Starting my 1/72 scale Shuttle/Booster kit

[jetplane]

For ET painting, IMO it all depends on which particular STS- mission you are modelling, photo references helps a lot here.

The ET looks darker at the nose when exposed to the weather in time.

I use Tamiya Acrylics colors on my shuttle ET and they work fine if not spot on matching the actual ET.

If mistakes made or not correct I can always washed it off easily with dish washing detergent.

Colors I normally use are - Desert yellow, white, red, chrome yellow, white..and medium gray all flats.

George

[niart17]

Well, it's been a while but I am still slowly making progress on this. I'm still not sure if I want to correct the windows and leave them open or make it more accurate to a shuttle on the pad and put the protection covers on, so for now I'm proceeding as if the windows will be exposed. That leaves me the option of covering them if I am not successful. So my first shot if the first rough window cut-out correction shot primed to check for irregularities. So far not too bad.

With a test paper print of the window decals to check for size.

The next part I want to tackle is the aft heat shield. I feel Revell's shuttle was a little more accurate in this area, but it's a little undersized for the monogram kit. So I'm going to try to scratch a new bulkhead and add the SSME shrouds and heat tiles either from scratch or by cutting the kit ones and using those.

Added the small triangle area at the base. This will be cut down slightly and straightened out across the bottom edge.

That's all the shots I have for now. I hopefully would start making faster progress on this now that there are so many great shuttle builds here to help inspire me. Critiques, comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks,

Bill

[crowe-t]

Bill,

The work you did on the windows is outstanding! I've never seen the Monogram windows look better.

When the Shuttle is in launch configuration and ready to go those window covers are removed. I would say go with the windows and not the covers since you are doing such a great job on them so far.

I'm looking forward to seeing the progress on the rear bulkhead.

Mike.

Edited July 28, 2012 by crowe-t

[niart17]

Thanks Mike! I'm still back and forth on the windows. As I understand it, the covers pretty much stay on the shuttle usually til the day of launch, within hours is what I was told. So if I want to be accurate with the other features I'm planning on adding, then the covers would be on. Not that it matters since it's just a model but you know sometimes accuracy is best. I can wait til the end to decide that so I'm not worried about it. I do need to figure out how to get the glass in and make it look right. More to follow soon I hope.

Bill

[Jay Chladek]

The covers are off when the RSS is rolled back less than 24 hours before scheduled launch. Once the RSS is removed, NASA has no way to pull covers off the windows remotely.

[K2Pete]

Um-m-m ... do I understand that those windows are on the Monogram orbiter? ...Those lovely individual windows are ... the Monogram kit?

Gee whiz Bill, how on earth did you do them?? As Mike said, they're outstanding!

Pete

[niart17]

Thanks Pete, this is the Monogram kit. I actually thought about using the revell beanie cap and window area, but it's really not any more accurate so I just modified them. I used thin sheet plastic to close the windows in totally. Then I filled the seams and sanded it nice and smooth. Once I had a good flat surface I put a paper cutout of the window marking I'm going to print as decals and used that as a timplate to cut out the openings. It looks a little smoother in the pics, but I'm getting it there. The tricky part is going to get the layered glass effect I want to achieve. Doing the inside glass shouldn't be too hard, but putting in glass to form the outer windows I think will be the trick. I have heard that Gator glue makes a good clear glue that actually fills in the edges and dries crystal. I mave have to try that.

Bill

Edited July 30, 2012 by niart17

[DutyCat]

Yes, the infamous Monogram windows. Keep on plugging. You seem to be doing fine.

I screwed them up on my build and will end up using decals, but I learned what "not to do." The good thing is my first 1/72 shuttle is going in my school's library, so it is just going to be a representative piece that will not be scrutinized by other modelers. But I can't wait to take what I am learning on this build and give it another shot.

[Youngtiger1]

Nice to see you back on this project. The WIP sure fell behind and hid a lot of nice tips/trick with it. So, what you and other are saying is that neither of the kits got the windows correct???

Mike

[niart17]

Hey Mike, glad you might be getting at least a little useful info from this thread. Sorry my builds go very slow and very sporatic. With all that life has instore, my modeling time is limited. That and I'm slightly ADD when it comes to modeling subjects.

As for the windows, I'm definately not an expert on it so maybe someone can chime in and make sure I'm not totally off here, but from my observations neither kit's windows are correct. Revell's actual windows are closer, even though to me it looks like the two front panes might be a bit too short and squatty. But I think they totally missed the shape of the top of the "beanie cap". It looks too flat on top and the window area too rounded. Monogram's cabin area shape looks pretty much dead on to my eyes and has a nice round roof area. The real shuttle's windows are all on individual flat surfaces that are blended in to the nose and leave a very distinct shape where it meets. They captured that faceted look pretty well. BUT you have those really really oversized windows. You could just mask off the corrected window shapes and paint everything else, but then you wouldn't have recessed window panes like the real deal. So....you end up in the delima that has faced many modelers and some have triumphed over. In the end, I may just punt and put the covers over the windows and call it a day.

Hope to have more progress soon.

Bill

[crowe-t]

Bill,

I agree, the Revell's windows do look more accurate but still need some work. The 2 front windows look a bit shorter then they should be.

The work you are doing so far on the Monogram orbiter's windows looks much better then what either of the 2 kits started with. I never understood why the windows were so far off on both the 1/72 kits. All the designers had to do was look at a picture of a shuttle.

Mike.

[Jay Chladek]

The window dilema is precisely why I went with the approach I did on my model, using strip styrene to build dividers and size down the window borders. It may not be 100% accurate correct to perhaps how it should be on a real orbiter, but the results worked A LOT better than other things I considered and have seen tried. I've seen only putty used (such as on Dutycat's attempt), but putty doesn't have the same hardened characteristics as styrene and one can overdo the sanding if they aren't careful. Plus, by using the same thickness of styrene strip all around, the sanding process is usually much more even and one is less likely to sand too much in a corner and too little in another corner when using a good quality sanding block. To keep the windows as clear as possible, I usually try to polish and Future the windows after the initial gluing in of the styrene strips and apply tape masks to them to keep them protected. But, usually some repolishing and Future touchups will need to be done to at least some of the windows before masking for paint work. But the beauty of a Future coated window is if I just nick the surface of the Future coat, I can remove the dried Future with Windex and reapply a fresh coat (which I typically do with Microbrushes) if the scratch hasn't gone into the clear part itself.

Before:

After:

Moonraker (same technique, just slightly different divider arrangement for that shuttle)

The only drawback I found with my technique is the corners typically aren't rounded. But after polishing the clear glass and Futuring it, I apply masks with rounded corners to the windows and let the buildup of primer and paint fill those gaps partially. When the window edge decals are applied, that also tends to disguise the edges enough. I suppose if I wanted to get anal about it, I could cut masks from thick sheet styrene and use them as a guide while puttying the corners, but some putties have an annoying tendancy to crack out of small areas if one isn't careful and it adds to the workload. Still, I may try it on my next 1/72 shuttle.

[DutyCat]

Jay, your approach is better than mine, which as you know did not work very well at all. The "next time" I do this kit, I am going to cut sheet styrene panels with the correct window shapes inside and glue them on top of each window pane. Then it is just a matter of puttying up the joints between them. Seems like it would be easy enough.

Edited September 9, 2012 by DutyCat

[Jay Chladek]

Just be aware if you do that, there is an ever so slight asymetry in the front most windows. It looks like one set of the clear inserts sits slightly higher than the other side. So allow yourself a little slop in the inserts to position them as close to centered as possible. Also, in order to get the inserts to the proper thickness, you'll need to cut some rather thick styrene sheet or layer a couple thinner sections together. That is the main reason why I used the strips since I knew the edges were nice and even on both edges. So I didn't have to worry about straight line cutting (just segment cutting). Still, the idea has potential, so I would love to see somebody perhaps try it.

[niart17]

Jay, what Duty is talking about trying is essentially what I did so somebody did try it. I agree the thickness is a bit of a problem since the post that are made to support the kit's clear parts are a little shallow and using sheet plastic that fills it in flat shows to be shallow as well. I think I may attempt to fix that by first making a clay impression of the inside of the window area and using that to perhaps make some plastic frames from the inside. Hopefully that will allow me to get the slightly deeper recessed panes. It also will give me a template to use to cut my clear parts to fit in to the windows. Another thought (and this one may be alittle too crazy) was to perhaps make clear windows with the frames attached (like you'd buy a home window) and glue those in to an oversized opening. The first problem to overcome I see with that idea is the bottom of the opening in the kit for the front windows is pretty much where it needs to be so that doesn't leave much room for a frame. I don't know. There IS a great solution out there, it's just finding it and making it reality. Ideally someone would come out with a full beanie cap replacement with the windows cut right to begin with. It I had the extra kit to hack up I would maybe try to vacuform one, but I don't want to spend that kind of money just for a donor kit. oh well.

Bill

Edited September 11, 2012 by niart17

[K2Pete]

Here's what I did for the windows, and it worked out very nicely for me.

I made another window decal and applied it to a piece of styrene. I used that decal as my guide to cut out the windows. ( I did do it a few times to get it right.)

You can see the window panel with the decal removed.

And this is how it turned out. It was quick, I knew the decals would fit and I also attached one set on the inside of the kit's 'glass' for that extra thickness. It has rounded inside corners and looks correct too.

The time was consumed in getting the decals to fit right, and this took printing the windows on paper and cutting 'em apart and applying them to the model for fit. The whole, if memory serves me correctly was between 2 and 3 hours, start to finish.

[niart17]

Yup, that's what I done did too. Just not nearly as well done as how yours came out. I am considering talking to our laser cutter guys and see what material they could cut that I could use. Then the corners would be almost perfect and not all catiwhompus like mine came out. If they can cut something I can use...I will definately re-do mine.

[DutyCat]

Jeesh, if the original mold makers knew how much their "oversize windows" decision was going to cause us pain. After all of this, I am pretty much in agreement with Bill that what is needed is just a flat out "beany cap" replacement, maybe I'll make one on my next build and cast it. I have at least two extra Monogram shuttles in my stash, plus two full stacks.

[niart17]

Well, about time for another small update. First I want to announce that the Monogram window dilemma has claimed another victim (sorry Pete, hope I'm not disappointing ya' :D ). Although I definately feel I was on the right track to getting the windows correct. And if i were more patient and willing to sweat it out a little longer, I think I would have come out with some really nice windows. My next Monogram shuttle will have that feature corrected. BUT After putting much thought into it and realizing that if I'm going to the trouble of making it as accurate as I can for a model that is somewhere between "roll-out and not quite launch day" then the only way to be true to the subject is to have the windows covered. I'm going to have engines covered, aft engine area access panels open and all other covers on, so the window covers are the "right" way to go. It also was holding up the build longer than I wanted to so ANYWAY...here are the latest pics. Glued the payload doors on, and filled the seams with it's first pass of filler. Probably may take a few more putty and sand sessions to get it done but it's coming along and actually looking like a shuttle sort of now. The good thing is now I don't have to worry about masking the windows for paint. Easy peasy.

I also cut open a couple of aft panels. Now I need to add a little interior detail since it's a fairly large opening.

[Firecaptain]

Here are those nozzles from Fisher that were mentioned early on in the thread...

Fisher Nozzles

[crowe-t]

Bill,

I understand what you are saying about this build needing the window covers. I don't ever remember seeing a shuttle model with window covers so I'm sure yours will be a first. I'm considering in the future building a 1/144 stack in a roll out configuration with the window covers. In 1/144 the window covers will make it much easier. Cutting the tape masks for my current 1/144 stack project was a pain in the you know what. :lol:

However from what I can see in your pictures the windows look very good.

I hope you keep these updates coming.

Mike.

[niart17]

Thanks for letting me off the hook Pete, I was afraid it would appear to be a chickening out...(shhh...it is). I hope the window covers and a few other features will be different from most shuttle builds. I am going to put the door stiffeners on (I like that yellow contrast on the white doors, really stands out) and all the engine covers on, access panels open as much as I can, the rain gutter around the aft engine access covers and possibly even those cables on the nose RCS covers if they'll show up at this scale. (not sure what those are but they look more like some sort of tubing with valves) I am still thinking about doing the Tail Service Mast for the display stand to help strengthen the stack from fallng. We'll see how it goes though.

Hey Firecaptain, Thanks for the link. Those nozzles did turn out great, the little fix made a big difference. I hope I wasn't too harsh on you guys with my initial critique of the pics. I just was excited to see any new product for a shuttle and wanted to help it be as good as it can be. I would love to use your product but at this time can't justify adding that much cost to the build. Perhaps if it's more financially practical for me before I finish it, I may opt to get them. But in the meantime I'm going to attempt to make due with what I have or can make.

Hope to have more done soon.

Thanks for checking it out guys.

Bill

[niart17]

Speaking of engines...I've done a little more to the aft heat shield. I cut out the engine surround area from the kit and test fit it on my new heat shield. It will work but it's not quite the right shape. It's a little too rounded and the center blanket section isn't big enough. Not sure if I'm going to worry about making a better one since it's not going to be seen very easily. We'll see. The final pic is showing a crude engine without details (do yourself a favor and buy Fisher Models SSME's or Real Space's depending on your preference. Mine pale in comparison.

Comment, Critiques and suggestions are welcome.

Bill

[crowe-t]

Thanks for letting me off the hook Pete, I was afraid it would appear to be a chickening out...(shhh...it is). I hope the window covers and a few other features will be different from most shuttle builds. I am going to put the door stiffeners on (I like that yellow contrast on the white doors, really stands out) and all the engine covers on, access panels open as much as I can, the rain gutter around the aft engine access covers and possibly even those cables on the nose RCS covers if they'll show up at this scale. (not sure what those are but they look more like some sort of tubing with valves) I am still thinking about doing the Tail Service Mast for the display stand to help strengthen the stack from fallng. We'll see how it goes though.

Hey Firecaptain, Thanks for the link. Those nozzles did turn out great, the little fix made a big difference. I hope I wasn't too harsh on you guys with my initial critique of the pics. I just was excited to see any new product for a shuttle and wanted to help it be as good as it can be. I would love to use your product but at this time can't justify adding that much cost to the build. Perhaps if it's more financially practical for me before I finish it, I may opt to get them. But in the meantime I'm going to attempt to make due with what I have or can make.

Hope to have more done soon.

Thanks for checking it out guys.

Bill

Bill,

The aft heat shield you are making looks very good. I wouldn't worry too much about the engine surround areas. As you said they won't be seen much.

BTW, I'm Mike, I let you off the hook. :lol: You'll have to wait and see what Pete says.

Mike.

[niart17]

BTW, I'm Mike, I let you off the hook. :lol: You'll have to wait and see what Pete says.

Mike.

Dude! I'm sorry. I think that's the second time I've done that to you. Obviously I need to sharpen my reading comprehension skills. You have a free pass to call me Bob from now on. The bad thing is now I have to sweat it out waiting to see if Pete is going to let me off the hook. After I gave him a hard time about using Charmin toilet paper instead of Angel Soft in his cut-away build, he may not be as forgiving. I may not sleep well at all till I find out. :D

I think I will just go with the kit's surrounds unless I stumble upon something that happens to be the right shape and size. Thanks again for the comments Mark

Bill