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Treewizard648

Painting and washing troubles

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So I was working on my Finemolds Tie Fighter, I primed it with Tamiya surface primer. Then I gave it a basecoat of Neutral grey (XF-53) with my airbrush and I used rubbing alcohol as a solvent to break up the grey so I can get an even flow with my airbrush. Then after it dried I used a wash of Black (XF-1) and it was heavily diluted with rubbing alcohol too. When the wash dried I used the q-tip method (I used rubbing alcohol as a solvent again) to rub out the excess black wash so it will leave just the panel lines black. But as I started working at it I started to rub out the basecoat and the surface primer! I damaged the Tie Fighter so badly that I bought a new one. No joke, I damaged the model THAT BAD. So I have the new one stashed away, unassembled, right next to my epic fail Tie :whistle:

So with that, my question is, what did I do wrong? Did I soak my q-tips with too much alcohol? Was I supposed to shield the basecoat with dullcote or something before I applied the wash? Or should I be using rubbing alcohol at all?

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The general rule is, if you paint with acrylics, then wash with oils, and vise versa.

You have used alcohol to thin your paint and then did a wash with the same type of paint and used alcohol to remove the acrylic wash.

You should have used an acrylic clear coat (Future or the like) and oil paint thinned with mineral spirits for your wash.

Tamiya acrylics hold up well to mineral spirits even without the clear coat.

Bob

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Bob just said everything I was going to say—actually, he said it much more succinctly that I would have! :)

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Bob just said everything I was going to say—actually, he said it much more succinctly that I would have! :)

Ross,

Thank you Sir!!

Bob

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What Bob said. However, keep in mind that flat paint does not take a wash at all really, even if you are using an oil wash on say, Tamiya acrylics. You definitely need a clear coat if your paint was flat to do a wash, regardless of which type it was. Unless you are doing a "filter", then that's a different story.

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Thank ya'll for your imput but I think have some more questions now.

1. Clear coat of what? Future? Where can I buy it because last time I checked my local Walmart doesnt have it. :\

2. Bob mentioned "mineral spirits". So does that mean I still use alcohol for thinning the oil based paint?

3. I have seen models washed with thinned out acrylics. I really dont want to go out of my way to buy oil based paint but I suppose I have to if it works best.

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The key here is that you put flat Tamiya on top of flat Tamiya and then used an aggressive agent (alcohol) to remove the wash which removed all the paint.

What you want to try to do is apply a wash in such as way that the amount of effort and agents needed to remove that wash are as easy and least harmful as possible.

A gloss coat (Future or Tamiya Gloss, or any appropriate Acrylic gloss) can help in 3 ways.

1: A nice smooth coat makes it easier to remove the wash, so less scrubbing and less need for aggressive agents.

2: It provides a bit more protection for the underlying coats.

3: It helps the wash flow into all the panel lines, meaning you can be more precise and use less, so there is less to clean up afterward.

Oil paints are a good choice for washing over Acrylics because the paint itself and the thinners (mineral spirits) are not aggressively harmful to the acrylic paint. Mineral Spirits are not Alcohol. If you go this route, go to an art supply store, invest in some oil paints and a can of appropriate thinners.

Some people use a mix of ground up pastel chalk, liquid dish soap and water. The advantage here is that you can remove this easily with water which won't harm the underlying paint if fully cured.

If you really must use Acrylics for the wash then apply a good gloss coat, and thin them well with water and not an aggressive thinning/cleaning agent. A little liquid dish soap may help as well. Some folks use cheaper craft paints rather than modeling paints as they can be less reactive.

At the end of the day, no matter what you use, if you have to rub and scrub like crazy to remove the wash then you are going to damage the underlying paint.

Hope this helps,

Matt

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Thank ya'll for your imput but I think have some more questions now.

1. Clear coat of what? Future? Where can I buy it because last time I checked my local Walmart doesnt have it. :\

2. Bob mentioned "mineral spirits". So does that mean I still use alcohol for thinning the oil based paint?

3. I have seen models washed with thinned out acrylics. I really dont want to go out of my way to buy oil based paint but I suppose I have to if it works best.

Future is still around. Might be called Pledge With Future Shine depending on the age of the bottle. Check supermarkets and DIY big box stores.

No,you do not thin oil based paints with alcohol!!!!

If you want to stay with acrylics for the wash, mix up a solution of the acrylic color you will be using by diluting the acrylic paint with WATER and add some dish detergent to aid in flow...and more importantly with the removal of the excess wash.

Search (or Google) "sludge wash" for different recipes to make it.

Remove the excess with Q tips and small pieces of cloth (T shirt) dampened with WATER!!!!! NOT ALCOHOL OR ANY OTHER THINNER!!!

BOB

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Question regarding the gloss coat. How many coats are required? Doesn't the paint surface affect the gloss coat surface i.e. if the paint surface is grainy/pebbly like (this is due to either incorrect mixture or ambient conditions, still learning how to airbrush!) then won't the gloss coat also have this same appearance especially with Future? I've tried both airbrushing and brushing Future without much success getting a smooth gloss finish.

Mike

Edited by Ichitoe

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Question regarding the gloss coat. How many coats are required? Doesn't the paint surface affect the gloss coat surface i.e. if the paint surface is grainy/pebbly like (this is due to either incorrect mixture or ambient conditions, still learning how to airbrush!) then won't the gloss coat also have this same appearance especially with Future? I've tried both airbrushing and brushing Future without much success getting a smooth gloss finish.

Mike

Good question there Mike, I hope we get an answer for that one too. Anyway I have been looking for Future floor polish online and its around $6.00 a bottle and over $8.00 shipping! Jeebus Cripes!

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Question regarding the gloss coat. How many coats are required? Doesn't the paint surface affect the gloss coat surface i.e. if the paint surface is grainy/pebbly like (this is due to either incorrect mixture or ambient conditions, still learning how to airbrush!) then won't the gloss coat also have this same appearance especially with Future? I've tried both airbrushing and brushing Future without much success getting a smooth gloss finish.

Mike

If all you're doing is putting down a gloss coat for decals and washes, you only need one or two coats of Future (or any other gloss coat). It doesn't matter if it still doesn't look completely glossy and perfect, since you will be overcoating with a flat coat after the decals and weathering are done. If you are looking for a final glossy coat of future, on the other hand, you probably will need to spray two coats--don't try to spread heavy coats, or you will get runs. Just spray wet coats and let them dry.

As for the grainy paint, that's definitely an airbrush problem--the paint dried before reaching the model. The best thing to do in cases like those is to either polish the paint so it's somewhat smooth or strip it and respray.

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