without alteration, the front gear angles forward too much without filing off some of the metal from the back strut where it screws to the fuselage...

Gearbay4.jpg

The landing gear strut attaches under the gear door pivot assembly, which hides the small screw....

Gearbay7.jpg

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With the rear strut filed down, the front gear leg is almost vertical- as it should be. There is LOTS of hydraulic lines on the port side, which I added earlier. Plumbing line brackets will be added later....

Gearbay6.jpg

I also added some ribbing to the gear well at the top near the front, since the kit parts were too shallow....

Gearbay5.jpg

I wish I'd have known about those after-market engine auxiliary doors earlier, but the fuselage bottom was already assembled to the top. Since you can't see much with the doors on and they are on the bottom, I just "winged it" and created some plumbing junk inside with wire and CA glue. Thanks to Scott's advise, I also painted the top in a steel color, leaving the side walls green, the added a bit of wash....

Gearbay10.jpg

OK, it's not very accurate, but it beats the heck out of the kit parts unaltered!....

Gearbay11.jpg

Now the reason I didn't glue the wings together yet. First off, I apologize to everyone for being so wishy-washy on which version of the F-4E I was going to make- Vietnam era with hard wings or post-Vietnam with slatted wings. Well, I finally got my hands on THIS rare kit, which is calling me to the dark side of a post-Vietnam F-4E.

Slatset1.jpg

My Vietnam era bird (69-7551) is now a circa 1980 one from Ramstein AFB in Germany (68-0393), where I believe Scott was deployed. It's painted in SEA camo, has a shark mouth and it has SLATTED wings! I even got a hold of a Cutting Edge high speed center-line tank, so I think I'm set. Stay tuned for wing surgery, panel line alterations and likely a bit of cussing! ;)

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