GreyGhost Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Here's one way to look at it Holmes, A Blu-ray player will play DVDs also but a DVD player won't play Blu-rays ... To get the most out of an HDTV, Blu-ray is HD also ... I would recommend going to a good Video Equipment store that has a Viewing Room and check out the difference ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Movies are so crisp and clear they look more like they were shot on videotape rather than film (if anything, the original 1977 Star Wars looked too sharp and clear.) While I will probably buy Blue Ray discs from here on out, I see no real reason to go back and replace the stuff I already have on DVD. My understanding is that videotape is significantly inferior to film and even more so if your are comparing it to 70mm. There were a few Twilight Zone episodes filmed with videotape as a cost cutting measure and they look way inferior to the filmed episodes. Of course that was in the early 60's and video technology has improved. Not sure what you mean by 1977 Star Wars being too clear, unless you are referring to the limits of period special effects technology and how too much resolution can reveal the tricks. As I indicated in my original post, many older movies and TV shows do not benefit from Hi-Def. They are best enjoyed at standard DVD resolution. Even with a modern production, Hi-Def on a regular, character driven show/movie is a marginal improvement over DVD and not really needed. No real need to see "Gran Torino," old re-runs of, MASH or Seinfeld on Blu-Ray. Where Hi-Def shines is in heavy action, grand vista type presentations (Sci-Fi, war, sports, documentaries like "Planet Earth," etc.). Although older stuff that was released on DVD is now getting re-released on Blu-Ray, beware as sometimes it is just marketing. A old film or TV show usually has to receive some restoration attention or else it can look worse on Blu-Ray. Edited June 19, 2011 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Here's one way to look at it Holmes, A Blu-ray player will play DVDs also but a DVD player won't play Blu-rays ... To get the most out of an HDTV, Blu-ray is HD also ... I would recommend going to a good Video Equipment store that has a Viewing Room and check out the difference ... Gregg Gregg Appreciate that , thankx...will do that before buying a new TV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 I was kinda thinking the same thing with your whole "robust mature system" comment. So, I am using what you view as a glorified child's toy? No patronizing there. The "mature" in my statement was referring to the technology, not the user! A mature system has gone through its early teething problems and shortcomings, and has become rock solid reliable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J.C. Bahr Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 There is an actual difference between upscaling and Blu-ray ...Don't forget, DVD is at a native 480i and only so much can actually be squeezed out of that ... >>> Clicky <<< I still remember the days when DVD was considered so much better than VHS. I'll give you that, but at the same time... it starts to get to the point where "do we really, really need it?" I've already bought and watched several Blu-ray's and am really not that much more impressed over standard DVD. I think I'm finally at overload and not really going to be too impressed until movies get to the point of VR and I'm "IN" the movie! :lol: BTW - the new 3D thing is not doing it for me either. Sony has had partners in the development of Blu-ray also, such as Sam-sung and others ... >>> Clicky <<< I stand corrected... but for not much more real appreciable improvement really, why is the price staying so high instead of coming down? DVD's both new and used are at least more affordable than anything I've seen available on Blu-ray, unless it was something fairly old that nobody really wants and is probably something that is probably not going to benefit and is just a "marketing" ploy. I think this was the point my friends were trying to make. Doesn't seem that DVD was out for too long before it started becoming competitive and the prices quickly dropped... but not seeing the same thing with Blu-ray... at least certainly not that I've noticed. Also, even though their initial release price might be high at first on new releases, DVD's at least drop after a short while... but the prices I've seen on Blu-ray for many older (but still more recent from the past 20-30 years) movies that are not in any kind of high demand, has still been borderline highway robbery for no more than what one might be receiving considering the marketing ploy aspect! It's just a gimmick now that is already way past its due date, so why keep enabling it? In this economy, more needs to be demanded of it at this point. My PS3 is much more than a video game system. It is a complete entertainment system. I can stream Netflix media. I can play DVD and Blu-Ray disks. With a simple download on my PC, I setup a media server which streams all my media on my PC to my TV. I can watch all my videos on my large screen through the PS3 media server, I can listen to all my digital audio through my home theater system via the media server, I can watch youtube videos and so much more. Granted, it doesn't have the arcade factor in the video games (and I'm not much of a gamer anyway), but my newest computer I just bought (not that long ago) can do all of this and I didn't pay much more than the cost of a PS3! I wanted a PS3 for the longest time and waited to see if the price would come down to a more realistic level (as has always historically happened with video game systems and electronics in general)... but as I stated above, Sony was too d*mn proud of it and wouldn't drop the price, so I finally said to H*LL with them and updated my computer! (Yes I know, still paid for it, but at least Sony didn't get my money for older technology, as my computer is certainly newer than their PS3!) Now I hear their next-generation system is not that far around the corner and they still haven't dropped the price very much in comparison to historical trends and how long has the PS3 been out now??? Whats the next-gen gonna cost everyone? I'm done with video game systems being like a brand new car and the value drops by half the moment I walk out of the store with it and it doesn't update forever and a day! I certainly wouldn't recoup it if I left it sealed in the box and took it to the myriad of used video game stores that have cropped up... and even then, the "used" prices are no bargain like they used to be with older systems after just a few short years of being out! Sorry, I'm just tired of getting raped on the game systems that keep going up and up, whereas every computer I've bought new has been cheaper and cheaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
g0_command0 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 im quite sure ps4 has not been announced. so you still have some good time left Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I still remember the days when DVD was considered so much better than VHS. I'll give you that, but at the same time... it starts to get to the point where "do we really, really need it?" I've already bought and watched several Blu-ray's and am really not that much more impressed over standard DVD. I think I'm finally at overload and not really going to be too impressed until movies get to the point of VR and I'm "IN" the movie! :lol: BTW - the new 3D thing is not doing it for me either. I'm not much for the 3D fad either ...Gives me headaches ... I stand corrected... but for not much more real appreciable improvement really, why is the price staying so high instead of coming down? DVD's both new and used are at least more affordable than anything I've seen available on Blu-ray, unless it was something fairly old that nobody really wants and is probably something that is probably not going to benefit and is just a "marketing" ploy. I think this was the point my friends were trying to make. Doesn't seem that DVD was out for too long before it started becoming competitive and the prices quickly dropped... but not seeing the same thing with Blu-ray... at least certainly not that I've noticed. Also, even though their initial release price might be high at first on new releases, DVD's at least drop after a short while... but the prices I've seen on Blu-ray for many older (but still more recent from the past 20-30 years) movies that are not in any kind of high demand, has still been borderline highway robbery for no more than what one might be receiving considering the marketing ploy aspect! It's just a gimmick now that is already way past its due date, so why keep enabling it? In this economy, more needs to be demanded of it at this point. Walmart has Blu-ray movies for under $20.00 all the time ... Most new releases come out at $25.00 ... Granted, it doesn't have the arcade factor in the video games (and I'm not much of a gamer anyway), but my newest computer I just bought (not that long ago) can do all of this and I didn't pay much more than the cost of a PS3! I wanted a PS3 for the longest time and waited to see if the price would come down to a more realistic level (as has always historically happened with video game systems and electronics in general)... but as I stated above, Sony was too d*mn proud of it and wouldn't drop the price, so I finally said to H*LL with them and updated my computer! (Yes I know, still paid for it, but at least Sony didn't get my money for older technology, as my computer is certainly newer than their PS3!) Now I hear their next-generation system is not that far around the corner and they still haven't dropped the price very much in comparison to historical trends and how long has the PS3 been out now??? Whats the next-gen gonna cost everyone? I'm done with video game systems being like a brand new car and the value drops by half the moment I walk out of the store with it and it doesn't update forever and a day! I certainly wouldn't recoup it if I left it sealed in the box and took it to the myriad of used video game stores that have cropped up... and even then, the "used" prices are no bargain like they used to be with older systems after just a few short years of being out! Sorry, I'm just tired of getting raped on the game systems that keep going up and up, whereas every computer I've bought new has been cheaper and cheaper. Well, PS3 is now about half the price it was when it came out in 2006 ... How much can you recoup on an old, used computer after having it for about 5 years ? Not much either ... im quite sure ps4 has not been announced. so you still have some good time left Yeah, PS4 won't be on store shelves for another two years ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J.C. Bahr Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Walmart has Blu-ray movies for under $20.00 all the time ... Most new releases come out at $25.00 ... Yeah, I don't do Walmart unless I absolutely have to. What little I would save is not worth the hassle of shopping there. BTW - isn't that price usually just on the bare-bones movie without being a special edition with extra content/features? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I still remember the days when DVD was considered so much better than VHS. I'll give you that, but at the same time... it starts to get to the point where "do we really, really need it?" I've already bought and watched several Blu-ray's and am really not that much more impressed over standard DVD. I think I'm finally at overload and not really going to be too impressed until movies get to the point of VR and I'm "IN" the movie! :lol: BTW - the new 3D thing is not doing it for me either. VHS to DVD at least had other benefits beyond video quality. DVD is more compact for storage, it is somewhat more durable, it is much easier to search, no rewind etc. Blu-ray doesn't really have any of that, so if you are one of those who doesn't see a noticable difference they really have nothing but unique special features to offer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PetarB Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I love playing BluRays on my PS3. If the original film was done hires, or if it's an animated movie, usually they look amazing. What I do not like: 1) Region Protected Disks - I purchase movies from the US through Amazon that are not available in Australia - Region protection on DVDs is illegal in Australia - Sony gets around this by saying that the PS3 is not a DVD player, it's a games console, so it does not have to disable region protection on the device. So as a result I have to have an extra DVD player to view my entire collection of overseas disks. Haven't even tried an OS Bluray yet... 2) Updates that remove PS3 functionality - GeoHot had something to say on the matter, and so did the hackers who brought down Sony's online environment. While I disagree with their methods, I sympathise with the cause. 3) Price - I think it's overpriced. I would have like to have purchased a PS3 with all the functionality but without the games system. I've only played a few games on the PS3 (Metal Gear Solid, Little Big Planet, etc) but I use it for other capabilities like watching iView, streaming MP3s, etc a lot more. Weird idea I know, but Sony should have sold a revised product and I think they would have had a viable entertainment console without the games. Edited June 20, 2011 by PetarB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J.C. Bahr Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 VHS to DVD at least had other benefits beyond video quality. DVD is more compact for storage, it is somewhat more durable, it is much easier to search, no rewind etc. Blu-ray has all that, but it's certainly not new! Like I was saying, not THAT big of an improvement as far as return on dollar value really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yeah, I don't do Walmart unless I absolutely have to. What little I would save is not worth the hassle of shopping there. BTW - isn't that price usually just on the bare-bones movie without being a special edition with extra content/features? Okay, then shop on Amazon or Target or whatever, they have pretty much the same deals ... And the $25.00 price point is pretty much the deluxe release, like I bought "TRON: Legacy" and that included the bonus material and DVD disc, I think on Amazon, it's $18.00 now ... They usually have the 3D release for about $10.00 more and "Collector's Editions" for as much as $100.00 depending on the movie(s) and what that set includes ... The main thing I want is the movie ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Iron Man Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 My wife and I are looking in to get a blue ray player for Christmas and sounds like to me that PS3 is the best. Now I'm not a gamer but I also do not have a problem using it as a home theater system. I might buy a few educational games for my son but thats it. I too am not much for the interactive stuff bit I do like watching the special features and outtakes etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyc5usaf Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) depends on the movie and the studio releasing it, for instance when the movie Gladiator was first released to bluray it was atrocious video quality to say the least, so Paramount went back after releasing that steaming pile of dog poo and remastered it yet again. I have some old ones that look great and others not so much. Regarding your problems with playing the disk, I have 2 bluray players, sam sung. that doubles as my surround sound receiver and a ps3. The sam sung blows dead bears compared to the PS3, some movies (terminator 2 off the top of my head) wont even play in the thing, others skip and freeze(no scratches that I saw) PS3 on the other hand, never a single problem. Edited June 24, 2011 by mikeyc5usaf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hate to tell you this, but it's only going to get worse. If you are not using your HDMI output on your BluRay player, you're about to lose image quality. Not sure of the date, but part of the "upgrades" that are being done to the player is a count down clock that will degrade any output on the player other than the HDMI. This is all a Hollywood lawyer deal with the motion picture industry, the courts and manufacturers of players to crack down on pirating of movies. And that long boot up time is the ever changing HDCP compliance "handshake" that each and every device connected via HDMI cables have to make with each other. We are constantly having issues with this HDCP compliance issue with classroom technology since computers and laptops are now going to HDMI video out connections. Some still come with the old standard VGA connection, but again, pop a BluRay in the laptop and try using VGA after the sunset date, and you might as well be using a VHS tape. We even looked into one of the "handshake" boxes you can get off eBay, but the box comes dumbed down and then you have to load the software via a download. Proof that they are pulling off a stunt that will lead to a knock on your door by an attorney from the Motion Picture Industry as they are now with the music industry. So instead of us spending $50 to keep classrooms running by combining old technology to the new technology, we're having to spend upwards of $30,000 to refit each classrooms electronics just so the lawyers don't accuse a major university of pirating movies and suing us. And who is footing the bill for these upgrades? Taxpayers and students. ......Thanks, Motion Picture Industry! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Oh, and another bit of trivia for you. The PS3 was not invented as a gaming console. It's original intent is to be used as a digital signage player. It never really made it that far in the states, but used as this In Europe everywhere. An engineer at Sony got a wild idea to use the box as a gaming console and modified one of the digital signage boxes and the rest is history. Sony did at least redesign the case so people would not start stealing the boxes to use as a gaming box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
do335b6 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have a nice Blu-Ray player with updated firmware, etc. Like most other families, we enjoy movie nights on the weekends. Blu-Ray picture resolution is fabulous, but I have noticed some other issues that knock it down a peg. The biggest issue is just basic reliability. Sometimes, they just won't play, despite having the latest firmware. Firmware itself is an issue. Can they not come up with a standard for this format and be done with it? I just want to watch a movie, for goodness sakes. I don't need enhanced interactive features that require you to be on-line with your Blu-Ray player, hooking up your computer to the TV, etc. Another aspect of reliability is it seems that Blu-Rays are temperamental and will not tolerate even the slightest scratches. About every other rental Blu-Ray that comes into our home will get to a certain point in the movie and freeze. Usually it will stay stuck there. Sometimes it will try to skip ahead to the next undamaged area on the disc, but more often than not, you are done. You can't manually skip ahead either when frozen, at least not on my machine. So when a rental Blu-Ray comes into my house, we hold our breath and wonder if we will make it through it. It takes away from the experience a little. Last night we watched Team America for the first time in about five years (released 2004). It was an old rental DVD which had been kicking around the local BB shop for years. It had probably been played hundreds of time, and was really beat up....just full of scratches. I popped it in my Blu-Ray player and it played without a hitch. Another Blu-Ray issue I have heard about is inconsistent transfer quality, both with video and audio. I like a lot of old movies. Some look and sound magnificent on Blu-Ray and some don't. Sometimes it depends on your source material. I'll give you some examples of the mixed success of Blu-Ray transfer with some classic films: Example #1 - The original Godzilla from 1954. It was re-released in 2010 with the never before released Japanese "Gojira" version, packaged with the Americanized Raymond Burr version. It could be purchased in DVD or Blu-Ray format. However, this film was never intended to be viewed in Hi-Def. The original film was apparently not restored. Reviews state that because of the Hi-Def, you can see every scratch, speck, and grain. So, in this case, given the quality of the source material, the film is over resolved when viewed in Hi-Def. I purchased the DVD version, which is fine. Example #2 - The Final Countdown. Being a VS-24/CVW-8/Nimitz guy, I am obviously going to be a big fan of this movie. I have this on DVD from a few years back. Recently, I heard about the Blu-Ray release and read up on it. Reviewers are saying the picture is magnificant, but the audio is not as good as on the DVD issued previously. Example #3 - 2001:A Space Odyssey. Whether you like this movie or not, you have to give it props for its originality, visionary direction, and just pure beauty. The Blu-Ray version of this film is spectacular. It was originally shot on 70mm film in order to obtain the best picture possible in theaters. 70mm is the same size film as IMAX. Most movies are shot on 35mm film. So you can imagine what a 70mm film is like shown in Hi-Def. The only knock on the Blu-Ray version of 2001 is in the opening sequence involving the ape-men. You can tell the sequence was filmed on a sound stage because you can actually see the texture of the large matte painting they used as a backdrop for the set. However, once you get out into space, it is a visual treat. My point here is that although Blu-Ray is beautiful, it is not everything for everyone. Old movies and TV shows from the 50's and 60's don't always look better in Hi-Def. That starship console that looked good on TV, and looked great in DVD, now has obvious wood grain on it when show in Blu-Ray Hi-Def. So if it is old, it might be better to stick with DVD. If you are renting a character driven drama or romantic comedy, and it doesn't have grand vista special effects, Blu-Ray is not going to make much of a visual difference, and it may freeze on you. Sometimes DVD is the safer choice. Blu Ray is the first option I've seen that has picture quality as good as or better than my aging Laser Disc collection, now if they would just release a Blu ray of Right Stuff from the original 70mm I would be happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Laser disk! That's a blast from the past. I had a friend with extra income who had one of those. My favorite was the classic Star Wars Trilogy as this was before the controversial Special Additions ( Han Shoots first!). IIRC, the quality of these was steps beyond VHS but we were limited by old TV resolution technology of the mid-late 90s for the actual viewing experience. Thus, I don't know what they look like on today's much nicer High-Def TVs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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