Jump to content
ARC Discussion Forums
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
Sign in to follow this  
Kostucha

Sabre Mk. 5

Recommended Posts

Hello folks,

Although the two smaller 1/72 builds are almost done, I'm almost done a quick run on the 1/32 Kinetic F-86F-30 Sabre. I've used the cockpit detail set, and the rest of the build is OOB. It's a superb kit, and really made life easy building it up this weekend, and my hope is to have this one wrapped up quickly for ValourCon with IPMS Winnipeg next weekend.

The plan is to build a Sabre Mk.5, flying with 434 Sqn in Germany in 1957, with tail number 23335, thus no need to make the leading edge slats or sugar scoops underneath. That, and the 1/32 Decal set from LEM for the '57 Gunnery Competition will help give me the markings needed. Yet again, I'm very happy with Hobby Decal dry transfer stencils.

Right now she's sitting upside down as the MLG is drying and the drop tanks are slung. Pictures to follow soon!

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:woo: hoo Mark,

Cannot wait for the piccies...Sounds like this is going to be a good build...

Please post soon..

HOLMES

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm at the point right now where all the dry transfer stencils are on with the camo pattern painted, but when I tried to airbrush the future finish about 30 minutes ago, I botched it hard. So, I either strip it all down and start again, or try and strip just the future off... and I was on SUCH A ROLE!!! All this for the stinkin' decals. I'm almost ready to sell, give away, or toss out anything that I can't paint markings onto...

For some reason, the future caused the dry transfers to blister up. This is now where the exercise in patience really comes into play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, something managed to be saved. Right now she's going to be drying/hardening until either tomorrow or Tuesday night... but there's still much to be done... anywho, before I get into that, here are the pictures:

Here she is overall:

DSC06397.jpg

Here are the 'go around' shots of the cockpit (with MB Mk.5 Seat, and control column still needing to be installed):

DSC06407.jpg

DSC06404.jpg

DSC06403.jpg

DSC06410.jpg

A shot of the landing gear (minus forward most gear door), and the drop tanks slung under (minus the support arm):

DSC06416.jpg

And the work done on the vents (in 1/32 I didn't like the look of the decal option):

DSC06420.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the short comings...

I'm really happy with how the canopy turned out:

DSC06421.jpg

But it looks like the molded in bracket to mount the open canopy has it opened up too far back:

DSC06423.jpg

Any thoughts? I've looked through many, many pictures, but have yet to see the canopy open up this far back.

And then there's the tail, where the decal printed didn't fit over the vertical stab and rudder, and so I opted to go with the 'Bluenose' going on just the vertical stab:

DSC06411.jpg

I plan to repaint the rudder back and have it looking much like '510 is pictured here:

23510_CL-13B_Abbots_1280.jpg

Once this is all done, then it's a few minor things, such as the fuel dump, the two brackets on the drop tanks going to the wings, the wing fences, the canopy, engine intake and exhaust covers, wing tip lights, landing lights, tail lights, and add the weight to the wheels, then it's the control stick and the ejection seat... ...and a few coats of dull coat as well...

Thoughts, input, advice, all welcome.

Cheers,

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that once this one is done (by the end of the week), that I'll quickly finish up those two 1/72 Biplanes, and try to simplify and quickly finish off the 1/24 Hurricane. I keep looking at it, and there's no way to get one that size to sit the way I want, so I'm thinking that it'll be a simple matter of a closed up Hurricane with a pilot sitting in the cockpit of a 1 RCAF Squadron Hurricane... I want to clean up the work bench (if you know what I mean)

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, something managed to be saved. Right now she's going to be drying/hardening until either tomorrow or Tuesday night... but there's still much to be done... anywho, before I get into that, here are the pictures:

Here are the 'go around' shots of the cockpit (with MB Mk.5 Seat, and control column still needing to be installed):

Lookin' good, but I have to ask:

What's with the MB Mk5 seat ????? Canada used the original North American designed seat.

The Germans put the Martin Baker seat in some(not all) of their Sabres.

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you!

With regards to the seat, in it being a MB 5, or my calling it that... my mistake. Indeed it is the right seat that will be used with the Sabre, but my use of the MB 5 name was a mistake. Thanks for the pointer.

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there... that looks really good.

I just finished one of those myself a little while ago..

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=229105&st=0&p=2185267

What did you use for your PRU Blue?

Just an FYI for future builds, the Roundel on the side should be on the forward end of the air-brake on both sides of the fuselage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there... that looks really good.

Just an FYI for future builds, the Roundel on the side should be on the forward end of the air-brake on both sides of the fuselage.

Not always, page 167 of Larry Milberrys 'the Canadair Sabre' shows some 439 Sabre 5s with the roundel well forward of the speedbrake. In fact the squadron codes and numbers are forward of the speedbrake too. Page 130 shows a 416 Sabre 5 of Carte Blanche with the roundel well forward too.

Always pays to have a photo available of what one is modelling---what with all these exceptions to the rule.

colour note: Sabre 5 cockpits/seats were Dark Gull Grey with a black instrument panel. (black panels on side consoles)

Model On !!!

Tony

Edited by Snowbird3a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys,

The difficulty in finding pictures of any Mk.5 Sabre with the slats not put on yet, and lacking in sugar scoops, is that it seems that during that period of time (1957ish) that there were no pictures of them. Sure, there are a lot of pictures of Sabre Mk.5's (23000-23370?) with the slats and sugar scoops on, but I had a hard wing, and wanted to use it as such, with the squadron letter codes, rather than the RCAF.

In the pictures that I did find with Squadron codes, I did find many that had the centered markings on the fuselage (that being, in this case "BR * 335" symetrically placed as a whole, not just the roundel), so I opted to go with that, rather than the centered roundel. I did find though, that there wasn't a single example of a Sword with "RCAF" (rather than the 2 letter squadron codes) that showed unsymetrical roundels... my thoughts being that the "RCAF" being forward on both sides, then the roundel, then the numbers goes a long way to explaining why...

As for the cockpit colours, boy was this a fight... in pouring over photos, I found that all Mk.6's were grey cockpits. Finding some early Mk.5's with a black cockpit, and later ones with a grey cockpit... I couldn't decide on which colour to use. My reasoning for going with the all black... I found many places and pictures that show that part way through the 5's production run they went from black to grey. When exactly, or even if this was correct, is one of the hardest answers to find in a long time, so for the benefit of having the detail pop out, I opted to go with the black... although, later finding a picture of 314 with a grey cockpit leaves me thinging it might not be to late to change it all over to grey.

Frankly though, at this point, and how little time I have, I may have to opt to have the cockpit stay black, and any and all future Sabres I make will either be a Mk.4 or earlier, or a late (post 1959) Mk.5 and later... ohhhhh... 1957, what a confusing year...

However, I must say, short of the issue with the finish of the paint scheme and frustrations I imposed on myself, this kit (the 1/32 Kinetic kit), is a real joy to work with. One things for sure though, she is one impressive aircraft.

Thanks again for the input guys! Greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys,

The difficulty in finding pictures of any Mk.5 Sabre with the slats not put on yet, and lacking in sugar scoops, is that it seems that during that period of time (1957ish) that there were no pictures of them. Sure, there are a lot of pictures of Sabre Mk.5's (23000-23370?) with the slats and sugar scoops on, but I had a hard wing, and wanted to use it as such, with the squadron letter codes, rather than the RCAF.

In the pictures that I did find with Squadron codes, I did find many that had the centered markings on the fuselage (that being, in this case "BR * 335" symetrically placed as a whole, not just the roundel), so I opted to go with that, rather than the centered roundel. I did find though, that there wasn't a single example of a Sword with "RCAF" (rather than the 2 letter squadron codes) that showed unsymetrical roundels... my thoughts being that the "RCAF" being forward on both sides, then the roundel, then the numbers goes a long way to explaining why...

No Mk5 ever had slats installled,(Hawk One is a Mk5 with a -40 wing), in fact the first batch of Mk6s came from the factory with a hard edge wing (ala Mk5).

By the time the 'RCAF' came about on the fuselage, the Mk5s were long gone and markings seemed to be pretty much standardized.

Sugar scoops were a late '58 addition, again, long after the Mk5s had gone.

Cheers, Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is an example of where I just throw my arms up and say "Forget it!" (Nothing against you Tony! I really appreciate your insight, and knowledge, and willingness to share the facts. I just wish I had the foresight to talk to you guys first about this project, rather than try to run in quickly to get something done short of ValourCon). Some sources say one thing, others say another thing... some show the early Mk.6's with the hard wing later retrofitted with the slats... What I know, 335 did fly with 434 Sqn, was there in '57, had the hard wing, no sugar scoops, no "RCAF" but the BR Code, and unfortunately, no picture of the period of 335.

Next Canadian Jet... the Voodoo... once I have MANY pictures of and will leave no doubt as to what is what...

Thanks!

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some sources say one thing, others say another thing... ... What I know, 335 did fly with 434 Sqn, was there in '57, had the hard wing, no sugar scoops, no "RCAF" but the BR Code, and unfortunately, no picture of the period of 335.

Thanks!

Mark.

thats why I trust photos, they rarely tell two conflicting stories in one image.

Mark, you did a great job with 23335 and good luck with it in Winnipeg.

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much guys!

In looking at the 'office' one more time, there's no way I'll manage to paint it properly at this point (black to grey). I can't get inside the canopy frame (painted black on the inside)... so it'll have to stay black. Again though, a learning point for sure.

Some of the minor details left to do:

-Fix up the wing tips

-Lights (Landing, Wing Tip, Tail)

-Ejection Seat & Control Stick

-Front Nose Wheel Door

-Weight on wheels (heating up the bottom of the wheels and giving a 'heavy' look to them)

-Pitot tube

-a couple of other small parts, and

-Possible the worst/most difficult thing... smooth the finish, spray some acrylic dullcoat on, and weather the Sword...

Thanks again for all the help! More pictures to follow shortly (I hope).

Cheers,

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just an FYI for future builds, the Roundel on the side should be on the forward end of the air-brake on both sides of the fuselage.

Not for Euro camo Sabre 5s. Similar to Sabre 2 ID codes, the Sabre 5 was marked with the fuselage codes/roundels/numbers well forward of the speed brake.

see; http://aerobaticteams.net/rcaf-sky-lancers.html

This changed to the roundel on the fwd edge of the speedbrake with the intro of the Mk6(56-57).

This info from the Patrick Martin book on RCAF aircraft markings 1947-1968

Cheers, Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking great Mark. I have a 430 Sqn bird planned for my Kinetic kit.

One thing to note (and it's a nit-pick)....the top side of the underwing tanks would actually be the same grey as the camo, rather than the PRU blue. Hard to see in pics, but it's mentioned in the same Patrick Martin book Tony refers to.

I actually went through the same research this past weekend for my '56 Skylancers build, so the info is top of mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark...While Smithery is generally right as to drop tanks (two colour Grey/PRU Blue) and especially as to the Skylancers (The Leading Edge sheet points this out in the painting instructions [and pictures back it up]), there are certainly colour pictures in Milberry;'s Sabre book that clearly show solid PRU Blue tanks on some Canadian Sabres (probably more on the later Mark 6s) so your Sabre just got a batch of the all blue ones eh :P .....While there may be some mistakes, most people wouldn't know and your Sabre still looks great so we;'ll just cross our fingers that the Winnipeg judges don't see this thread :thumbsup:

Cheers

Bruce

Edited by RCAFFAN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The drop tanks were a thing of interest as well. I was initially going to go with the two-tone drop tanks... then going through colour pictures, I found:

-The gray top/PRU blue bottom

-All PRU Blue

-PRU Blue top/Gray bottom (not kidding, I took a double, andd triple take... but sure enough)

-Unpainted

-Unpainted with a reddish/brown 'paint' (sealer?) over the joints of the tank.

Reason I went with the overall PRU blue, in all honesty, is because it was simpler.

Thanks again!

Mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not for Euro camo Sabre 5s. Similar to Sabre 2 ID codes, the Sabre 5 was marked with the fuselage codes/roundels/numbers well forward of the speed brake.

see; http://aerobaticteams.net/rcaf-sky-lancers.html

This changed to the roundel on the fwd edge of the speedbrake with the intro of the Mk6(56-57).

This info from the Patrick Martin book on RCAF aircraft markings 1947-1968

Cheers, Tony

I have the same book (both volumn 1 and 2). There are no drawings of the MK5 with the Roundel behind the airbrake. Page 230.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the same book (both volumn 1 and 2). There are no drawings of the MK5 with the Roundel behind the airbrake. Page 230.

Or on the speedbrake. I had to read your post a couple of times, you're quoting me but talking about Mark's model, no.

On post #9 you mentioned that the roundel should be on the fwd edge of the speedbrake.

Tony

Edited by Snowbird3a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark

Steller job!

The inst pnl is a thing of beauty and the exterior future problum is not noticable, looks great to me.

Well done!

HOWEVER

one of the cockpit photos did cause a question

DSC064102.jpg

roflmao.gif

no great modler models alone, his fans will always be there to support him.....sorta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

I really like the canopy..WOW !!!

OUTSTANDING work... :jaw-dropping::jaw-dropping:

Edited by HOLMES

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark:

Regardless of errors, omissions, deletions, additions or corrections, I think she looks fantastic. Very impressive looking. You did this kit a lot of justice. Well done!

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...