Shawn C. Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I have discovered that wiping away oil paint washes with mineral spirits will eat right through the coat of Future. Anyway, I'm off to purchase something that is a bit less aggressive to A) Thin the oil paints with, and B) Wipe away the excess. I understand from previous discussions that either turpentine or turpenoid should work, but I can't seem to remember which one to purchase. Thanks for any help! Shawn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I have discovered that wiping away oil paint washes with mineral spirits will eat right through the coat of Future. Anyway, I'm off to purchase something that is a bit less aggressive to A) Thin the oil paints with, and B) Wipe away the excess. I understand from previous discussions that either turpentine or turpenoid should work, but I can't seem to remember which one to purchase. Thanks for any help! Shawn Since when? I've never had pure mineral spirits attack Future, even if I let it sit on the surface. Turpentine and turpenoid, on the other hand, do because they contain alcohols. Either your mineral spirits are contaminated or the coat of Future is too thin, or something else strange is happening. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn C. Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Well, it is a fairly recent occurrence. I've completed probably 20+ models by thinning my oil paints with odorless mineral spirits. Then, to remove any excess I will use a paper towel with just a tiny bit of mineral spirits on it to quickly wipe the paint in the direction of airflow. Really, the amount of mineral spirits on the model is minimal, as is the time that they are on the surface. I would say the last 2 or 3 models I've weathered have had this happen. I look at where I swiped with the paper towel and you can tell the future/paint is coming off as the surface is dull and the paper towel is picking up a bit of the model paint color! My mineral spirits are always in the sealed container they were purchased in and stored in the garage with minimal light exposure. The container is subject to very hot summers and very cold winters. I'd say it is a 2 1/2 year old container. Is this the cause? Thanks much for your advice on all things solvent based! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Well…it could be. Mineral spirits is actually a blend of closely related hydrocarbons. If the container is stored in a location of extreme temperature fluctuation as you describe for a long enough time, some fractional distillation might occur, as well as recombination with atmospheric water—which would produce alcohols. The same sort of thing occurs with stored gasoline and other solvents. Probably the best way to test this is to get a new can and see if it causes the same problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxos345 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) Good morning Shawn, well i am not so experienced but what i do: Either i do a pin wash, only in the panel lines, so i dont get white spirit around the model or if i want a dirty one i put the wash all over the wing for example, i let it dry completely so that there is no solvent and then i wipe the model without using any solvent. It takes me some time to remove the amount i want but i think it is safer this way. I forgot to tell you that i also use Future. Hope that helps a bit, John Edited May 7, 2011 by zaxos345 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunce Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I use Mona Lisa odorless thinner found @ Michaels. So gentle you could almost eat it. I use it for washes over the top of Tamiya paints WITHOUT any future and there is no removing of the color coats at all. I have had your problem in the past with regular mineral spirits attacking the future, but those days are gone now that I've switched to Mona Lisa. Use a weekly 40% off coupon and get yourself some, you'll never use anything else. also avail at Joanns Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shinai Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Okay I had brought his up before in a previous post, I think you commented before Shawn and were going to give turpenoid a try, and have tried some other techniques on model scraps: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=229055&st=0&p=2187758entry2187758 But, when using oils for weathering, mostly on armor I use a different approach for aircraft, I have used both rubbing alcohol and mineral spirits eat through the coats of Future and lacquer, I used two coats of the stuff over Tamiya acrylics. I found that turpenoid did not. I also found that the Winston & Newton Distilled Turpentine did not as well, but the smell even in a well ventilated area lingered and was maddening. Triarius, I am not sure why I am getting the results I am getting, but the turpenoid seems to work okay for the oil washes. Blunce, I have seen the Mona Lisa stuff before I might try this out in the future. Shawn, with my washes on aircraft I just use a simple acrylic wash. I buy the cheap $1 stuff and dilute it with water and a drop of dish soap. I lay it on the lines I want then after a couple minutes of drying take a damp paper towel and wipe away the excess. After I am done I put a coat of future over it. There are some youtube videos that show this process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 This is a head-scratcher. "Turpenoid" does not have a specific composition, IIRC. Some brands may not contain alcohol, or contain alcohols that do not affect the acrylic in Future. That, or they've changed the formulation of Future, recently. If I remember, I'll call them on Monday and check that. I do know that there are acrylic polymers being used in paints that are affected by mineral spirits. I discovered this to my considerable dismay when applying an oil wash to MisterKit acrylics about six months ago. Overcoating with Future solved the problem. The Mona Lisa solvent sounds very interesting. I may get some as soon as Michaels fixes their credit card security breach. Also, check the composition of your "mineral spirits." It should be near 100% "Stoddards solvent." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shinai Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Triarius, Yeah I know what you mean by head scratching. Hence why I been doing some of my own experiments to figure out what will work. I have never used the old Future, just the Pledge w/ Future. I only wished Winston & Newton distilled turpentine was odorless - then I would be okay, as this stuff seems to work the best and isn't an issue with Future or a lacquer finish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkW Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Lighter (Ronsonol) fluid also works well as a good oil wash solvent that won't attack Future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Lighter (Ronsonol) fluid also works well as a good oil wash solvent that won't attack Future. I second this product. I use Windsor and Newton oils for my washes and Ronsonol has always been great to work with (regardless of acrylic or enamal based gloss coat used). Cheers Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Ghost 531 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 "Turpenoid" does not have a specific composition, IIRC. I thought Turpenoid was a brand name and thus, had a specific composition. It's what I use on an oil wash and I've never had a problem with it cutting through Future. It probably depends how long the Future cured and how hard you scrub on it with the Turpenoid. I've had decal solvents eat Future if a tough decal required a lot of pressing on of the Q-tip. p.s. Try Holbein oils if you haven't yet, their pigment is ground more finely than even the top end Windsor & Newton and doesn't show pigment specs when it's thinned into a wash. Another wash technique you can try is on a matt surface, wet the general area with clean Turpenoid and then pin wash the details with tinted thinner. It doesn't leave the "bathtub ring" effect that you get if you try to use a wash on a dry matt finish paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think you have a bit of a misconception: a brand name need not, and generally does not, have a set composition. A manufacturer can change the composition of their product at any time, and they often do. There is no requirement that they inform purchasers of these changes, except in the case of hazardous ingredients. Look at all the concern when S.C. Johnson changed the name of Future to "Pledge Premium Floor Treatment with Future Shine." Everyone was worried that they had changed the formula. Same formula, new name. Look how many times the formula of Coca-Cola has changed, but the name remains the same. Even scientific names are not immune. Methylene chloride is now dichloromethane. Same molecule, changed nomenclature system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Hmmm, I used Windsor & Newton with Mona Lisa Gum Turpentine. Visually, it looks good, but, well, it's awfully gummy to the touch. I'll try the odorless thinner and lighter fluid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I Use Taltine even over my humbrol enamel clear(only did this once )but over future it works nice its a very low power oil paint solvant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChippyWho Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Lighter (Ronsonol) fluid also works well as a good oil wash solvent that won't attack Future. Seen so many good reports on this method I'll deffo try it next time (if I ever get anything that close to completion...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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