Any true NMF P-51Ds?

[konbini]

I've been hearing that P-51Ds usually get a coating of primer, and another coating over it of silver paint. Are there P-51Ds that are actually bare metal - would be interesting to have a chromish P-51D all nice and shiny.

[Ham]

You may have already read this pinned thread. clicky In a nutshell, wings primed and painted, other surfaces natural metal, some flight controls doped fabric.

The only chrome shiny overall natural metal P-51D's are some of the warbirds.

[Modelmkr]

You may have already read this pinned thread. clicky In a nutshell, wings primed and painted, other surfaces natural metal, some flight controls doped fabric.

The only chrome shiny overall natural metal P-51D's are some of the warbirds.

Agreed. If you want a shiny chrome looking Mustang, pick a modern warbird restoration and model that subject, they are indeed sparkly. Keep in mind that even these typically have metal (usually Dupont duraluminum?) painted wings.

[bigjugs]

It was not that the wings were just primed and painted. The wings received a coating of a putty that was smoothed and sanded, and the panel joins were filled and smoothed. Then the wing was painted in camouflage or aluminum paint on un-camouflaged aircraft.

[konbini]

wow thanks! What are some modern subjects that are still up and flying?

[Modelmkr]

wow thanks! What are some modern subjects that are still up and flying?

Link or Link

30 seconds on Google.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Modelmkr

[f4u4 nut]

WarEagles Air Museum in Santa Teresa,NM has a P-51 in BMF. It wings were recovered in a more modern aluminum.Fuselage is still in original aluminum. This airframe is not polished. Dane

[Jennings]

The ailerons on P-51Ds were always metal, not fabric, and were left unpainted. IIRC most had fabric elevators and rudders, but I seem to recall late build a/c had metal elevators as well. The fabric would of course be silver dope, but the metal surfaces were left unpainted.

[B-17 guy]

Here's my thing, the reason that some of the warbirds are shiny chrome, is because they are not on an active, combat flight line. There is plenty of time to take care of that one aircraft, compared to two dozen (pulled that number out of the air) getting fueled up, re-armed and ready to go kill other airplanes. Anyone of those combat planes "could" be pulled off the active line, or even the war wary ones, and been polished up nice and pretty. So to say only warbirds should be modeled nice and shiny seems pretty silly. Who are you to say that at some point, one that was in for repairs, wasnt shined up nice because one of the big-wig generals or some dignateries were there, and the base/squadron/group commander wanted thing to look good? Plus, mustangs were used very extensivley, in not one but two wars, and that's just by the US. Some young pilot might have taken the time to polish his plane up treating it like his car back home. I was'nt there, so I cannot say one way or the other.

[Jennings]

If it had happened during wartime, there would very likely be photographs of it. Especially so because it would have been so unusual, every guy with his Kodak Brownie would have been photographing it because it stood out like a sore thumb. But you don't see those photos. And those guys were flying all the time, and dog tired, and just itching to get their missions in so they could go home. Not saying there wasn't or couldn't have been a shined up Mustang that shone like the chrome on a new '59 Chevy bumper, I'm just saying it's not very likely, and we have no evidence of it.

[bigjugs]

Wing finish from Building the P-51 Mustang by Michael O'Leary

At page 103:

"The first 40% of the wing was shot with zinc chromate primer. This was followed by enough coats of Acme Gray Surfacer No. 53N5 to cover all irregularities. Skin butt joints were then filled with Acme Red Vellunite glazing putty No. 58485. The entire surface was then sanded down and sprayed with one coat of camouflage enamel. When camouflage was deleted, the forward portion of the wing (and sometimes the entire wing) was sprayed with aluminum."

[Jennings]

"When camouflage was deleted, the forward portion of the wing (and sometimes the entire wing) was sprayed with aluminum."

I've never seen a single photo of a NMF Mustang with a wing that was anything other than completely sprayed with aluminum, excepting the pieces called out in the instructions (ailerons, ammo doors, fuel tank access panel on the bottom, etc). The entire structural part of the wing was (as far as I can determine) always completely painted silver.

[tourist]

It all depends on what Mustangs you guys are talking about.

All P-51D's left the factory NMF with aluminum painted wings but early B/C's and the Allisons were camouflaged at the factory.

[Hal Marshman Sr]

I got in trouble on another forum stating this, but look at the pictures. Once in combat, many P-51s were brought down to NMF, and the filler putty dispensed with as unecessary and difficult to maintain. Don't bother arguing with me, just look at the pics. yes, you will see many with the silver paint intact, but you'll see just as many with natural aluminum. In my opinion, it's always best to try and find a photo of the bird you're trying to duplicate. For 8th AF, the site "Little Friends" can be of great value. Hal Sr

[tourist]

Don't bother arguing with me...

OK, you're wrong!

[redwoodmodels]

Squadron P-51 Mustang In Action Aircraft No. 45, the old version published in 1981, has a picture of the assembly line on page 39 showing that the wings were grey primer painted, the rudder was doped fabric, and everything else was natural aluminum, including the fuselage, flaps, ailerons, metal covered elevators, and the rest of the tail.

The only wing panel lines visible in that picture are the gun/ammo panels.

Here's my thing, the reason that some of the warbirds are shiny chrome, is because they are not on an active, combat flight line. There is plenty of time to take care of that one aircraft, compared to two dozen (pulled that number out of the air) getting fueled up, re-armed and ready to go kill other airplanes. Anyone of those combat planes "could" be pulled off the active line, or even the war wary ones, and been polished up nice and pretty. So to say only warbirds should be modeled nice and shiny seems pretty silly. Who are you to say that at some point, one that was in for repairs, wasnt shined up nice because one of the big-wig generals or some dignateries were there, and the base/squadron/group commander wanted thing to look good? Plus, mustangs were used very extensivley, in not one but two wars, and that's just by the US. Some young pilot might have taken the time to polish his plane up treating it like his car back home. I was'nt there, so I cannot say one way or the other.

I think some of the ANG ones were, though I can't find a picture of one right now. So if he wants shiny and military, that might be a good way to go.

Edited July 26, 2011 by redwoodmodels

[redwoodmodels]

That same assembly line picture is also in Sovereign Series Mustang, by Stewart Wilson on page 24.

Edited July 26, 2011 by redwoodmodels

[Grey Ghost 531]

OK, you're wrong!

I have definitely read first hand accounts of Mustang wings being striped to bare metal without refilling panel lines and repainting. I can't remember where, so you'll have to call me wrong too.

Never say never.

[tourist]

Between reading an account and claiming that "many" Mustangs had stripped wings during WWII there's a difference.

The fact remains that unlike during the Korean war this was extremely rare during WWII, it was exceptional.

Poor photo analysis and unfounded myths reported on modeling forums should not be confused with facts.

[Hal Marshman Sr]

As I said Tourist, "Look at the pictures" and make up your own mind. Giving me a quick retort might be cute, but proves nothing. Open your eyes and mind. You ever been around an actual WWII Mustang? I actually sat in one in 1948, that's how I know the truth of another "urban myth" The floor of the bird was indeed wood, but had a black non skid surface applied to it, it was not a furniture finished beautiful wood grained slab, as we're seeing on so many models these days. (I have heard that such nicely varnished floors do exist in current flying restorations) FYI, I'm not a spring chicken, but have been studying WWII and associated military aviation ever since the actual events that occurred in my childhood. I have a pretty decent library pertaining to these matters, and know how to use GOOGLE. I had subscriptions to Air Classics, Wings, Air Power, Scale Modeler, and Fin Scale Modeler for years. (Wanna buy Scale modeler, Vol 1, issue 1?) Do you think a person pulls this stuff out of thin air just to screw up the works? When someone comes along and says something contrary to current belief, a wise person doesn't just dismiss it out of hand, but digs further into it to see if there's any merit to what's been alleged. Hal Sr.

[tourist]

I am not trying to dismiss you or your arguments but when you write "don't bother arguing with me..." you invite a dismissive answer, sarcasm at the very least.

Now, if we are indeed talking about the Mustang's wing finish during WWII and your claim is that they were commonly stripped then your photo analysis is flawed, 99% show a puttied and painted wing.

The fact that the putty sank and some of the details sometimes show through accentuated by dirt doesn't mean the wings were stripped.

Please show me a picture showing a fully stripped wing during WWII and tell me why you think this was common pace.

I have examined thousands of period picture, they show you are wrong.

The documented NAA policy regarding the wing finish and anecdotal evidence reported by crews confirm it.

[Jennings]

I've never seen any *real* evidence that that's true. I've been hearing that "fact" bandied around for like 30 years. Sure, you can find all kinds of photos, but what are you *really* looking at? A stripped wing, or a dirty wing? The trouble it would take to strip several coats of paint *plus* a whole bunch of putty seems very, very highly unlikely to have been taken in the hectic pace of combat in 1944/45. And to what end?

There is no right or wrong in this argument (and thus, no real argument). It's about 99.999% sure to be something that will be impossible to prove or disprove 67 years after the fact.

Bottom line: if you want to build your Mustang with a bare metal wing, then go right ahead. If you don't, then don't. It's just that simple.

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Tourist, I'm not going to get into a flame war with you. I know what I know, I think what I think, and I've seen what I've seen. I have also read anecdotal reports from ground crews supporting what I've said. You are free to believe what you will, it makes no difference to me. Hal Sr

[tourist]

Fair enough Hal.

Still I would have like to see the pictures you claim show stripped wings... oh well...

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Here you go, Tourist, and in color yet. Found on little friends. Lots of P-51 pics at that site, although most are of little use proving this point, due to the angle from which they were taken.. There was also a color pic of Kit Carson's Nooky Booky IV, but it was a close up, and didn't show the rudder. This one is great because it shows the silver painted rudder to contrast with the NMF wing surface. To be fair, there are a goodly amount of pics that also show the painted wing surface, and I've never said that all planes had the paint removed.