11bee Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 According to the attached, a couple of RAF pilots were boozing it up a few hours prior to a scheduled combat sortie over Libya. They never made it to the cockpit and were subsequently sent home. Hopefully this is not true, pretty sad breakdown in discipline if it is. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmoral/articles/20110603.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I did hear this on BBC News ..but I do not know if was SO true or not... <_< Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 No smoking 8 hours before flying and no alcohol within 50 feet of an airplane. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IrishGreek Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 No smoking 8 hours before flying Does this have something to do with the O2 absorption? Or what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy07 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 No smoking 8 hours before flying and no alcohol within 50 feet of an airplane. Yeah some say 8 hours bottle to throttle, others 8 metres... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) No smoking 8 hours before flying and no alcohol within 50 feet of an airplane. LOL... that might be the new RAF policy but in all seriousness, what is the rule for "bottle to throttle"? I thought airlines had a 24 hr window, not sure what the USAF or RAF have in place. I can't believe any air force would allow you to booze it up and then fly a jet on a combat mission 8 hrs later. I've partied hard a few times and there is no way I was close to 100% 8 hours later. Edited June 3, 2011 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markmarples Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 guys check your facts, they broke the 2 can rule thats all, and were never due to fly, check the raf NEWS WEB SITE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Unrelated to flying, but a few years back I had to deal with some folks from across the pond dealing with managing Disasters/Emergencies caused by nature and the two legged kind. We quickly realized we had a cultural difference in regards to drinking. Another issue we had to bring to light after reading internal documents of response times and issues was an overlooked fact that alcohol was evident in most cases. These guys were not only drinking on the job, but before, and after. The attitude and ignorance of the officials was shocking, but some of the honest ones admitted to the cultural problems England has with drinking. I was aware of London’s historic ties to the bottle, but I had no idea it was spread throughout the country. I almost have to assume, that even though they have a professional military that some of that attitude is alive and well within their military forces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Unrelated to flying, but a few years back I had to deal with some folks from across the pond dealing with managing Disasters/Emergencies caused by nature and the two legged kind. We quickly realized we had a cultural difference in regards to drinking. Another issue we had to bring to light after reading internal documents of response times and issues was an overlooked fact that alcohol was evident in most cases. These guys were not only drinking on the job, but before, and after. The attitude and ignorance of the officials was shocking, but some of the honest ones admitted to the cultural problems England has with drinking. I was aware of London’s historic ties to the bottle, but I had no idea it was spread throughout the country. I almost have to assume, that even though they have a professional military that some of that attitude is alive and well within their military forces. Sounds like the bad old days here in the US 20 years ago with liquid lunches and "road sodas" on the way back from a work site. Can't speak for any other companies but mine is zero tolerance and they mean it. That stuff just doesn't happen anymore. That being said, I do feel that the US military takes it too far. A zero tolerance policy towards ANY alcohol is asinine. You can fight in combat but you can't be trusted with a single Budwiser once in a great while? I enjoyed training with the Canadians. First class troops and when training was concluded, the beer tent was opened. It helps morale more than any non-military person can imagine to occasionally site back with your unit and crack a cold beer or two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) guys check your facts, they broke the 2 can rule thats all, and were never due to fly, check the raf NEWS WEB SITE Other news sources have it a bit more on the ugly side, not saying the RAF is spinning the story (the military would never do that would they?). I guess you ultimately are correct, it seems that they did indeed break the "2 can rule", the question is did they break it by 1 additional can or 10-15? Thu May 26, 3:08 am ET LONDON (AFP) – Two British pilots involved in bombing missions in Libya have been sent home from their forward base in Italy in disgrace after getting drunk, the defence ministry and media reports said. The Royal Air Force (RAF) pilots were stationed at Gioia del Colle, where Britain has 10 Typhoon jets and 12 Tornado ground attack aircraft involved in military action against Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi's forces. "Two RAF personnel have been returned from detachment in Gioia del Colle following inappropriate behaviour; this has not affected the RAF?s ability to sustain its current commitments," a Ministry of Defence statement said on Wednesday. "Individuals who are found to have fallen below the high standards of conduct demanded by the RAF can face appropriate internal action." The Sun newspaper reported that the pilots, believed to be flight lieutenants, had been partying at a hotel in Italy where the British crews are based, had got drunk and were ruled "unfit" to fly their Typhoon jets. According to the BBC, they were sent back to the RAF Coningsby base in Lincolnshire, after a night of drinking at the end of March -- just days after the crews were deployed to Gioia del Colle on March 20. Their actions resulted in a temporary alcohol ban for other RAF personnel serving in the Mediterranean, the broadcaster said. British Prime Minister David Cameron visited Gioia del Colle on April 4, where he praised the "incredible job" the crews were doing in protecting civilians in Libya from Kadhafi's forces. Edited June 3, 2011 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I hear ya, I'm just thankful the DOD didn't axe tobacco in uniform like they tried to do a couple years ago. No smokes or dip downrange worried the hell outta of me, and I don't do either! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Whenever anyone is caught it's always two beers, then a few, then holy hell I drank a six pack followed on by shots of Jack topped of with some Rum and Coke. Not to mention the Jagger bombers they forgot about! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Most airlines in the US have a 12hr rule, while the FAA only requires 8. Please make sure your reread my post and note the word MOST. This is not to be confused with the word ALL. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy07 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 they broke the 2 can rule thats all That they did! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 :D, Not sure about the modern airforces but 30 years ago at Learmonth I was tasked to strap a SQNLDR into a Mirage. He had been drinking for some hours previously and was tasked with a night mission. He was unsteady on his feet, he speach was slurred and his breath was atrocious with the stench of grog. When he got in the aircraft he was forgettinng his cockpit checks so I had to remind him of them. Alcohol has always been a part of the British Commonwealth Forces and always will be, but some people can take it much too far. Some years ago (during the Mirage times) there wasw a young pilot went into the ocean of Newcastle. It was said he was drunk at the time but his distraught father couldn't accept this. He was prepared to spend a million dollars trying to clear his son's name. At the time, a mate of mine's wife was a steward in the Officers' Mess at Williamtown and she testified that she was serving him rocket fuels at 0530 (he was due to fly at 0800 so little time for his body to process all that alcohol.) During my attachment to 481 SQN in 1979 we had a Toyota Corolla brought into the hangar that had been involved in an accident at the front gate. The young pilots in the car were all drunk and the driver died when hit by a car doing 80 km/h on the road outside. Fortunately, now all Dining In Nights are now on Friday nights so they don't have to work the next day. Although I'm a non drinker, I've always found it a bit unusual that USN ships are all dry, although maybe it's not such a bad idea. Maybe that culture came from WW1 when there were a lot of days when aircraft were grounded due weather and there wasn't much else to do but sit in the mess and drink. There are many stories of pilots flying drunk and it is a problem even worse in my humble opinion than DUI. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I once had occasion to have a few beers in the Mess with some RAF Harrier GR3 pilots (Falklands vets) This was late evening and they were flying out from the base at 8am the following morning. I asked if there were any issues with drinking so close to ops - and they replied with the old chestnut about 'no drinking within 10 metres of the aeroplane and no smoking within 24 hrs' etc. They did say though that a quick whiff of oxygen, once strapped in, soon cleared the brain. Ken Edited June 4, 2011 by Flankerman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 :D, On that note Ken, when I was at Williamtown I saw many a yong pilot (especially after a dining in night in the O's Mess) drive up towards the 2OCU headquaters building, pull their cars off the road and duck over to the nearest Mirage, climb the ladder and take the O2 reg, turn it on and take a few very deep pulls of 100% O2 before they went to briefing for the days flying. As I said before, now all dining in nights are on Fridays night so they (mostly) don't have to fly. When I was a kid my parents had taken me to Williamtown to one of the annual Air Force Week air shows there. A pilot took off in a Winjeel to do an aero display and as he was throwing the aeroplane around the sky quite close to the ground a woman standing next to us said to the woman whe was with, "That'll certainly clear his head after last night in the mess," so I gather she ws either a female officer or an officer's wife. Maybe even the pilot's wife, who knows. Back in my day the rule was 12 hours bottle to throttle, now I believe it's 24 hours bottle to throttle, but I've never heard the one about no smoking within 24 hours or drinking within 10 metres of the aircraft. That one must an RAF thing. , Ross. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dmanton300 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Just to clear some things up, it would appear that neither of the pilots were closer than 48 hours away from their next scheduled mission. The bigger issue is that they showed poor judgement on a detachment which is apparently running on the "2 cans per day rule", ignored the rule and got plastered, but even more unforgivably, got found out. Thus we revert to trial by media as so often these days. Neither of them placed any sortie in any danger at any point (unless you're a 3 day hangover sufferer like I am these days!), but both broke the rules. Storm in a tea cup blown up, as ever, by a sensationalist media inventing a story where one didn't exist. Edited June 4, 2011 by Dmanton300 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 but I've never heard the one about no smoking within 24 hours or drinking within 10 metres of the aircraft. That one must an RAF thing. , Ross. It's a Pilot's joke Ross..... The rule is "No drinking within 24 hrs of flying and no smoking within 10 metres of the aircraft" (or something like it). Of course the Pilots just reverse it to "No smoking within 24 hrs" etc....... Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
4scourge7 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 guys check your facts, they broke the 2 can rule thats all, and were never due to fly, check the raf NEWS WEB SITE Second that Mark, well put. The Sun newspaper reported that the pilots, believed to be flight lieutenants, had been partying at a hotel in Italy where the British crews are based, had got drunk and were ruled "unfit" to fly their Typhoon jets. Which proves that The Sun really does come out of Rupert Murdoch`s backside. Cheers, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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