Starting my 1/72 scale Shuttle/Booster kit

[crowe-t]

Bill,

I assume acrylic paint will also work on these parts?

Mike.

[niart17]

Bill,

I assume acrylic paint will also work on these parts?

Mike.

I would imagine. I'll try some Citadel paints on the other ring tomorrow and see how it handles it.

[crackerjazz]

Hi Bill, wonderful to see how your 3D print came out! I'd go with the modeled bolt too, as it might not be as easy for everyone to source the right size bolt (which will have to have a washer I suppose?) but there are lots of glue types to choose from to secure plastic. And the printing materials are quite fragile, I find - more so than resin and especially styrene. Acrylic is the recommended paint by the way, but I'll be trying out the Tamiya rattle can (synthetic lacquer) and see how my nozzles fare. They do recommend cleaning the wax residue off really well.

[K2Pete]

Here's a starting point for scale nuts and bolts ...

http://www.scalehardware.com/

[spaceman]

Thanks Pete for the nice source. There is nothing, there is no apparently.

[niart17]

One of the next parts I'll be focusing on for possible 3d printing. I posted a request looking for reference pics on this so if you get a chance check it out and see if you have anything. I still have to add the attachment point block and the cable tray top section. I need to make some good measurments on the kit to make sure they will fit as seamlessly as possible. Not sure if I want to keep the same system the kit uses for the top connection to the ET or just make it where you'd install a metal rod and glue them, which might be stronger. There are a few other small details to add to it as well like the camera housings, a few rivets here and there etc...but overall it's getting there. I think I will end up doing a couple of versions of these, one without the raised yellow access cover in place and one with it. Take note of the recessed bolt line around the nose cone to cylinder joint. I hope that feature will print ok cause I like the look of it.

Critiques comments or suggestions?

Bill

Edited March 7, 2013 by niart17

[crowe-t]

Very nice but the separation motors need work! :lol: ;)

[Hotdog]

Here are some images you may find useful:

[Youngtiger1]

Brother Bill, you sure are adding some $$ into this project with all those resin parts. I can't blame you with your skills on CAD. If I knew how, I would have already started on some of the things I want to build/have and are not available any place. Well, as for the 3D printer...I'd say with in next couple off years it will be cheaper that every AM guy will have one in his collection. Anyway, great work as usual. So, keep it coming.

Mike

[niart17]

Thanks for the pics Hotdog, they will come in handy. The more photos the better I always say. Those first two pics really show the difference between the older SRB tops and the newer ones. Monogram's look more like the older ones and I think if one is building an older stack they are fine as is for the most part.

And Mike, thanks for the compliment. Some of this 3D stuff might not actually make it on to this build, and modeling it on the computer doesn't cost anything. But someone may be interested in going all out and if some of this stuff helps them then I'll feel good about that. But yeah, if I do all the parts I want to do, it will bring the price up. So far, other than the ETAR rings, there has been no aftermarket used on my build. So in the grand scheme of things I'm not yet to the price point that alot of people put in to thier jet builds with aftermarket cockpits, photoetch, engine nozzles, weapons, metal landing gear, decals, etc.... One area I would LOVE to replace and I know I could easily do it in 3D much better than the kit, is the ET innertank section. But I suspect that would be the piece that would push the price into the no-go zone since it's so large. That and I'd have to hack a fairly expensive kit up to add it. but it would be nice. We'll see.

Anyway, thanks guys. Stay tuned. I hope to have some more done this weekend and I may throw some paint on it. I figure no matter which way I go with the shuttle surface, painting it won't hinder anything so why not try it first? If I don't like how it's going I can then decide to cover with tape or decals or whatever...

Bill

[niart17]

Well, the good, the bad and the not too ugly. The good news; my SSME's came in on Friday, earlier than I expected! :woo:/>/> Unfortunately My wife went on a trip so I didn't have my camera to get pics of them up yet. :doh:/>/> I'll take some tonight and post them. The bader news, the white strong flex may not be the material to use for the SSMEs. :(/>/> It is just a tad too course and because of all the piping you can't really get in and smooth it out very much. (I think the SRB skirts and noses will be perfect in this material as they both have a slightly course surface in real life). I'm still learning the in's and out's of all of this stuff so some experimenting is expected. All hope is not lost on what I have though, I think I can build up some paint and clear on it and get them looking right. The good news pt. 2 is the edge of these things are really nice and thin; surprisingly thin! The not so good news is I think I made some of the piping a little too thin. It looks more like the natural metal pipiing in the factory before it has the insulation covering on them. Again I think some paint will help them out. There were a couple of small breaks on couple of the lines that I made when handling them, but nothing too hard to fix. :thumbsup:/>/>

So, the consensus, I think I may try to beef up the piping a tad, and re-print it in frosted detail just to see how it comes out. The problem is at this time, that may make the price a tad too high for market (that's not really why I'm doing them anyway so no big deal) I'll still probably make them available and who knows, maybe the nice thin lip and spacing under the piping on the surface might be worth a little more to some. Or with a little work they might be happy with the WSF material. Or even better, Shapeways is talking about expanding their U.S. production factory so perhaps the materials cost will come down once it starts getting more and more popular.

I did get some work on the shuttle done, concentrating mainly on the OMS to fuselage seams. Man that area is a real pain in the rear to get it right. On the real shuttle, there is no raised area behind the payload doors like the model has and it's not an easy area to work in once you get the pods on and try to smooth all of it down. Again, pics will follow later.

Thanks,

Bill

[crowe-t]

Bill,

I can't wait to see the pictures of the SSME's. I just looked at the 3D pictures you posted and see what you mean about the piping looking like the way it does before the insulation is applied.

I hope you will scale the file down to 1/144, I could use a couple of sets. It seems like, especially in 1/144 printing in frosted detail is the way to go.

Keep us updated.

Mike.

[niart17]

Ok, for better or worse, here are the pics of the nozzles in WSF material. Not a great model for that material. I think I can work them to something useful but it definately would be MUCH better in Frosted Detail or Frosted Ultra Detail.

Raw and unpainted on right. You can tell the piping is a little too thin.

No treatment other than black primer. You can see how thin the edge is though, very promising if it were the right material.

More pics to come when I work on them a little more.

Thanks for looking. And oh yeah Mike, once I figure out the wall thickness I'll shrink the models to 1/144. The price of those will probably be more in line even in the ultra detail.

Bill

[niart17]

And a few pics of the shuttle progress. I worked on the seams by to tail/OMS joint and got some of the paint on. Still have to work on a few rough spots but it's getting there. Still not happy with the area immediately behind the payload doors, it's supposed to be pretty smooth back there.

Decals will cover a lot of this, but I wanted to have a dark undercoat first and a guide.

Decals will also cover this so I didn't worry about getting all of the intricate tile area details here.

The paint color is MM Panzer grey.

Still playing with different texture ideas.

Thanks for checking it out.

Bill

[Hotdog]

Bill,

Those engines look great! I guess I would have to see them close up in order to see what you're talking about. But from this distance they look like they could be just as good or better than the Fisher engines.

The area around the tail/payload bay doors looks like it can be trouble. Something I can look forward to on my 1/72 build. Did you have to use any styrene to straighten it up, or did you just stick with putty?

Will you be using decals on the white areas too, or just the black tile areas?

[niart17]

I appreciate it Hotdog, but from what I can see of the Fisher nozzles, these particular prints of it are not as nice. It's hard to make out the rough texture in my pics, but it's not smooth enough and there is a little detail loss because of that. They will be really good in a different material, but I'm afraid the price would be a little too high, for now at least. The two things that I feel are better is the wall thickness and the space under the pipes. Once I get the pipes a hair thicker and printed in a detail plastic, I think they would hold their own.

I did have to put a couple of thin strips (.010" X .100") to build the area up a little and then putty over that to blend it in. It took a lot of blending and sanding and still has a few spots needing work.

As for as decals, I'm still not sure how I want to approach it. Most all of the black tile areas will be decals. I THINK the white tile areas will be decals and some of the blankets areas might be as well. The goal I'm after is pretty tricky. I want the subtle raised blanket area on the sides of the fuse and parts of the payload, but I don't think I want to go all tape...so I'm still stumped about how to get what I want.

I'm open to any and all ideas.

Bill

[Hotdog]

If it's any consolation, the white decal paper from Belcal (Bell Decal) is thicker than the clear decal paper. Perhaps you could use white decal paper instead of clear for the areas you are talking about? Maybe even tack on two layers if the scale isn't quite enough there with the single layer.?

The downside is the Belcal white decal paper is very rubbery and harder to cut without ripping the printed image along the edges. So I try to avoid using it and use clear decal sheets whenever possible. Belcal is supposed to be the best brand though. It's very good about not breaking after sliding it off the paper, resists wrinkling and not too sticky should it get stuck to itself.

[crowe-t]

Bill,

Despite any rough texture the SSME nozzles look amazing! The wall thickness looks perfectly in scale. As soon as you thicken up the piping they'll be perfect but they look near perfect now.

BTW, Is the MM Panzer Gray you used called Panzer Schwarzgrau RAL 7021?

I see this color on Testors website in both enamel and Acryl. I assume you used Acryl on these???

Is the gray neutral looking or does it have a blue tint?

The reason I'm asking is I'm considering using this color in the Acryl line, possibly mixed with steel for the SSME's on my STS-135 project. I'm not 100% satisfied with the color I mixed for the SSME's on my Revell Discovery and am looking for something a bit different.

Mike.

Edited March 12, 2013 by crowe-t

[niart17]

The Panzer Gray is actually a spray can enamel. (I get lazy and used rattle cans waaay to often) It has an FS number on it FS 36076, which is surprising based on the name, but it's what it says. I'd say it's maybe a tad toward the blue side, but not obviously blue. It's pretty dark and makes a pretty good scale effect black in some cases. It MIGHT work for SSME's but it would need a lighter dry brushing to make it show up right.

Bill

[crowe-t]

Thanks Bill!

I need an acrylic paint I can mix with steel and Panzer Schwarzgrau looks close to what you used.

Mike.

[niart17]

There's been a question about the size of these SSMEs compared to the other nozzles. I'll take a pic of them next to the Monogram kit nozzles whenever I get a chance but for now, this might help visualize the size. I based the dimensions on a drawing I found on the internet (so it must be accurate right? "Bonjer" :woot.gif:/>/> ) but I believe the image originated from the Jenkins book so it's probably pretty close. It listed the overall Dia. as 7.8' so I went with that as my O.D. and then used photos to get the shape and height to where it looked right to me. I couldn't get the overal wall thickness thin enough for the lip so I added a taper at the edge and beveled that slightly so it looks very thin from the end. The taper shows up much more in the drawing, but in real life it's not noticable. Also one of the things about Monograms bells is it looks like they maybe used the vent lines as the outside shape and it made them look too bulbus at the top of the ARC to me. Here are some dimensions thrown on my model. Keep in mind this is before I make any changes to the size of the piping. BTW, dimensions are inches in top and millimeters on bottom.

Edited March 12, 2013 by niart17

[Hotdog]

Bill,

I will be at the Space & Rocket Center on Thursday of this week. There is a flown SSME there I can touch. Would you like me to get the actual measurements for you while I am there?

[niart17]

Bill,

I will be at the Space & Rocket Center on Thursday of this week. There is a flown SSME there I can touch. Would you like me to get the actual measurements for you while I am there?

Sure! Make sure you get pics and of course pics of you climbing all over the thing getting dimensions. And if security doesn't allow that, then make sure you get video of them "escorting" you out... you know, for youtube! Kidding, I'm a kidder. But yeah, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be interested in some good numbers and pics of one of those thing! Thanks.

Bill

[Hotdog]

Ha! I think I can get most of the measurements without any climbing. I should be able to reach most of the stuff on your diagram with a pocket tape measure. Sometimes they have it sitting on its side, other times it is sitting straight up on the opening, so I don't know if I will be able to get the measurement of the outer rim thickness or not.

Here is what it looked like the last time I was there:

[crowe-t]

Bill,

Thanks for posting that diagram with the 1/72 SSME Measurements.

I just looked through my copy of Return To Flight Space Shuttle Discovery and on page 20 there are SSME Measurements listed. It says the large nozzles on the SSME are 113 inches long and the outside diameter at the exit is 94 inches.

Mike.