Otto Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Instead of using aftermarket repro drawings they should have used factory line drawings. They would have been better off. Can you see how silly the ones on top look? That is what they look like on the kit. You can measure the engine in the kit and see what I mean. It would be impossible to fit in an aftermarket R-2800 into those cowlings. Edited January 16, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rick in Maine Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Drat! Rats! Phooey! Darn! :lol: So much for my quick build of an Alaskan Warrior. In 12+ pages of posts, it seems my work on this kit has gone from "shake and bake" to a little extra work. It appears I have here a great model with superb fit that I want to add/correct: 1) better props (in transit from LSM), 2) better decals that are not half-tone screen, 3) maybe new wheels (still debating whether to live with that one), 4) new nacelles, 5) the inevitable photo-etch for some areas inside and out (d***, I'm addicted to that stuff!) 6) possibility of new paint matches for interior. I think I'm willing to do the rest of the model as it comes out of the box. I'm telling you guys, that big Tamiya Spit 9 spoiled me bad. Cheers Rick in Maine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I scanned the colors of the interior in the photos and made paint chips for each area. I placed the chips close to the area measured. Most of the areas scanned have close to the same hue as ANA 611 Interior Green. The interior green could have been mixed with about 80% black to get a darker shade as seen in the photo. The paint chip for ANA 611 has been mixed with 80% black, and is a close match to the interior for comparison. I also included QMS 9 Bronze Green for comparison. I scanned the nose and wing areas in the photo and got close to the same hue for ANA 611 interior green. The ANA 611 chip in this photo was made progressively darker by adding 20% black for each progression for comparison. Age, wear, fading, weathering, and lighting all have an effect on the scanned colors. Dave Edited January 17, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The speed rings and cowl flap diameters and shape are proper on the Koster kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KSL Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It would be impossible to fit in an aftermarket R-2800 into those cowlings. Vector's R-2800 fits into kit's cowlings: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1326026904 And, as far as I know, it's biggest 1/48 aftermarket R-2800 (diameter about 26.3 mm) Quickboost some millimeters smaller. BTW Vector released corrected propellers, and crankcases with correct magneto and distributors: Sergey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Here is a photo of my PV-1 with the interior painted ANA 611, with a little weathering added. With the glass in place, and the shades drawn, very little will be visible. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Vector's R-2800 fits into kit's cowlings: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1326026904 And, as far as I know, it's biggest 1/48 aftermarket R-2800 (diameter about 26.3 mm) Quickboost some millimeters smaller. BTW Vector released corrected propellers, and crankcases with correct magneto and distributors: Sergey. The problem is that a R-2800 in 1:48 scale should be 1.11" 28.1mm, and the shape of the cowling is completely wrong. I will be using a set of cowlings from an AMT A-20 to fix the problem. They are virtually perfect in size and MUCH closer in shape. I will just cut the scoops and blisters from the Revell cowls and put them on the AMT cowls. I have the Verlinden R-2800s and they are perfect in size but you would have to cut the rockers off to fit them in. Edited January 16, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KSL Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The problem is that a R-2800 in 1:48 scale should be 1.11" 28.1mm :) Such engine (28.1mm) will not fit ANY cowl, as thickness of the plastic wall usually about 1mm ;). Can't say anything about shape of the cowl till I have the kit. Sergey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) :) Such engine (28.1mm) will not fit ANY cowl, as thickness of the plastic wall usually about 1mm ;). Can't say anything about shape of the cowl till I have the kit. Sergey. It is a mute point, since I can not afford your products anyway. The price is much too hi for my wallet. Verlinden two complete engines are available for $11 and props are for $6 from Loan Star or "Obscureco". I would have to order out of the country. ONE of your engines is $15 plus post from the UK plus the price of your props which I don't even know how much they would be. You have very nice stuff and there are items I would like to buy but just don't want to spend that much money. Edited January 16, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Install the windows and upper turret after final painting of the Ventura. The fuselage can be assemble without installing the bomb bay top. Glue the front and rear sections of the bomb bay, and the wing spar, to only one side of the fuselage. The top of the bomb bay can be slipped in after the windows are installed. Remove the ring around the top turret, this will let you install the turret from the top after painting. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Shape of kit cowls. Kit silly looking cowl on right and my new cowl on the left. I still need to do some line filling and re-scribing but the shape is 1000% better than the silly looking kit cone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thanks for posting your work David, it will come in handy, as will the Vector props etc. Cheers Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just FYI, I just made arrangements with "Obscureco" http://obscureco.com/products.html to supply them my master for the cowlings. They will produce them for us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A radius was made on the leading edge of the nacelles, and the trailing edge of the cowl flaps were thinned down to give the area a better appearance. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have found that on the ground the cowl flaps were almost always open. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunce Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Otto, I'm not saying your wrong (or right), but you are the only one I've seen mention a problem with the cowls. Other than "the R-2800 won't fit in the cowls" issue, what have you used to determine there's an issue with the cowls? I don't have the kit nor have I inspected one IRL, so I don't know what the kit cowls look like. How do you know Revell used the "silly" drawings you posted above? Also, your "new" cowl is just the AMT A-20 cowling? Are they really identical cowls other than the necessary scoops that would have to be added/removed? Edited January 17, 2012 by blunce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I work on the real PV-2 which has virtually the same cowls, so I know what they look like. Many of the line drawings I have seen show the conical cowls. Once you have the kit, you will notice how ridiculous the kit cowls look. They taper in sharply right from the cowl flaps. The cowls should actually bulge out slightly from the cowl flaps forward. This could have been done in the kit the way the cowls were molded but will not be possible in a resin cowl unless I split it down the middle which I am not going to do. The AMT A-20 cowls are not right out of the kit. They do have to be modified some. The shape is not exact but MUCH closer than the PV-1 kit cowls. I am re-shaping mine a bit. Edited January 18, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Here are some pictures of the cowling with the back row of a Verlinden engine. The engine is right on the money in size. You will see that the first pictures have the engine row sandwiched between the speedring and the last two the engine is under the base. As you will notice the base of the engine is pretty much correct in size. That dimension is not worth squabbling about but forward of the firewall that is where everything goes wacky. Not to mention the shape of the speedring, which is completely wacky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunce Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok, I'm convinced. Thanks Otto! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Here is the progress on the new cowling master. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Otto, I hope that's not the engine you intend to use. The Ventura had P&W R-2800s. 9 cylinders per bank, not 7 as illustrated here. Cowlings look terrific Hal Sr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 That is a Write 2600 for my A-20 (BD-2)project. The 2600 and 2800 were only 1" different in diameter. I just happened to have the 2600 handy because I am working on the cowlings using the A-20 cowl as a baseline. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KSL Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) That is a Write 2600 for my A-20 (BD-2)project. The 2600 and 2800 were only 1" different in diameter. 1mm larger in 48-th, if this engine made exactly in scale it will be larger than external diameter of the cowl, and BTW P-61 flaps you're using doesn't look correct for Ventura. Sergey. Edited January 18, 2012 by KSL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) 1mm larger in 48-th, if this engine made exactly in scale it will be larger than external diameter of the cowl, and BTW P-61 flaps you're using doesn't look correct for Ventura. Sergey. 1"/48=.02"=.5mm dia. not 1mm. The cowling is actually attached to baffles on the cylinder brackets. The cowling wouldn't even touch this engine in full scale though it would be close. we have a B-25 on our field that has the 2600. Without a laser measurement you couldn't tell the difference between the two cowling sizes. I just used the 2600 model to prove a point of taper in the model cowl taper, if you did not understand my point, nothing more. The P-61 cowl flaps are the same size and will have the same count as on the kit flaps. On the kit the flaps are shown in overlap because they are closed. Besides the cowl flaps are for my project only resin cowls will mount on the kit cowl flaps. If you want to see what REAL cowl flaps look like on a Ventura here they are. Edited January 18, 2012 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Just out of curiosity what is the correct EXTERIOR diameter of the Ventura cowling and is the kit cowling the correct exterior diameter? I would have expected that the kit designer would have been centered on getting the exterior dimensions correct and then reduce the interior components the apropriate amount to allow for the thickness of the plastic. Would this not account for the reason the engine may be smaller than the published actual size? Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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