Starting my 1/72 scale Shuttle/Booster kit

[niart17]

So let's see, 94" divided by 72 is 1.30555". The model is 1.300. DARNIT I'm .0055" off.

But I am pretty short in the length (about .098" by the numbers). Honestly though, it's hard to say about that deminsion since it really depends on where that number is taken from. Does it start at the top of that last brighter colored flange area, or does it start up above that slightly in that dark area below where the pipes are coming down? I think some of that area is inside the orbiter as well so I opted to make mine end just above the line where the pipes start to go back into the nozzle. It may be a tad short but I don't think I'm off too much.

The more I look at pics of the real thing and the more I mess around with the models, I don't think it's as bad as I originally thought. The surface could stand to be a tad smoother, but painted and sealed I think these will have the proper look. Time will tell. One thing the texture is going to make difficult is getting the "do not crush insulation" decals to lay down and look painted on. Fun times ahead.

Bill

[crowe-t]

I'd be more concerned about getting the nozzle opening correct, which you did, although you did go .0055" off.

As far as the length it's hard to tell where the numbers are coming from. Judging by the pictures you posted yours look dead on.

Can you take a macro picture of one of the SSME's? I'd like to see one real close up.

Mike.

Edited March 12, 2013 by crowe-t

[niart17]

I'd be more concerned about getting the nozzle opening correct, which you did, although you did go .0055" off. :woot.gif:/>

As far as the length it's hard to tell where the numbers are coming from. Judging by the pictures you posted yours look dead on.

Can you take a macro picture of one of the SSME's? I'd like to see one real close up.

Mike.

The smallest lens I have is a 50mm f1.8 and I don't think I can force my camera to shoot macro. I've never tried so I'll have to see. What I can do that might help is run a dry brushing on the painted one and make the texure stand out more. Sort of like taking the make-up off a fashion model, but if it shows what's there, then so be it. I'll see when I can get to that.

[crowe-t]

Bill,

Can you hold one of the SSME's up the rear of the shuttle and take a picture? If you can temporarily tape one in place that would be better.

Mike.

[niart17]

Bill,

Can you hold one of the SSME's up the rear of the shuttle and take a picture? If you can temporarily tape one in place that would be better.

Mike.

I'll tack all three of them on with some clay-tac later and take a pic. I'll put the OMS nozzles I have too so it will be better indication of what it all looks like together.

BTW are you sure about that measurment you PM'd me with on those other people's part (won't mention names)? I assume you are talking about 1/144 scale? At 1/144 that would be a dia. of 102" which is still off a bit, about 8" inches full size or a little under 1/16" (.056") to scale. Surprised nobody has ever mentioned that as long as they've been around. I guess only game in town is always better.

I'll try to get some pics tonight if time allows. The womenfolk of the household got back from their trip so I have some huggins to get in. Feels awesome when they are still young enough to really be happy to see you every day and miss you when they are gone for even a short time. I hope that last!

Bill

[crowe-t]

That measurement I sent you was from a 1/144 SSME nozzle and it measures 18 mm diagonal across the opening.

Mike.

Edited March 12, 2013 by crowe-t

[niart17]

As requested. SSMEs on the orbiter.

That's about as close as I can get with my camera. I don't have a macro option with this lens. They aren't oriented properly or aligned carefully, just tacked on with clay. Also keep in mind these still aren't sealed or anything, just some paint.

BIll

Edited March 13, 2013 by niart17

[niart17]

A couple of some playing with ideas for doing the blankets. This technique wouldn't give the texture and raised surface but I think it would look pretty good for some areas. This is grey pencil colors for the outline of the tiles and blankets and regular pencil for the markings and some details. IF I go with this approach I would weather over this once it's sealed.

Bill

[crowe-t]

Bill,

Thanks for posting the pictures with the SSME's attached.

What paint/color did you paint the SSME?

I really like the penciled on blankets. While it doesn't give a textured surface, even at 1/72 scale surface texture can look a bit too obvious. I like this approach.

Mike.

Edited March 13, 2013 by crowe-t

[niart17]

Thanks Mike, I am rather leaning towards the prisma color pencils and pencil technique mayself. It gives me a bit of control on the model as opposed to trying to get decals to fall right. I can use key points on the shuttle like window edges, door seals etc...as guides as to where the blankets or tiles should fall. Plus it has an eraser! I think I'll go this route. Maybe draw them on a little darker than needed, then use artist oils to put panel color variations slightly exaggerated then shoot a thin dusting of white to blend it back down a little. I've done it before on aircraft where I drew all panel lines on instead of recessed or raised panels and it came out pretty good. We'll see how it goes.

As for the painted SSME, that's been painted black primer (I think it was Walmart rattle can...I know I know, but it's cheap) followed by the same MM Panzer Grey as the shuttle. The red, which might be a tad too bright, is a Citadel paint and I don't recall the exact color. Since I'm going with covers on these engines there will be a red segment toward the lip. I've noticed that even when the fod covers are off, on the pad the last section has a red cover for quite a while til launch time. Must protect those exposed lines at the end.

As for the shape of the attachment points on the SSME's, I'm still not sure about that area. It's a bit tricky to find a pic of them from dead straight side without some camera distortion and without the pipes in the way of the bell profile. If you have something like that it would help a lot. Even with the ones you sent me (great pics) all 3 would yield totally different shapes. That's why I leaned on the Jenkins drawing for an average between the photos I had.

If Hotdog reads this before his trip to get measurments, if he could get the three dimensions that would most help, the diameter of the top ring (attachment point), the diameter of the bottom lip (think we have that pretty close) and the distance between those two planes (not along the curve but horizontal distance. that might be hard to get), that would help a lot. the curvature can be played with and tweaked, but if those aren't right, then it's not going to be right.

Thanks,

Bill

[Hotdog]

Thanks Mike, I am rather leaning towards the prisma color pencils and pencil technique mayself. It gives me a bit of control on the model as opposed to trying to get decals to fall right. I can use key points on the shuttle like window edges, door seals etc...as guides as to where the blankets or tiles should fall. Plus it has an eraser! I think I'll go this route. Maybe draw them on a little darker than needed, then use artist oils to put panel color variations slightly exaggerated then shoot a thin dusting of white to blend it back down a little. I've done it before on aircraft where I drew all panel lines on instead of recessed or raised panels and it came out pretty good. We'll see how it goes.

As for the painted SSME, that's been painted black primer (I think it was Walmart rattle can...I know I know, but it's cheap) followed by the same MM Panzer Grey as the shuttle. The red, which might be a tad too bright, is a Citadel paint and I don't recall the exact color. Since I'm going with covers on these engines there will be a red segment toward the lip. I've noticed that even when the fod covers are off, on the pad the last section has a red cover for quite a while til launch time. Must protect those exposed lines at the end.

As for the shape of the attachment points on the SSME's, I'm still not sure about that area. It's a bit tricky to find a pic of them from dead straight side without some camera distortion and without the pipes in the way of the bell profile. If you have something like that it would help a lot. Even with the ones you sent me (great pics) all 3 would yield totally different shapes. That's why I leaned on the Jenkins drawing for an average between the photos I had.

If Hotdog reads this before his trip to get measurments, if he could get the three dimensions that would most help, the diameter of the top ring (attachment point), the diameter of the bottom lip (think we have that pretty close) and the distance between those two planes (not along the curve but horizontal distance. that might be hard to get), that would help a lot. the curvature can be played with and tweaked, but if those aren't right, then it's not going to be right.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill,

See if this photo helps. The attachment point is just above the 9th ring, where the exposed metal area is.

I'll do my best to get those dimensions for you when I am there tomorrow.

[Hotdog]

Hi Bill,

Here are the measurements I was able to get yesterday when I was in Huntsville:

I could not get the circumference around the mouth of the nozzle because the pocket tape measure I brought was too short. Hopefully the measurements I got will be useful though. Most noteable is the overall length of the nozzle from mouth-to-throat. When measured on the outside, the length is a lot longer than the measurement Mike quoted from his book, which is likely the length if you measured the length standing on the inside of the nozzle and going straight from the top to the floor. Also, I read somewhere that the length of the SSME's changed over time with the various upgrades. So you probably have some room to play with on that one.

Hope this helps.

[niart17]

Awesome, that might help quite a bit. The difference in length could be contributed to a lot of things. Some of that difference might be because of measuring the length of the ARC as opposed to the horizontal plane to plane distance. But that couldn't be that much of a difference. The other thing again is where are those dimensions starting from. The top of the ring, the bottom of the top ring area, the nozzle mount surface...a lot of different factors there. And then like you say, maybe that length varied through out the years. I think I'll just rely on getting it looking right as possible and hope it comes out ok.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it. I hope you had a good time on your trip there!

Bill

Edited March 15, 2013 by niart17

[DutyCat]

Bill,

See if this photo helps. The attachment point is just above the 9th ring, where the exposed metal area is.

I'll do my best to get those dimensions for you when I am there tomorrow.

Great pic. It will help quite a bit when detailing this area.

[niart17]

whoa dude! it's like I fell asleep and woke up not knowing where my car was. Glad to be back on-line. Great job Steve and gang getting the forums back up. So anyway, I've been doing a little 3d work and some actual work on this build with the parts I've ordered. Here are a few shots of the painted and un-painted SRB aft skirts and the SRB attach rings. I think they came out pretty good. They require a little touch with some sandpaper, but since the actual skirts have an insulation layer, the texture actually works to my advantage.

Next to the kit part. The separation motors came out pretty nice. and even the tie-down bolts have some really nice detail

next to the modified kit part.

un-painted parts on the stack.

And then...(to be continued)

Edited September 30, 2013 by niart17

[niart17]

...I did some 3d modeling work on the ET intertank area. This is a large part and will cost somewhere around $70 to have printed so I'm not sure if it would be a very marketable item. BUT it is going to be much more accurate and will save a ton of work if you want to add the thrust panel details. I originally had a lot of inside bracing to build up for strength, but that was driving the cost to over $100, so I figure if it's a little flimsy I can use sheet stock and make bracing. The important thing is the outer details. Now to order it and get the nerve to hack out a big section of the kit's ET...gulp.

Here are the LOX line and repress line brackets and fittings. You can see the thrust panel details here as well.

And here is the access hatch (left open for cost, can easily add sheet plastic panel) and the vent connection.

I've also done some more on the SRB tops. I'll some pics of those up as soon as I can.

any comments critiques and suggestions are always welcome.

Bill

Edited September 30, 2013 by niart17

[crowe-t]

Bill, The SRB aft skirts and attach rings look amazing! BTW, how much is the cost of printing these parts?

I look forward to seeing the inter-tank area printed.

Mike.

Edited September 26, 2013 by crowe-t

[Hotdog]

Those SRB skirts are drop-dead gorgeous! Love the detail of the separation motors and bolts. Looks like the real-freakin' thing!

Can't wait to see the intertank and the SRB cones.

[niart17]

Thanks guys. I'm not sure what the cost will be. I'm working all of that up now. suggestions? (and no, not $1.00 :woot.gif:/>/>/>/> )

Here are some progress shots on the SRB tops.

Overall shot

Separation Motor covers

Attachment point (slotted for fine tuning of the fit) and the cone to body bolt ring detail (they might show up :pray:/>/>/>/> ) There is an area shaped like two arrows raised in this area that I need to work out how to wrap around the surface. That and figure out the best way to represent the actual attachment bolts and such.

And finally a detail that I hope will print out. These are some I guess rivets that show up in patterns at various locations. This is just the first set of them that will be copied around wherever needed.

Thanks again for looking.

Bill

Edited September 30, 2013 by niart17

[niart17]

Forgot to post these as well. These are the Ice Frost Ramps for the ET repressurization lines. I may try to put these in the same model as the intertank and it be available in one package.

I still need to confirm the repress line diameters, but these should be pretty close.

Bill

Edited September 30, 2013 by niart17

[crowe-t]

Bill, These are freakin' gorgeous!

Mike.

[niart17]

Thanks Mike. To add to what were discussing earlier, the other advantage of something like Shapeways is all of these models can be modified slightly for variations on the real parts based on time frame and there's no extra cost of having to re-master them to cast. Just make the change and then they can be printed. Or if one would want just the sep. motors, or just the skirts without them, that's doable very easily. For instance the thrust panel's machined pattern vary slightly, if one wanted to model a specific mission and can provide photos, then they can have a custom part for that one mission and it wouldn't require a new tooling. Yeah, this is a great tool I think. And it should only get better as the technology grows.

Bill

[crowe-t]

Bill, I see what you are saying about these printed parts being easier to make changes to or just parts being able to be printed.

BTW, what glue are you using to attach them? CA, epoxy???

Do they require any special prep work other then primer and paint? Will any paint type work?

Mike.

[niart17]

Bill, I see what you are saying about these printed parts being easier to make changes to or just parts being able to be printed.

BTW, what glue are you using to attach them? CA, epoxy???

Do they require any special prep work other then primer and paint? Will any paint type work?

Mike.

I haven't glued any of them yet but I understand any cyano will work. Also no sure about what fillers like putties will work. Like I said, these came in a little powdery so I rinsed them in warm water and then hit them with some fine wet/dry sanding. I didn't want them too smooth though because the real skirts have a good amount of texture to them. I sprayed these with a grey primer in an attempt to get better pics of them but it didn't photo well so that wasn't necessary. Then I sprayed them with Rustoleum Heirloom satin finish white. I've heard that some people prefer to coat it with future first but I wasn't sure how well spray cans would react with future so I didn't. I'll probably future them before I add decals and then dull coat.

[crackerjazz]

Crikey! I feel like I've woken up from deep sleep in a cryogenic chamber and stepped out into some future time. Those printed parts --- wow! Not bad at all! I've used Bondo and regular Testors ones and they hold up pretty well to those putties. I haven't seen any dreadful reactions anyway - no melting or distortion.