Alclad?

[Scooby]

Can I put a enamel barrier between it and the plastic?

Cheers,

Gary

[Graham T]

Short answer...yes. I have used it several times over gloss black enamel & the plastic hasn't disintergrated (yet!) Also recently tried their own purpose made primer; quite impressive.

[smithery]

Short answer...yes. I have used it several times over gloss black enamel & the plastic hasn't disintergrated (yet!) Also recently tried their own purpose made primer; quite impressive.

You actually like their primer? I used it twice and had crap results both times. Body was perfectly clean, smooth as a baby's ***, and I handled it with gloves before painting, and the black just went nuts on me. Crazed like no tomorrow. I thinned it out and use it for washes now....not willing to use it for anything else.

To answer your question Scooby, yes. Although they recommend acrylic bases most of the time, I have had no ill effects using MM True Black as my base coat. Just give it lots of curing time to be on the safe side. I use 48-72hrs as my rule of thumb. I also cover the plane with a tupperware dish to give it a nice, slow cure that is dust free.

I've used flat black as well for a satin finish in my motorcycle modelling days, painting frames and such.

[Scooby]

So if I have a cured paint underneath I still need the primer, such as a black?

I am using ALCLAD on the leading edges of a Skyraider. I already have the Gull Grey and Insignia White sprayed. I have the areas masked off.

Therefore, are you telling me that I should spray MM black and wait 48-72 hours? Or should the previous layers of paint protect the plastic?

I have never used ALCLAD before. I have had great sucess with SNJ and Model Master Metalizers.

Thanks!

[smithery]

The previous layers will protect the plastic, but you will tone differences top and bottom. Also, since silver is a "weak" color, the black is generally used to give it some depth, not unlike using white underneath blue, yellow or red.

If the tone differences are not an issue for you, you could just spray some Future on the leading edges to even out the surface. Unfortunately, while Alclad will give you a rock hard finish, as we all know, silver is a VERY unforgiving color when it comes to flaws. Alcald is no exception.

Best bet, try the Alclad over Gull Grey combo on a piece of scrap plastic or leftover sprue.

[Wild Bill]

What Smithery said. If you already have to maske etc for the alclad anyway, it would be worth the extra time to throw on a layer of black first.

I too have used the alclad primer with exceptional results. Far better than I've been able to achieve with Tamiya acrylics, and marginally better than I can do with enamel.

WB

[TF51GREGWISE]

I use alclad pretty regular and the worst thing I ever used as a primer was the Alclad gloss black primer( tooks weeks to dry and still crazed then the alclad finish cracked after a few days totall waist of time and money), I have pretty good results useing MM arcly semigloss black be sure to wipe down the model with iso alcohol prior to primer and let dry 24 + hours

[Sabre]

Hey Scooby,

I chickened out on the leading edges of my 1/48 Tamiya Skyraider! :o Went with silver decal instead and got great results. A lot faster/easier too!

Happy modeling,

Jim :lol:

[Scooby]

It worked! It was awesome!

Thank you all !

[Steve Filak]

Guys-

I still maintain that good old fashioned auto primer, right out of the spray can, is the best undercoat for Alclad. It's easy to apply, is sandable and buffable, and provides an absolute bulletproof, rock hard undercoat for Alclad. Best of all, it dries very quickly. In reality, I could probably spray Alclad about ten minutes after the primer is applied, but I usually give it a half hour just to be sure.

The fact that auto primer is buffable really goes a long way toward a smooth finish with Alclad. You can polish it up to a nice shine in just a few minutes with ordinary paper towel. I use ordinary gray primer, but white and black are also available, as well as a dark reddish brown.

Whatever you do, DON'T use Tamiya Gloss Black as a primer. No matter how long you give it to dry, the finish will eventually craze and crackle. Maybe the stuff in the Tamiya spray cans is OK, but don't use their regular acrylic paints out of the jar. I airbrushed the stuff onto my Academy F-86, let it dry for THREE WEEKS (I figured that it was overkill, but apparently I was wrong), and still wound up with a heavily crackled Alclad finish after several more weeks.

[MickeyThickey]

There seems to be a lot of confusion over the term "acrylic", particularly relating to Tamiya paints. Acrylic doesn't refer to what it's THINNED with - most people think acrylic = water/alcohol based - it refers to the composition of the paint particles. Alclad (the 'normal' shades) is meant to be used over lacquer based acrylic, not water based acrylics. I suspect the issues that come up regarding Tamiya bottles vs. sprays boils down to this mix up. The TS sprays in most hobby shops are laqcuer based acrylics, while the bottle paints in North America (at least) are generally alcohol based.

I personally avoid the whole issue by spraying over Mr. Surfacer. It's the same as Krylon's sandable primers for all intents and purposes, just easier to airbrush, since you don't have to decant it. As SF said, you can spray over it almost instantly (today, f'rinstance, I primed some L-39 bits with Mr.S, cleaned out the airbrush, then sprayed them Alclad) and it sands/polishes to a very high shine, critical for a great metal finish, with the added benefit that it's absolutely bulletproof, and the Alclad WILL NOT react with it.

You CAN spray Alclad over enamels. You can spray it over gloss and flat paints. You can even spray it on bare plastic. It just depends on your technique, and the amount of care you use. However, anything other than a lacquer based acrylic WILL be risky, and more likely to melt, crack, craze or just generally react to what's underneath it.

[Oliver]

I personally avoid the whole issue by spraying over Mr. Surfacer. It's the same as Krylon's sandable primers for all intents and purposes, just easier to airbrush, since you don't have to decant it. As SF said, you can spray over it almost instantly (today, f'rinstance, I primed some L-39 bits with Mr.S, cleaned out the airbrush, then sprayed them Alclad) and it sands/polishes to a very high shine, critical for a great metal finish, with the added benefit that it's absolutely bulletproof, and the Alclad WILL NOT react with it.

O.K., my question is, when I sand and polish Mr. Surfacer, could I use Tamiya polishing compound prior to painting the Alclad ? My concern would be that the A. won't stick anymore because of waxy residue of the compound. Can you polish (with a rotating tool) without any polishing stuff ?

Thanks,

Oliver

[Steve Filak]

I suspect the issues that come up regarding Tamiya bottles vs. sprays boils down to this mix up. The TS sprays in most hobby shops are laqcuer based acrylics, while the bottle paints in North America (at least) are generally alcohol based.

Right. There is a big difference in the formulations, but when I first started using Alclad, I was told by several different people that Tamiya Black (from the jar) was fine as a primer under Alclad..I soon found evidence to the contrary.

  I personally avoid the whole issue by spraying over Mr. Surfacer. It's the same as Krylon's sandable primers for all intents and purposes, just easier to airbrush, since you don't have to decant it.

I'd probably do this myself if Mr. Surfacer were more readily accessible. Using spray primer is more a matter of convenience for me, since I have a lot of it readily available. Next trip to the the auto shop, I think that I'll pick up a small can of non-aerosol primer, and see if the results are any different with the airbrush. To be honest, I'm actually pretty happy with the results from the spray cans, but I'm always willing to try something different if it improves the look of things.

O.K., my question is, when I sand and polish Mr. Surfacer, could I use Tamiya polishing compound prior to painting the Alclad ? My concern would be that the A. won't stick anymore because of waxy residue of the compound. Can you polish (with a rotating tool) without any polishing stuff ?

Chances are that you won't need to. Believe it or not, if you've laid down a smooth coat of primer, and don't have to fix any major goobers, you can get a nice, smooth shine by simply buffing it with a piece of paper towel. It doesn't take a lot of time, and requires very little effort. Using polish over the primer, or buffing it with a motor tool is probably overkill. As long as your scratches are filled, and your primer coat is smooth, you should have no problem bringing the primed surface to a gloss quickly by using paper towels.

[greycap]

i use auto spray under coat from halfords and if i have to repair the surface after the inevitable re sand i use a coat or two of klear[future] .works for me

regards

[TF51GREGWISE]

Steve what brand of auto primer do you use?? I've tried a couple different types and had poor results and krylon gloss black ruined one model with a bad reaction to the plastic I would really like a 10 minute wait between primer/alclad coats.

[Aggie96]

I sprayed the Alclad right over a priming coat of future on this P-51. Worked great...

I believe it actually says you can use future on the alclad bottle...

My $0.02