signals Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) how common if possible at all would it be to see a F/A-18F with its canopy open AND ladder up? I plan on arming it with 2 AIM-9x and fuel tanks I have one built up...but am conflicted as to whether I want to keep the canopy open or closed This is the bird I'm trying to model: http://www.mamboccv.com/FA18F_NF102_VFA102_050429.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/f/photoyzu.jpg/ http://img607.imageshack.us/f/photo1sb.jpg/ http://img291.imageshack.us/f/photo2mr.jpg/ Edited February 22, 2011 by signals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 It's your model dude. If you like seeing it with canopy open and ladder up, does it really matter if it's common or not? .... unless you're entering a competition that will nit pick this type of thing, in which case..... disregard my previous comment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cairnsy Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 G'Day Signals, I can't speak for the US Navy Jets and their procedures but the canopy control is at ground level and there fore can be opened without the ladder extended or being 'up top'. The RAAF Jets are usually buttoned up to keep Birds, Bugs, Rain etc out but I guess it is feasible that the US Navy could park them opened up to try to cut cockpit temps before flights given when they are land based they often work from some pretty warm places. As for the Ladder our guys are pretty keen to keep them closed unless being/about to be used to stop them getting knocked around in any Wind or Jet Blast and causing any damage and I imagine that logic would be pretty similar across the board, So I would Say Canopy Up ladder Closed is certainly a possible config you might see a Parked Even at a stretch as Mike said it's your Jet build her how you want! Good luck with your Super Bug Cheers Cairnsy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Going over the pictures on the Navy web site, it seems that this configuration is not uncommon while the aircraft is being towed or soon before/after. Stick a tow bar on the front gear and not even even the most pedantic nitpicker could possibly complain. But no one would complain anyway. Even if the configuration may or may not be seen that much in life, it perfectly fits in with the language of model building. If you want to show off the interior of the cockpit, open the canopy. It's like the chalk outlines in a cop show or the line "Speak now or forever hold your peace" in a movie wedding. It's not part of real life, but it serves a purpose for the viewers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DanW Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Nothing unusual - see the picture I took at NAS Oceana. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
josh1813 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 @ DanW: Nowhere near the qualtiy of your image, but we obviously weren't sitting too far from each other..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Netz Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) It's your model dude. If you like seeing it with canopy open and ladder up, does it really matter if it's common or not? ;).... unless you're entering a competition that will nit pick this type of thing, in which case..... disregard my previous comment ;) If your in a contest and the Judges are nit picking something like that then it's not a contest worthy of competing in.... Most of the contests Ive Judged can be decided on pure basic construction of the kit, thats where the 1st cut is made. But the OP ladder question has pretty much been answered, the ladder can be deployed only by ground crew (unless the pilot wants to precariously hang over the LEX), and the canopy can be opened also by ground crew so there is nothing mechanically tying the two functions together. Curt Edited February 22, 2011 by Netz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 If your in a contest and the Judges are nit picking something like that then it's not a contest worthy of competing in....Most of the contests Ive Judged can be decided on pure basic construction of the kit, thats where the 1st cut is made. My apologies. Didn't mean to offend anyone with my comment. It was more of "tongue-in-cheek" type of comment. I will try to be more sensitive next time. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Netz Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I didn't think it was offensive :} but some people get strange preconceived impressions on how contested are jugged, And I've had some real strange questions asked. Curt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signals Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Ah...so not going to any contests.... I wanted to show a bird that would represent a somewhat likely scenario...and in mine..i don't have any pilots in the cockpit...and hence the questions.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG31 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) I didn't think it was offensive :} but some people get strange preconceived impressions on how contested are jugged, And I've had some real strange questions asked. From the limited participation I've had in judging, we focused our critiques on basic construction, followed by paint and other details. Only when we had two or more entries that were tied for the primary criteria did we look at issues such as subject accuracy. As for the OP, I'd say that since signals is asking the question, then he's interested in the accuracy of how the subject ought to be displayed. I know that I, personally, am a stickler for things like drooped flaps and dilated/contracted exhaust nozzles. I like to display my models the way they ought to appear in a given condition. That means that if I'm opening the speed brake on my F-15 or Su-27, I'll show the aircraft in a mode where hydraulics are powered up. Edited February 22, 2011 by MiG31 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signals Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 As for the OP, I'd say that since signals is asking the question, then he's interested in the accuracy of how the subject ought to be displayed. I know that I, personally, am a stickler for things like drooped flaps and dilated/contracted exhaust nozzles. I like to display my models the way they ought to appear in a given condition. That means that if I'm opening the speed brake on my F-15 or Su-27, I'll show the aircraft in a mode where hydraulics are powered up. Ditto.... Couldn't have (actually didn't) said it any better.... So the above being what I'm going for....how common would it be to see a F-18F parked with the refueling probe out, and ladder stowed to have the canopy open.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Netz Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Ditto....Couldn't have (actually didn't) said it any better.... So the above being what I'm going for....how common would it be to see a F-18F parked with the refueling probe out, and ladder stowed to have the canopy open.... Common, I'd have to say not too. But I'm sure someone will pop up with a photo. If you want to display with the canopy open and nothing else, then I would do it and not stress over it. Who or what are you building it for? Curt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 More importantly...flaps up or down??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signals Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Common, I'd have to say not too. But I'm sure someone will pop up with a photo.If you want to display with the canopy open and nothing else, then I would do it and not stress over it. Who or what are you building it for? Curt pics or it didn't happen :unsure: Edited February 23, 2011 by signals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neeko Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 So the above being what I'm going for....how common would it be to see a F-18F parked with the refueling probe out, and ladder stowed to have the canopy open.... Not common whatsoever. Possible? Of course. Like it was mentioned before, IFR, canopy, and ladder systems work independently of each other. Plausible? Certainly. Any knucklehead in the squadron can walk out to a bird with the IFR probe out, open up the canopy, and walk away... Likely to be seen on a flightline? Nope. Let me qualify that last point: Likely to be seen on the flightline with ladder up, IFR probe out, canopy open, and no ground crew walking towards the canopy stow switch? Not if the squadron has any sense! Refer to the following matrix... Reasons a canopy on a fighter is opened: 1. For aircrew to get in/out. 2. For maintenance crews to perform maintenance where being in the cockpit is required. 3. To attract the lone rain cloud while left unattended on an otherwise peachy-looking day. 4. To cause the overhead sprinklers to go off if left unattended in the hangar bay. (sea or shore) To avoid occurrences of reasons 3 or 4 ruining an otherwise dandy Friday afternoon or port visit day off, it is in the squadron's best interest to keep the canopy closed at all times unless they are in the pursuit of reasons 1 and 2 listed above... That being said, if you want to do your model as you described above, there is nothing wrong with doing so. Just keep in mind that somewhere in the periphery there is a styrene Plane Captain or maintainer being chewed out by a styrene squadron Maintenance Chief to go and close the canopy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bell430 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 When the RAAF Super bugs came to Auckland on there delivery to Australia, all 5 were parked with the IFR probs out and the canopy and ladder stowed. Why would they have parked with the IFR probs out?, as far as I no, they spent the night parked like that, there are pics on airliners.net Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cairnsy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 The In Flight Refuelling probe would be left extended after any flight with In flight refuelling carried out for the Groundies to inspect the probe for damage on the After Flight servicing. Which the RAAF Jets did with the Omega KC-10 on the way over. I dare say if they were going to sit for an extended period the groundies would tuck them away but in that case I think the crew just stow it on start up the next morning. As a side note once again not sure on the USN way of doing it but there is a ground safety lock fitted to the small actuator/strut of the IFR probe just looks like a squarish red collar that wraps around it with an RBF Flag attached just something to consider Also be aware that flaps and slats can be left in any position from closed to fully extended (usually dropped after flight but gets moved due to certain maintenance being performed same goes for the wing folding) however the stabs will always sag with no Hyd power applied unless the flight control locks are fitted. Cheers Cairnsy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bell430 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thanks cairnsy, very informative and logical, it is something that has been bugging me ever scince I saw the pics. How long after shut down would it take the stabs to sag? If I wanted to build an airshow jet which has been siting for the weekend, would that be long enoug to do sagged stabs or does it take like a week for them to sag? Thanks again Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 The flaps and stabs will start to sag fairly quickly, within an hour or so of shutdown ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bell430 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thank you Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The flaps and stabs will start to sag fairly quickly, within an hour or so of shutdown ... Was going to decry the lack of takers on that comment then I realized that 75% of the people involved in that discussion are no longer here. Spongebob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Was going to decry the lack of takers on that comment then I realized that 75% of the people involved in that discussion are no longer here.Spongebob Was my comment wrong, Sponge ? :lol: Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Was my comment wrong, Sponge ? Gregg Gregg when the 1/48th kits of the Super Hornets were released there were some classic flame wars over the accuracy of one versus the other (cutting across websites) and over the position the flaps should be in after engine shutdown. Regards, Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Gregg when the 1/48th kits of the Super Hornets were released there were some classic flame wars over the accuracy of one versus the other (cutting across websites) and over the position the flaps should be in after engine shutdown.Regards, Murph Oh, Okay ... Now I remember about that fiasco ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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