Jennings Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 All good points. We need to become more sensitive. Those animals who cut off the heads of infidels and have the blood of thousands of innocents on their hands just need a hug and long, heartfelt discussion so they can resolve all of those nasty, angry feelings. After all, they are the victims and we are bad guys. Once that happens, most will just give up and submit to a trial here in the US, while the rest will probably just go back to whatever it was they did before jihad became all the rage. Gosh darn it, I also feel bad that "the world" doesn't like us. After all, the most important thing out there is to be liked. I'm really, really troubled that the whole, entire world thinks we are big bullies. I also hope those nasty SEALS (aka "death squads" as one other poster so eloquently put it) will be disciplined for the awful crimes they committed yesterday. Depriving OBL of his rights, failing to knock before entering his compound, etc.. What awful people. Sheeesh.... So anything they do, we can do, right? That makes us better than them how? Sadly, you (not just you, by any means) just don't "get it", and clearly you never will. I won't beat my head against the wall anymore on this. Except to say that those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it. Oh, and I hope and pray you're never on a jury in the US. Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) You can't possibly be serious!?!? Can you please tell me precisely where in the US Constitution or in any law in any jurisdiction anywhere in the US that it says you have to give yourself up in order to have a right to a fair trial? I must have missed that lecture in civics class. And we wonder why the world thinks we're a bunch of self-righteous, holier-than-thou bullies?? With attitudes like that, I don't wonder at all. Sheesh... Thats ok I missed the part where a guy who never set foot in the US, living in Pakistan is constitutionally protected. How is the US constitution valid in Pakistan? kind of self-righteous there, assuming the American way is the only way. I am saying that if he wanted a trial he could have surrendered in a nation friendly to him or at least a neutral nation and received a trial. At no point did i mean that self surrender was the only key to a trail. And you are smart enough to know what I meant Jennings. BTW Even my little podunk state has safe surrender programs for the lowest level crooks. If OBL could rangle a house in Pakistan surely he could have surrendered and had a trail in a neutral, UN approved nation. Why wait until the men with guns show up and leave it all to chance? He had 13 years to give himself up and he never did. If he pulled a weapon he puts himself in instant mortal danger as well. What happened if he had put his hands up? He gets captured and tried. Edited May 2, 2011 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
Maker Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I won't beat my head against the wall anymore. No, please do! Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Trail does not have to be in the US under US rules either... Edited May 2, 2011 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
DPD1 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Right. So we're "at war" against maybe 2500-5000 people at most (according to a CIA estimate). In prosecuting that war, we've killed upwards (by DoD estimate) of 100,000+ Iraqis, 20-30,000 Afghans, etc, etc, etc. Somehow, to me, that math doesn't really work out very well. And let's not even get into the TRILLIONS of dollars (we don't have) we've spent doing it. Oh, and the GIGANTIC number of young American lives we've lost and/or permanently screwed up. I don't know where you're getting these numbers. We have killed many people who are INSURGENTS in Iraq. People who for various reasons, are trying to create chaos there, to prevent peace. Half of them aren't even from Iraq. To say we killed "Iraqis" implies that we are just indiscriminately fighting/killing the people of Iraq, which is not the case at all. The same goes for Afghanistan. The situation is not nearly as black and white as just throwing out a number of people and saying we killed them. That's very simplistic. If you talk to average Iraqi and Afgan people... the majority of them know why we're there, and actually think it's a good thing. They may wish it wasn't necessary, but they understand. Obviously if we were just indiscriminately killing innocent people all over the place, they wouldn't feel that way. These are all separate issues... Not one big issue. Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Let me paraphrase The Joker ... "He was a Vicious Bastard and I'm Glad he's Dead ..." Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
arkhunter2002 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Until we get some real pix and AAR info, take another look at Austin Kennedy's MH-60 Fast Rope dio. I'm guessing it looked a lot like this. Very cool that one happens to be posted today. Thanks! It's purely coincidence. I submitted the article 3 weeks ago on the dot from today. I just hope Mike Durant writes a book. Hopefully he still has good connections to get plenty of details. I was thinking Mark Bowden. Either way, it would be a very interesting read... Take care, Austin (sporting my crossfit "infidel" shirt today) Link to post Share on other sites
big fatty Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) EDIT - Retracted as being potentially inflammatory, not my intention I assure you all, I am just a little retiscent to join in with the "hoorah we killed the sucker" high-fiving, I don't think this is going to play out at all well. Your right, we should go hide under the bed! GO SEAL TEAM SIX! Soooo, looks like that water boarding worked, hmmmmm. Edited May 2, 2011 by big fatty Link to post Share on other sites
Old Blind Dog Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 So, Bin Laden is dead? Good. May his name and memory be erased. Old Blind Dog Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I'm all for fair trials, but if there is, sorry, was one person alive today who had it coming (and who bloody well knew he had it coming), it was Osama. If you want to apply a law-enforcement-style "case and trial"- scenario (I don't know whether that would even be applicable), for all I remember Osama claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. Multiple times, with fervour. If that isn't pleading "guilty" I don't know what is. Even if his killing was indeed unlawful (not saying it was), the round to his head saved lives. Countless lives. Had they taken him alive, there would've been waves of terrorist attacks to attain his release. And how were we offensive again? What did we do wrong with OBL? Ah, the thousands of "infidels" based on holy soil during Desert Storm. Or something like that. Pffft! What people need to realize is that there really is no need to worry about ways of antagonizing people like Osama and his henchmen. Our very existence is offensive to them. Our way of living, our concept of human rights, our liberal, democratic society. There is nothing we could do to appease them, short of collective, society-wide suicide. Edited May 2, 2011 by ChernayaAkula Link to post Share on other sites
madmanrick Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 While I realize my opinion will fly in the face of all the euphoria over this man's death, I feel I must weigh in. I do not rejoice in any man's death, no matter how hated or bitter an enemy. Although I would never claim to be a Biblical scholar, the Bible also has some very apropos passages on this very subject: "Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles" Proverbs 24-17 I do not feel an ounce of joy that this man has paid the ultimate price for his sins. I only feel sadness in the fact that 3,000 innocent souls died and nothing will ever erase that pain for their loved ones. I regret that there is no doubt that others will fall, in this never ending cycle of hatred. Another quote strikes me very deeply at this particular moment: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." by Mahatma Gandhi. I am glad that the individuals involved in this mission returned safely and my thoughts remain with the families of those lost almost 10 years ago. Many of my co-workers worked in Seven World Trade and luckily all survived the attack and evacuations. Most were a somber bunch today, I suspect that they didn't really want to relive that day for any reason. Rick Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I'm all for fair trials, but if there is, sorry, was one person alive today who had it coming (and who bloody well knew he had it coming), it was Osama. If you want to apply a law-enforcement-style "case and trial"- scenario (I don't know whether that would even be applicable), for all I remember Osama claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. Multiple times, with fervour. If that isn't pleading "guilty" I don't know what is. Even if his killing was indeed unlawful (not saying it was), the round to his head saved lives. Countless lives. Had they taken him alive, there would've been waves of terrorist attacks to attain his release. Ah, the thousands of "infidels" based on holy soil during Desert Storm. Or something like that. Pffft! What people need to realize is that there really is no need to worry about ways of antagonizing people like Osama and his henchmen. Our very existence is offensive to them. Our way of living, our concept of human rights, our liberal, democratic society. There is nothing we could do to appease them, short of collective, society-wide suicide. Thanks Moritz! Well said! Good riddance to the World Hide and seek champion 1998-2011 Edited May 2, 2011 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Ah, the thousands of "infidels" based on holy soil during Desert Storm. Or something like that. Pffft! What people need to realize is that there really is no need to worry about ways of antagonizing people like Osama and his henchmen. Our very existence is offensive to them. Our way of living, our concept of human rights, our liberal, democratic society. There is nothing we could do to appease them, short of collective, society-wide suicide. That's just the propaganda that Al-Qu'aida use to recruit individuals, which gets repeated in the mainstream media. It suits all sides, so it doesn't get rebuked by the government. The reality of the rise of Islamic Fundamentalism is quite different and far more complex than 'They Hate Our Freedoms!!!'. Vince Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Countless lives. Had they taken him alive, there would've been waves of terrorist attacks to attain his release. Who is to say that there won't be 'waves of terrorist attacks' to avenge his death? Vince Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 That's just the propaganda that Al-Qu'aida use to recruit individuals, which gets repeated in the mainstream media. It suits all sides, so it doesn't get rebuked by the government. The reality of the rise of Islamic Fundamentalism is quite different and far more complex than 'They Hate Our Freedoms!!!'. Vince That's just it, they hate our very existence ... They are like the Borg in Star Trek, they want to assimilate everyone to their beliefs and laws ... When they emigrate to another country, they do not wish to live under the established laws, they want to establish their own and have all the citizens of that country live their way ... If you do not believe the way they do, think the way they do, live the way they do, you are an infidel and should die ... -Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
-Neu- Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 That's just it, they hate our very existence ... They are like the Borg in Star Trek, they want to assimilate everyone to their beliefs and laws ... When they emigrate to another country, they do not wish to live under the established laws, they want to establish their own and have all the citizens of that country live their way ... If you do not believe the way they do, think the way they do, live the way they do, you are an infidel and should die ... -Gregg Its not simple as that at all; their views encompass a range of grievances toward the West and the unrepresentative governments in their own states. I'm really not here to inflame this discussion, but what you're posting is a cardboard cutout which doesn't really help to understand and ultimately defeat the movement. Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Turns out the guy was a selfish coward after all in what the news is saying of how they found him, cowering behind a woman. Well, two bullets fixed that, one in the chest and in the head. I think the way he was buried according to religious law is very stupid. hey the guy didn't respect any,one, he should get none, nor the body. Strip the jerk nude and drag him around the street like an animal. I really think that should have been done with the dead body. Then cut the body up and toss it to sharks to eat. Hey, the sharks will be thankful. Also any of you remember the South Park movie of who was really made fun of and lover to the devil in that film? Well Bin Loser is now part of it, in Hell. A nice sick perversion between him, Saddam, and Satan. South Park rules in having no care of who they make fun of. Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) His death is a relef but circumstance makes it bitter: Everybody has the right for a fair trial - even Osama Bin Laden. you don't kill when you can capture - it is uncivilized. a country that claims to be a free, democratic nation assassinates? Democratic nations keeping up death squads and even unashamedly, publicly using them? No thanks - I'll rather stick with a constitutional state and rule of law. Can someone rather deprive the ISI of power? At the end of the day they are the origin and mastermind of all of this. We should make an end to this institution of death rather than amuse the masses with assassination of their retired creations. Under our "USA" Supreme Law he did not have a right to a fair trial, he is not an American Citizen he does not have the same rights as an American Citizen period. Bush gave Obama the right "legally" by executive order to kill Osama bin Laden on sight. Our democracy "laws that were written by elected officials" gave the President the right to use DEVGRU Anyway he sees fit. They are his strong arm not congress's, they answer to him. If he wanted to send them into Iran tomorrow and blow up the Nuke factory etc. He has the right, legally to do so. Edited May 2, 2011 by Wayne S Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Its not simple as that at all; their views encompass a range of grievances toward the West and the unrepresentative governments in their own states. I'm really not here to inflame this discussion, but what you're posting is a cardboard cutout which doesn't really help to understand and ultimately defeat the movement. Right ... It's our fault as usual ... Gotcha ... Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
Les / Creative Edge Photo Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Under our "USA" Supreme Law he did not have a right to a fair trial, he is not an American Citizen he does not have the same rights as an American Citizen period. Bush gave Obama the right "legally" by executive order to kill Osama bin Laden on sight. Our democracy "laws that were written by elected officials" gave the President the right to use DEVGRU Anyway he sees fit. They are his strong arm not congress's, they answer to him. If he wanted to send them into Iran tomorrow and blow up the Nuke factory etc. He has the right, legally to do so. First if anyone thinks OBL would have surrendered or not have gone down fighting well is a fool. That said had he been captured the US Govt. would have had the right to ask to try him for the crimes of 9/11 and then once in US custody OBL would have been covered by all the Constitutional Rights in the USA. When a person is charged with a crime in any country it is that county's laws the govern the judicial follow through. The US Constitution does not only protect Americans inside the USA but any foreign national too who may come to being charged and thus a trial in the USA. Just as in Canada our Charter of Rights and Freedoms gives the same protections to Canadians and foreign nationals and that is the way it is and must be. Now had OBL been captured there would likely have been multiple nations asking to charge him for crimes and that would have been a political/diplomatic issue which IMO probably would have ended in some sort of UN sanctioned War/Hate Crimes trial of OBL. This all said we will not have to find out though as OBL's body is now deep in the Indian Ocean. Edited May 2, 2011 by Les / Creative Edge Photo Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 That's just it, they hate our very existence ... They are like the Borg in Star Trek, they want to assimilate everyone to their beliefs and laws ... When they emigrate to another country, they do not wish to live under the established laws, they want to establish their own and have all the citizens of that country live their way ... If you do not believe the way they do, think the way they do, live the way they do, you are an infidel and should die ... -Gregg Wow. Way to incorrectly generalise 1.5 billion people. Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Wow. Way to incorrectly generalise 1.5 billion people. Way to generalize what I said ... That's not it at all ... I'm talking about the groups that pervert the religion to their wants ... Just like the KKK and other various groups that try to justify their actions and deeds behind Christianity ... Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
vvac201 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 He's dead, Jim! Link to post Share on other sites
Wayne S Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 First if anyone thinks OBL would have surrendered or not have gone down fighting well is a fool. That said had he been captured the US Govt. would have had the right to ask to try him for the crimes of 9/11 and then once in US custody OBL would have been covered by all the Constitutional Rights in the USA. When a person is charged with a crime in any country it is that county's laws the govern the judicial follow through. The US Constitution does not only protect Americans inside the USA but any foreign national too who may come to being charged and thus a trial in the USA. Just as in Canada our Charter of Rights and Freedoms gives the same protections to Canadians and foreign nationals and that is the way it is and must be. Now had OBL been captured there would likely have been multiple nations asking to charge him for crimes and that would have been a political/diplomatic issue which IMO probably would have ended in some sort of UN sanctioned War/Hate Crimes trial of OBL. This all said we will not have to find out though as OBL's body is now deep in the Indian Ocean. Only trial he needed to have under our laws is a call to the President, President answers on phone, "Guilty has charged kill him". Same exact trial he had when the President gave the order to get him. Link to post Share on other sites
Steelbreeze Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Should have set him on cat 1 of cvn-70 and shot his *** across the sea and had destroy escorts play jihad skeet shot games. Link to post Share on other sites
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