zaxos345 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Good evening guys, can please some one tell me what was the color of the part of the flaps that was visible when the flaps were down on a RAF mustang III with the normal British camo? Was it unpainted aluminium or ZCY? Thanks, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 As far as I can tell unpainted - Looking at 315 Polish Fighter S/Ldr Horbaczewski's Mustang III, it was indeed unpainted. Here's a link to the best shot I've got at work... http://en.valka.cz/files/315_mustang_134.jpg Hope this helps. Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The part of the flap that goes under the wing does indeed look different on Horbaczewski's aircraft but I'm not sure it's unpainted. I think it's just cleaner than the rest of the flap. Looking at some photos of both RAF and USAAF camouflaged Mustangs it seems that the flap was entirely painted: The same thing can be seen on pictures of Shangri-La. The only photo I've seen clearly showing this part unpainted is a factory photo showing P-51Bs while they were being painted (masks all over) which could explain it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kostucha Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It's difficult to find the right shot. Many models of the Mustang III with the flaps down show that portion unpainted - but as we've all learned from the past, referencing another model is never good Scoobies. The reason I like that particular shot of Horbaczewski's Mustang III, is when looking up into the area close to the wing root, it is definitely contrasting with the paint on top of the wing (looking inboard of the inner most invasion white stripe), note the difference between the upper panel of the wing, and then the sharp contrast looking below the trailing edge of it, just above the painted portion of the flap, and then again between the painted portion of the flap (again, inboard of the inner most white invasion stripe) and that section of the flap. Huge difference.... that's the best one I've found to argue it was unpainted... Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks guys, i think that i will leave it upainted aluminium. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I just realized I misread the original post and thought we were talking about the tip of the flap that was covered by the fuselage to wing fillet when the flap's up. You guys were talking about the part that retracts under the wing's trailing edge which of course is always left unpainted. I'll read more carefully next time! Edited March 1, 2011 by tourist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjugs Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just like camouflaged P-47s, the inside edge of the flap [where it went under the wing] was painted the upper surface colors. The problem in all those pictures is that the flippen flap was covered in black and white stripes. Don't want no shiny parts compromising the camouflage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
painter Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 As far as I know the inside of flaps on all RAF aircraft were left unpainted/natural metal but I could be wrong. Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjugs Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 As far as I know the inside of flaps on all RAF aircraft were left unpainted/natural metal but I could be wrong.Brian Ah, yup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Now, i am confused..... John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anotherP51nut Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Can't be too dogmatic about it. I just took a quick look through the Polish Squadrons Remembered website and there are a number of photos showing both. There are many showing that narrow section of flap quite clearly painted the same as the camouflage colours. There are also a couple that show the strip bright and reflective, like bare metal. I'm at work so can't spend a lot of time linking, but if you go to the site and check out 306, 309, 315 and 316 Squadrons there are a fair number of Mustang III shots. Most do look painted. There is also a Polish website called Mysliwcy (fighters) that has a number of photos. Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Just like camouflaged P-47s, the inside edge of the flap [where it went under the wing] was painted the upper surface colors. The problem in all those pictures is that the flippen flap was covered in black and white stripes. Don't want no shiny parts compromising the camouflage Would you know what the complete serial number is for the 241 Squadron Mustang I, RZ-C? Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Ah, yup. Mustang "M" looks to be like a Mustang II. Would you happen to know what its serial number and squadron is. If it is in fact a Mustang II, the serial would be FD-xxx. I know that Mustang "E" is a Mk.I of 26 Sqd. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjugs Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Can't be too dogmatic about it. I just took a quick look through the Polish Squadrons Remembered website and there are a number of photos showing both. There are many showing that narrow section of flap quite clearly painted the same as the camouflage colours. There are also a couple that show the strip bright and reflective, like bare metal. I'm at work so can't spend a lot of time linking, but if you go to the site and check out 306, 309, 315 and 316 Squadrons there are a fair number of Mustang III shots. Most do look painted.There is also a Polish website called Mysliwcy (fighters) that has a number of photos. Richard Perhaps you could post those that indicate unpainted. I don't seem to see any. In te one below the brightness is because the flap is in full shadow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anotherP51nut Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Oops, just realized this is the same one that Mark referenced above, anyway... Here is one from 315 Squadron that I found in a quick search, will look for a couple others at home tonight. Have to say though that most of those I looked at did have that strip painted with the rest of the flap. I've learned something today I assumed to be otherwise. Cheers, Richard Edited March 3, 2011 by anotherP51nut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Col Ford Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Mustang 'M' is a Mustang Mk.II FR900 of No.35(Recce) Wing RAF in early 1945, being the 'personal' aircraft of the Wing OC G/C A F Anderson DSO and Bar DFC. The photos is copied from volume 3 of 2TAF by Shores & Thomas and is one of a number of photos I provided to the authors of that work. There is normally a convention that if you scan a photo from a publication to illustrate an answer to a query, to at least acknowledge the source. It then allows the questioner to know where to look for further information and also means you are less likely to get the publication copyright holders upset because you have not given proper attribution to the source as is required under the various 'proper use' clauses for copyright around the world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Mustang 'M' is a Mustang Mk.II FR900 of No.35(Recce) Wing RAF in early 1945, being the 'personal' aircraft of the Wing OC G/C A F Anderson DSO and Bar DFC. The photos is copied from volume 3 of 2TAF by Shores & Thomas and is one of a number of photos I provided to the authors of that work.There is normally a convention that if you scan a photo from a publication to illustrate an answer to a query, to at least acknowledge the source. It then allows the questioner to know where to look for further information and also means you are less likely to get the publication copyright holders upset because you have not given proper attribution to the source as is required under the various 'proper use' clauses for copyright around the world. Thanks Colin. Why am I not surprised that you would have the answer. Hey, do you happen to know what the s/n of that 241 Sqd Mustang I, RZ-C is? All I can make out is AG-51? I've tried manipulating the image but still can't make out what the final digit is hidden in the shadow. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Thanks a lot for your replies John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Thanks a lot for your replies John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Have to say though that most of those I looked at did have that strip painted with the rest of the flap. I've learned something today I assumed to be otherwise. Same thing here, I'm so used to the unpainted strip on USAAF P-51s that I assumed the same thing applied to RAF Mustangs. Colin, thanks for identifying the Mustang Mk.II, I hope your photo gets the proper credit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Col Ford Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks Colin. Why am I not surprised that you would have the answer. Hey, do you happen to know what the s/n of that 241 Sqd Mustang I, RZ-C is? All I can make out is AG-51? I've tried manipulating the image but still can't make out what the final digit is hidden in the shadow.Cheers, Tom Hi Tom, Hadn't forgotten your request on this one, just took me a while to remember where I had seen the possible answer. See here: http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/Must...ft-photos.shtml So it is still a little bit of a mystery, but the range of possibles has narrowed. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi Tom,Hadn't forgotten your request on this one, just took me a while to remember where I had seen the possible answer. See here: http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/Must...ft-photos.shtml So it is still a little bit of a mystery, but the range of possibles has narrowed. Regards, Colin, Thank you for the link. It has at least helped me solve another mystery, and it concerns the picture of 26 Sqd Mustang I, RM-T. I have a full shot of that aircraft from the right hand side. The markings on the ground prove that it was taken in the same location as the one in the link you provided. No matter what I did with the picture I had I couldn't make out the last digit of AG-36?. Because the angle and lighting is different in this other picture I can manipulate the image and see that the full serial is AG-365. Another one down. The comments below the picture of RZ-C with respect to the possibility of the last digit being painted out (You heard of that?) sort of makes sense. You'd think that no matter what that last digit was you would at the very least see the top portion of it just outside the shadow. Yet there is nothing at all. I am basing this on the spacing of the digits in the many (you probably have tons) pictures I have. Thank you for your help, again. Cheers, Tom P.S. Remember you sorted out the code of that 2 Sqd Mustang I, AG-611 for me? Well, I had Mal Mayfield of Miracle Masks make me the codes XV-Z (in case I go with full codes) and all the insignia for it. When I sort out how to best tackle making that outboard gun camera perspex on the left wing, I'll be able to make the aircraft that crashed behind my mums house in Hellingly, East Sussex, U.K. on Nov 11, 1943. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Col Ford Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Colin, Thank you for the link. It has at least helped me solve another mystery, and it concerns the picture of 26 Sqd Mustang I, RM-T. I have a full shot of that aircraft from the right hand side. The markings on the ground prove that it was taken in the same location as the one in the link you provided. No matter what I did with the picture I had I couldn't make out the last digit of AG-36?. Because the angle and lighting is different in this other picture I can manipulate the image and see that the full serial is AG-365. Another one down. The comments below the picture of RZ-C with respect to the possibility of the last digit being painted out (You heard of that?) sort of makes sense. You'd think that no matter what that last digit was you would at the very least see the top portion of it just outside the shadow. Yet there is nothing at all. I am basing this on the spacing of the digits in the many (you probably have tons) pictures I have. Thank you for your help, again. Cheers, Tom P.S. Remember you sorted out the code of that 2 Sqd Mustang I, AG-611 for me? Well, I had Mal Mayfield of Miracle Masks make me the codes XV-Z (in case I go with full codes) and all the insignia for it. When I sort out how to best tackle making that outboard gun camera perspex on the left wing, I'll be able to make the aircraft that crashed behind my mums house in Hellingly, East Sussex, U.K. on Nov 11, 1943. Tom, Glad I could help. Re the outboard gun camera on the port wing (okay, I'm a pilot!!) I recently finished a Mustang Mk.I of the initial AG serial batch using the AM P-51 kit and Ultracast Mk.I conversion, plus some other bits. To do the gun camera I cut and filed to shape the 'slot', then filled it in stages using Humbrol Clear Fix applied with a pointy tooth pick. When I had the 'slot' filled, I then polished using one of those magic nail polisher sticks to ensure a smooth and even surface. Then masked using Tamiya masking tape, paint applied, etc, etc. Worked out quite well. Regards, Edited March 16, 2011 by Col Ford Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Tom,Glad I could help. Re the outboard gun camera on the port wing (okay, I'm a pilot!!) I recently finished a Mustang Mk.I of the initial AG serial batch using the AM P-51 kit and Ultracast Mk.I conversion, plus some other bits. To do the gun camera I cut and filed to shape the 'slot', then filled it in stages using Humbrol Clear Fix applied with a pointy tooth pick. When I had the 'slot' filled, I then polished using one of those magic nail polisher sticks to ensure a smooth and even surface. Then masked using Tamiya masking tape, paint applied, etc, etc. Worked out quite well. Regards, Colin, I'd love to see a picture of your kit. You could PM me or if you still have my email addy........ Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruud Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 the painted/unpainted portion of the flap, would that be linked to when they started delivering Mustangs in NMF? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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