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Massive 9.0 quake in Japan


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Lord please watch over all those people and protect them all.

He didn't.

I was in Tokyo a couple of years ago. The Japanese are used to disasters. But this is something else. My best wishes to them but that won't help them right now. Hopefully the government can start releasing more information so other parties can understand what they need to do to help out.

Edited by PetarB
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Northern Japan has been hit by an 8.8 quake. 8.8 is about as big as they get.

10 meter (30') tsunami is expected.

I hope the people in that area are ok.

Kinda been avoiding this thread as I'm still in shock! But after viewing the before and after photos I'm sick. I only wish there was a way I could simply bring some of those folks over to my place to at least be warm and dry. I knew it was bad when they said "8.9" in a densely populated country, but it's much worse than I ever expected.

gary

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Japanese Police now reporting that there may be in excess of 10,000 casualties in Miyagi Prefecture alone.

Vince

These are the type of numbers I initially feared. :thumbsup:

Regarding the nuclear reactor that is failing......I wonder why this was built on the coast and not inland on higher ground?

Although this may sound too cut and dry......I have never been in favour of building nuclear reactors in active earthquake zones. Most earthquake zones have mountains making hydro electric power generation possible, but Japan seems to have a very unique set of circumstances that few countries if any have to cope with regarding power generation.

I do understand Japan has a limited supply of power generating resources.......but can't they tap into the geo-thermal potential of the fact their islands are dormant volcanos........or is this source of energy too limited to produce the power needed?

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Regarding the nuclear reactor that is failing......I wonder why this was built on the coast and not inland on higher ground?

Although this may sound too cut and dry......I have never been in favour of building nuclear reactors in active earthquake zones. Most earthquake zones have mountains making hydro electric power generation possible, but Japan seems to have a very unique set of circumstances that few countries if any have to cope with regarding power generation.

I do understand Japan has a limited supply of power generating resources.......but can't they tap into the geo-thermal potential of the fact their islands are dormant volcanos........or is this source of energy too limited to produce the power needed?

Reactors are built on the coast for one main reason - water.

They are currently pumping seawater into them to cool them as its an emergency. Long term I suspect this is not good due to the corrosive effect, but its an emergency response. Not on the coast and you cant do this.

As to building reactors in an earthquake zone? Well the Japanese as you have said face particular problems with no natural resoucres (gas, oil etc). As to geothermal, I dont know.

Its is worth saying that the earthquake itself did not damge the reactor, apparently the control rods dropped as they were supposed to, the build up of heat is residual from the reactor working, you just cant turn them off and they go cold, there is a lot of heat there. There are diesel generators to provide the cooling but these have been damaged by the wave that hit them.

The building that blew up on the news was not the reactor containment building but another one. If you noticed it blew mainly upwards as it was designed to do to protect the other buildings around it.

I really feel for the japanese people on this one. No one knows how high the death toll will be, I see whole towns/cities which have just gone. In an amazing story they have found one 60 year old guy on a roof 9 miles off shore! The problems now are going to be finding more survivors and unfortunatly clearing up the dead before disease sets in. Water is off in a lot of places and due to the nuclear plants being shut down the country is having rolling blackouts.

My thought go out to those involved. Japan might be one of the richest nations in the world but they I fear will need a lot of help with this one.

Julien

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I've heard that pumping sea water into the damaged plant will make if un-usable in the future....which is why they have resisted this option until now.

I just checked...Japan has 55 active nuclear reactors in 17 different sites....most if not all appear to be along the coast. http://www.japannuclear.com/nuclearpower/p...m/location.html

One interesting note is the bulk of the earthquakes that are shown on google earth are along the east coast of Japan........the west coast shows almost very few in comparison..........which would make me think Tsunamis don't happen much along the west coast....which would seem to be a safer location for these plants.

But I have a feeling greater minds than mine in the Japan nuclear industry have already thought of this and they will be pondering this when choosing future locations.

This news from Japan just keeps getting worse and breaks my heart for what these people are going through.

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Well Ladies and Gentlemen here is where we can help, if you only give a small amount say $5 to the Red Cross then it will be a step forward in aiding those who have suffered so much in Japan. I know most of us are spending a lot more than that on kits these days so why not pass on that new kit, for now, you've got a stash, eh, and send some of the cost to the Red Cross. Push your Gov'ts to aid or at least match what the people donate! I sincerely hope Canada has cranked up our Military Disaster Assistance team to head over and at least set up the water purifying system!! So step up to the plate, I plan to send some $$ to the Red Cross to aid in Japan.

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I've heard that pumping sea water into the damaged plant will make if un-usable in the future....which is why they have resisted this option until now.

I just checked...Japan has 55 active nuclear reactors in 17 different sites....most if not all appear to be along the coast. http://www.japannuclear.com/nuclearpower/p...m/location.html

One interesting note is the bulk of the earthquakes that are shown on google earth are along the east coast of Japan........the west coast shows almost very few in comparison..........which would make me think Tsunamis don't happen much along the west coast....which would seem to be a safer location for these plants.

But I have a feeling greater minds than mine in the Japan nuclear industry have already thought of this and they will be pondering this when choosing future locations.

This news from Japan just keeps getting worse and breaks my heart for what these people are going through.

i would be afraid that building on the west coast would be bad if there ever was an earthquake happened there, i'd think think that the relatively narrow body of water in the sea of japan would make for a worse tsunami...but thats just a guess

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i would be afraid that building on the west coast would be bad if there ever was an earthquake happened there, i'd think think that the relatively narrow body of water in the sea of japan would make for a worse tsunami...but thats just a guess

A very interesting and valid point.

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Plus, you need to consider the prevailing winds in Japan. A west coast reactor would blow contamination over the countryside, rather than out to sea. I have many friends who work in and around the nuclear industry (my city supports one of the first nuclear plants in the world), including those who have worked on assisting the clean-up at Chernobyl. I was informed by a friend that virtually every nuclear power plant in the world is located on a fault line. Why? Major rivers necessary for coolant water run along fault lines. Fukushima is worrisome, but not necessarily to the point of panic yet (which is when containment is breached). The situation is still not as bad as Three Mile Island. I've always been curious why "pebble reactors" have not become more popular, as they are smaller, more compact, and I've been led to believe they are much "safer" in terms of potential meltdown (though also less efficient and provide less power).

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. I've always been curious why "pebble reactors" have not become more popular, as they are smaller, more compact, and I've been led to believe they are much "safer" in terms of potential meltdown (though also less efficient and provide less power).

Because the anti-nuclear nutbars would be just as rabid against smaller nuclear power generation sites as they are large ones. This then drives up the costs of such through litigation, bureaucracy and design as well as no matter if it's a small "pebble" reactor as you say or a large one the general population who are often ill-informed and full of nonsensical paranoia just get as worked up over either.

Most regular Joe and Mary Sixpack think power is the stuff that magically comes out of a wall outlet in their home, that's all they care to think of it.

My question to any of those anti-nuclear power generation sites, where do you want to get the electricity from to replace the worlds wide use and proven to be very safe nuclear power generation we have had now for over a 1/2 century?

Answer me that please?

OBTW don't say solar or wind ok as neither are capable to replace all the global power made via nuclear today let alone in our ever more power hungry future.

Edited by Les / Creative Edge Photo
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O.K., since we'll probably see again the F-2B that was tossed around by the tsunami, and people will again probably be in a mood to fight over it's appropriateness, let me offer this humble thought:

I remember when, in previous hurricanes that hit the United States, I learned that U.S. military units typically moved their expensive airplanes to other bases out of the way of the approaching storm. In this case, the pictures of the wrecked JASDF fighters do tell a story, and not one of simple callousness on the part of those who posted them in this or another forum. When first I saw them I thought, "gosh, I'm surprised the JASDF didn't get them out of the way in time--oh, right, the JASDF had no warning." Those living around those fighter units had no warning. That's the horrific tale I see in those photos.

This bigger point: the whole collection of arbitrary stuff we think is important in our daily lives. Those people were about their daily lives, immersed in their mental world of "what is," just minutes before the ground shook. Within several hours, it was all washed away, replaced by another, profoundly different (and terrible) existence. There's nothing at all stopping the same thing happening, arbitrarily, next Tuesday, somewhere else. And yet, we have the temerity to argue--kill each other, even--over things in our national and international politics as if they matter by comparison.

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I'm not sure those jets were caught on the ground due to lack of warning. There was some warning but it wasn't much. But ponder this......it appears no airliners were caught on the ground at the Shendai airport......this could have been luck or maybe the warning was enough to get the jets in the air. My rough guess is the warning was much less than 30 minutes.......I'm guessing it was 5 to 15 minutes.

I suspect those Japanese fighter jets that were caught on the ground....could have been lame ducks unable to fly due to repairs that were underway.

BTW....regarding the Tsunami threat.......perhaps these small communities should build Tsunami proof mounds with staircases in the towns near the coast. The peole can climb the stairs to the top of the mound to get away from the tsunami. For most of these people the warning was too short to get to natural high ground.......but stregically placed man made mounds would provide them with the much needed high ground they need........sort of like a tornado shelter in Tornado alley. It was obvious in the videos that he people that reached high ground survived just fine.

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I'm not sure thiose jets were caught on the ground due to lack of warning. There was some warning but it wasn't much. But ponder this......it appears no airliners were caught on the ground at the Shendai airport......this could have been luck or maybe the warning was enough to get the jets in the air. My rough guess is the warning was much less than 30 minutes.......I'm guessing it was 5 to 15 minutes.

I suspect those Japanese fighter jets that were caught on the ground....could have been lame ducks unable to fly due to repairs that were underway.

I'll readily admit; it's speculation on my part.

But a further pontification: interesting how nature is no respecter of things: large and small, expensive and cheap, old and new, fighter planes, microwave ovens, wristwatches, and garbage cans, lipstick cylinders, bits of paper, wood, wreckage of all kinds. The status we accord to material goods--the way we sort them--is irrelevant when the tsunami comes. To my mind, even a thought as incomplete as that is still a real, albeit bitter lesson.

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It would be far easier to get six or eight airliners parked at Sendai's terminal (which isn't very big - been there) off the ground in a matter of minutes than to get every single airplane on the ramp at a military base off the ground. The airliners parked at the gates at Sendai had crews ready to go. The military a/c didn't, and hadn't been readied for flight. Unless they were cocked on alert, it would have taken far more time to ready them for flight and to round up enough crews to fly them than the available warning.

J

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My wife posted a video on her facebook of the water rushing in. You can follow the water with the timer on your video viewer. Within 6 minutes, the person filming went from the bare asphalt to water rushing past the earth embankment almost three stores up.

I asked my wife where she picked up the video, sent from a friend of a friend, so unfortunately I cannot link to it. I can send it to you Steve if you know of a way to host it

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Well Ladies and Gentlemen here is where we can help, if you only give a small amount say $5 to the Red Cross then it will be a step forward in aiding those who have suffered so much in Japan. I know most of us are spending a lot more than that on kits these days so why not pass on that new kit, for now, you've got a stash, eh, and send some of the cost to the Red Cross. Push your Gov'ts to aid or at least match what the people donate! I sincerely hope Canada has cranked up our Military Disaster Assistance team to head over and at least set up the water purifying system!! So step up to the plate, I plan to send some $$ to the Red Cross to aid in Japan.

Very good advice. And every little bit will help.

Come on guys, ARC members have shown how generous we can be in the past. No reason to stop now

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What is wrong with posting the images of the destruction caused by this calamity ?

I understand when human remains are involved but when it is just images of the damage, how is that wrong ?

It allows everyone that wasn't there to see how significant it truly was ...

Gregg

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What is wrong with posting the images of the destruction caused by this calamity ?

I understand when human remains are involved but when it is just images of the damage, how is that wrong ?

It allows everyone that wasn't there to see how significant it truly was ...

I think the concern was the thought that people were callously lamenting over ruined fighter planes when the real tragedy is, of course, the human loss. Honestly, I don't think that's what's going on; no one is seriously crying over spilled jets. But on the other hand, people might be a bit more irritable and combative than usual.

Either way, folks, spend your efforts in support of the Japanese people in better places than internet arguments.

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