The struggle of the local hobby shop

[thegoodsgt]

I'm very interested in how hobby shops survive, or don't. They struggle to survive in competition with the online retailers, but I'm not sure that the common assumptions we make about why hobby shops fail are true. Here are a few things that I'm curious about.

Sales

The big online retailers have sales every once in a while. They offer monthly or weekly discounts on selected kits, and they sometimes offer 10, 15, 25 percent off your entire purchase. These sales often motivate customers to buy something they might not have purchased otherwise, or at least at this moment.

Why don't local hobby shops do this? It seems to me that if I'm the owner of the LHS and advertised an impromptu sale at my shop, my customers might make a special trip to buy a few things. They might come for a discounted Hasegawa P-51 but leave with a book and paint. That could be several hundred dollars in my pocket that wouldn't have been there without the sale.

The thing could be said about offering an across-the-board discount on all kits. Isn't it better to actually sell kits at a 10 percent discount than to not sell any at all?

Unsold merch

I regularly see the same kits on the shelves of the LHS month after month after month. And year after year. Why don't the owners put some of those kits on sale? Sure, he won't make as much money as he would otherwise, but it's money in the pocket. Isn't it better to make, for example, $20 on a model rather than wait indefinitely to make $40 on it? Is there some tax benefit to having unsold merchandise?

Overhead

I typically read the argument that the online retailers don't have the overhead that the LHS does. Is that really true? My LHS typically has one employee on duty at any given point in time, I assume earning minimum wage. There might be two employees on Saturdays and Sundays. The online shops employ many more than that. As for rent, the LHS is relatively small whereas the online shops are large warehouses. (Granted, retail space is rented at a premium.) Heat, A/C, and electricity must flow to the LHS 8 hours a day, as they do for the warehouses.

At the end of the day, it seems that the online retailers survive simply thanks to volume. They're able to sell to hundreds of customers around the country whereas the LHS is selling to the small number of hobbyists within maybe a 50 mile radius.

Help us understand the dilemma of the LHS. I know we'd all like them to survive.

(If you work at an LHS or online shop, feel free to respond privately. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Your comments will be held in the strictest confidence.)

Edited August 23, 2011 by thegoodsgt

[spejic]

It seems to me that if I'm the owner of the LHS and advertised an impromptu sale at my shop, my customers might make a special trip to buy a few things.

It's harder to tell customers there is a sale in the real world. You need to do advertising instead of just making a few changes to a web site. And online sellers have the email address of every customer - stores don't.

I regularly see the same kits on the shelves of the LHS month after month after month. And year after year. Why don't the owners put some of those kits on sale?

It doesn't matter what a online store's warehouse looks like. You never see it. On the other hand, there is nothing sadder than a retail store with little merchandise in it. You have to have stuff in there, even if not all of it sells, just to get people inside to buy the stuff that does sell.

[FlyingSnowmew]

Models have an elastic demand. A small change in price can have a big change on whether or not it sells. Most hobby shop owners don't seem to know this and they keep their prices constant.

It also doesn't help that they usually are charged high prices by their distributors [no names mentioned] and have to increase the price from that to make a profit.

[smithery]

I'm no expert, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

All joking aside, the LHS's survive because there's a large portion of the population who like to browse for a while, see stuff sitting on shelves, fondle boxes, talk to staff and other patrons, etc. You can't do that online. There's also the impulse buy.....guy walks in, sees something on the shelf and has a "gotta have" moment......can't do that online either. There's also quite a few folks that run out of something on the weekend or during the evening, get visited by the Irish/German brothers (the O`Schitz), and head to the store to get a replacement. While they`re there, some end of picking up something else (see comment about impulse buys)......can`t do that online either.

As for why sales don`t happen that often, spejic made a good point re advertising. And as much as the stores don`t like product sitting on the shelf for long, there`s a customer out there looking for every kit on the shelf. They just have to find their way to the store.

Comments above are loosely based on working in the LHS for about two years.

[JasonW]

I'm very interested in how hobby shops survive, or don't. They struggle to survive in competition with the online retailers, but I'm not sure that the common assumptions we make about why hobby shops fail are true. Here are a few things that I'm curious about.

Let me start by saying that I work part time at a local shop and have for about 12-13 years now.

Sales

The big online retailers have sales every once in a while. They offer monthly or weekly discounts on selected kits, and they sometimes offer 10, 15, 25 percent off your entire purchase. These sales often motivate customers to buy something they might not have purchased otherwise, or at least at this moment.

Why don't local hobby shops do this? It seems to me that if I'm the owner of the LHS and advertised an impromptu sale at my shop, my customers might make a special trip to buy a few things. They might come for a discounted Hasegawa P-51 but leave with a book and paint. That could be several hundred dollars in my pocket that wouldn't have been there without the sale.

The thing could be said about offering an across-the-board discount on all kits. Isn't it better to actually sell kits at a 10 percent discount than to not sell any at all?

The shop that I work at regularly has three or four sales a year. The big ones are the anniversary sale and the tax season sale where we offer 30-35% off of all normally priced (not already discounted) merchandise. The other really good local shop I frequent also regularly offers sales AND offers anybody who signs up for their newsletter a one time 35% discount for your birthday yearly. The shop I work at also runs a little sale during the MA tax break weekend, we typically do decent business that weekend. Both shops have been in business over 35 years now. We also offer a discount to local IPMS and train club members as long as you show a card and we offer a discount card program where you pay $10 and get a 10% additional discount off of all your purchases for a year.

Unsold merch

I regularly see the same kits on the shelves of the LHS month after month after month. And year after year. Why don't the owners put some of those kits on sale? Sure, he won't make as much money as he would otherwise, but it's money in the pocket. Isn't it better to make, for example, $20 on a model rather than wait indefinitely to make $40 on it? Is there some tax benefit to having unsold merchandise?

We have a 50% off shelf where a lot of the types of kits you mentioned end up if they don't sell after a while. The other shop I frequent typically marks a lot of kits down as well. The longer it has been on the shelf, the lower the mark down. I've bought stuff in there at 50% off over the years.

Overhead

I typically read the argument that the online retailers don't have the overhead that the LHS does. Is that really true? My LHS typically has one employee on duty at any given point in time, I assume earning minimum wage. There might be two employees on Saturdays and Sundays. The online shops employ many more than that. As for rent, the LHS is relatively small whereas the online shops are large warehouses. (Granted, retail space is rented at a premium.) Heat, A/C, and electricity must flow to the LHS 8 hours a day, as they do for the warehouses.

We typically have two guys at the shop during most weekdays. On Friday night, Saturdays and Sundays we have three. Usually we have a car model/slot model guy, a military model guy and a train guy on the three person shift. This works well as we are typically able to deal with just about any question and it gives us a guy for the register, a guy to man the back (train) counter and a guy to walk the floor and answer questions or help folks. We are on Facebook, Twitter and are active with local clubs. We have yet to convince the owner to get a website but we're trying.

The key to the shop's survival so far in my opinion is the diversification of the stuff we sell. We sell model kits and supplies, trains and layout supplies/accessories, slot cars and accessories, puzzles, chemistry and school project type stuff, books and magazines, Estes rockets and supplies and a limited amount of crafts stuff. We have some RC stuff, but no cars and it is very limited.

It certainly doesn't hurt being in a heavily populated area and a high traffic retail area to boot. If we could get him to get a website, and start selling stuff online I'm sure business would increase by at least 10-15%.

Edited August 23, 2011 by JasonW

[pastafarian]

My LHS has actually expanded a bit last year (or the year before, I don't remember). There was a smaller shop that was closed next door so they expanded into it.

They mainly do RC planes and cars but have a decent kit selection. I go there for all glues, paints, and styrene stock. I don't buy too many kits, but when I buy a new kit I try to see if he can order it for me. After shipping, he's about the same price as Squadron. The way I figure it, even if I pay a smidge more for a kit there, I'm paying for the ability to run down the road for supplies.

The big thing that they do is that if you buy an RC plane from them, the owner will take you out and teach you to fly it. I've actually gone back and forth on buying a plane because of that. I'd never buy a plane without something like that (or a friend to help teach me) because I'd crash that joker on the first flight! LOL They also offer repair services on RC stuff (I know they'll fix RC cars and trucks). Those two things, especially the flying lessons, are something that you'll never be able to get from an online shop.

John

[Aaronw]

Anyone who says you can't make an impulse buy online hasn't seen me shopping.

I frequently throw in an extra kit or two I had not intended to buy (this is frequently tied to a sale or to bump over a discount / free shipping threshold).

The better shops I visit do have sales, Ace Hardware in Berkeley* has a rotating weekend sale about once a month, usually 20-25% off. By rotating between models, supplies, trains etc they can offer these sales fairly often without putting the whole shop on sale although they do that on occasion too. They also do a parking lot flea market on occassion where people can sell their stuff to each other.

Additionally they maintain a good stock of old kits (ebay, flea markets and estate sales I assume) and stuff from the more obscure / small kit makers. These things are why I think they have remained in business for decades.

* Berkeley Ace is locally kind of famous for its old school hobby shop in the basement.

On the other hand I've been to plenty of hobby shops with a horrible selection, clueless disinterested employees etc. Buying online doesn't lose much compared to those shops.

[White Wolf]

The LHSs in my area are all rather small in size and just can't compete with the selections and prices available for online shops. Even if the LHS has the same kit, it's more expensive than what it would cost me to buy the kit online, and that online price even includes shipping. Doesn't help that the shopkeeper at the store I frequent (no choice, it's the most convenient location for me as the others would require really long bus and train rides) is unhelpful and never smiles.

I usually buy only hobby supplies at LHSs now, or a kit which is sold out online.

[Darren Roberts]

Here's what I've always wondered. There's nothing stopping the LHS from actually having an on-line presence. It might be a good investment to hire someone to specifically be in charge of on-line sales. It wouldn't take that much effort, and I would imagine the return would be worth the investment.

[JasonW]

Here's what I've always wondered. There's nothing stopping the LHS from actually having an on-line presence. It might be a good investment to hire someone to specifically be in charge of on-line sales. It wouldn't take that much effort, and I would imagine the return would be worth the investment.

That is the argument I keep having. I've even volunteered to assist and spearhead the effort. Shop owner is in his early 60's and refuses to adapt to the new technology in retail and doesn't want to spend any money on it. The Twitter and Facebook accounts for the shop were set up by us without his direct involvement (although he knows about them and approves).

[C-130CrewChief]

Anyone who says you can't make an impulse buy online hasn't seen me shopping.

I frequently throw in an extra kit or two I had not intended to buy (this is frequently tied to a sale or to bump over a discount / free shipping threshold).

The better shops I visit do have sales, Ace Hardware in Berkeley* has a rotating weekend sale about once a month, usually 20-25% off. By rotating between models, supplies, trains etc they can offer these sales fairly often without putting the whole shop on sale although they do that on occasion too. They also do a parking lot flea market on occassion where people can sell their stuff to each other.

Additionally they maintain a good stock of old kits (ebay, flea markets and estate sales I assume) and stuff from the more obscure / small kit makers. These things are why I think they have remained in business for decades.

* Berkeley Ace is locally kind of famous for its old school hobby shop in the basement.

On the other hand I've been to plenty of hobby shops with a horrible selection, clueless disinterested employees etc. Buying online doesn't lose much compared to those shops.

I love that shop in Berkeley! I'm down the road in Hayward. There is also a pretty good shop in San Leandro. It used to be in Hayward, but moved about a year ago.

I drive up to Berkeley just for that shop!

Curt

[fulcrum1]

I used to love going to Ace Hardware in Berkeley followed by the shop in San Leandro and then on to Yannis. It's a shame he closed up shop.

[Aaronw]

I assume Hobbies Unlimited is the shop in San Leandro. He was in San Lorenzo on Hesperian Blvd for years, but the land lord jacked up his rent, so he moved the shop. It is a nice shop and Al the owner started working there in highschool, then bought the place when the original owner retired 25-30 years ago.

Whenever I get up to the bay area Berkeley Ace and Hobbies Unlimited are always on my places to go list.

There was a nice place down in Fremont too but the elderly owners retired and shut the place down about 6 years ago.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Aaronw

[Cajun21]

I think we are missing some info in this topic. We as , for a better word, dedicated modelers make a small percentage of a LHS sales base, approx 20% or less. As such the LHS must cater to the larger more casual model buyer and as we all know the replenishment rate of dedicated modelers is declining. When you compare a LHS with a buyer radius of say 50 miles it cannot compare with the buying radius of a online shop which could concievably have a buyers radius that is global. They both sevice the 20% but the base of the online shop is so much larger than that of the LHS that it cannot compare. Most succesfull LHS have devirsified in order to remain viable and in bussiness. One very excellent LHS that I frequented in western NY maintained a large selection of plastic, resin, decals and books when he moved into larger quarters but his new target audience turned to slot cars, he put a large slot car track in his shop, sold car parts, upgrades, repaired cars, etc. and increased his RC bussiness. This permitted him to still service us plastic guys, and even offer a slight dicount to his regulars every time we made a purchase. He also was semi - online that if you wanted something he would mail it you, it was handled by email or phone calls.

Anyway just a few more bits of info for the conversation.

Itch

Edited August 24, 2011 by Cajun21

[Neo]

Lots of good point

my LHS is HUGE it look like a warehouse and they have TONS AND TONS of stuff at great prices sometimes beating the web store BUT they NEVER have any special.

Also since i have moved its a real pain to get there because of traffic so last time i wen i bough a major paint reserve it cost me +60$ of humbrol enamel.. and got ZERO discount.. i was kinda disappointed as i know the owner by his first name as he knows mine (hes got 10+ employees working there). I had to go back to get more colors last week and spent 40$ on paint and diorama accessories and same thing no discount. I think a 10% could have been given there for the amount i spent on all that stuff

But thats just my 2 cents

[ThatJeffGuy]

it cost me +60$ of humbrol enamel.. and got ZERO discount..

They should have a loyalty program like mine Neo....each $25 you spend gets a stamp and after 10 stamps

they give you a $25 credit...this is how I bought all 3 of my Tamiya P51-D's ... after taking $25 off

the online stores couldn't touch the local price ince factoring in shipping+border fees.

If you know the owner why don't you suggest it to him.

BTW...is this UDISCO?

[Neo]

BTW...is this UDISCO?

Humm not wanting to get into trouble i shall not mention names. Its the most amazing hobby shop ive seen. But that one down side about it

Edited August 24, 2011 by Neo

[ThatJeffGuy]

Humm not wanting to get into trouble i shall not mention names. Its the most amazing hobby shop ive seen. But that one down side about it

:lol: well I've seen Francis' shop on the West Island and heard UDisco was like a warehouse so I'll

take that to mean you meant UDisco. But I doubt you would get in trouble for saying it's such a great

shop.

[thegoodsgt]

Jason, I think I know the shop you work at. I used to live in Boston and would make the trip out there every 4-5 weeks to see what's new and stock up on supplies. Great little shop! Those seasonal sales are a great idea. Incentivize the customers to buy when you know they have $$ in their pockets! The 50 percent off shelf reminds me of what APC Hobbies does at the IPMS Nats, where they offer an increasing discount on merchandise day by day. Again, a great idea to encourage people to buy *now* while an item is available and cheap.

Darren, good point. The first thing I would do if I owned a shop is build a simple web site and sell models there, even if just new releases. A simple web page similar to this one would go a good way to increasing my revenue. In addition, Facebook and Twitter are incredibly easy resources to leverage in order to get word out about new products and sales. Good companies know that you have to stay in the front of your customers' minds.

Example: I ate lunch at a local burger joint and went on Twitter to say how much I liked it. That afternoon someone from the restaurant responded to say thanks and offered what marketers refer to as a "call to action." He wrote, "When will we see you again?" That is brilliant! I have to believe that LHS owners could learn a lot by copying the successful practices of other companies.

Discounts, particularly for regular customers are a no-brainer in my mind. A lot of modelers are loyal; just look at the success and buzz around Sprue Brothers. In addition, if I owned a shop, I would give every person who comes into my store a reason to return, whether for a special order, assistance, or a simple coupon for 10 percent off their next purchase. As they say, it's much cheaper to retain an existing customer than it is to recruit a new one.

As a side note, I am a bit disappointed with my LHS at the moment. Over four weeks ago I asked him if he could special order a certain 1/32 scale kit a give me a bit of a discount; he agreed, and took my phone number. I have yet to hear from him.

Great discussion, guys!

[71roadrunner426]

When I was a kid we had at least Five or Six LHS dedicated to mostly plastic models and supplies and Kmart carried a huge selection of models, this was back in the mid 70's and early 80's. Now there is only One left and that hobby store is more than 30 miles away and he is mostly RC toys and model trains, Hell I even remember when MCcrory's and Woolworth carried a small supply of models. Our local hardware store does carry a limited supply of models and supplies though, but I miss the Mom and Pop LHS..

[CorsairMan]

I'm very interested in how hobby shops survive, or don't. They struggle to survive in competition with the online retailers, but I'm not sure that the common assumptions we make about why hobby shops fail are true. Here are a few things that I'm curious about.

Help us understand the dilemma of the LHS. I know we'd all like them to survive.

(If you work at an LHS or online shop, feel free to respond privately. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Your comments will be held in the strictest confidence.)

Where I live, there is a thriving small hardware store a few kilometers away from Home Depot. It can't touch Home Depot's prices, stock or selection. Its doing so well that it has recently expanded and moved slightly closer to the Home Depot. And I know why.

Want to compete with online retailers and you can't touch their prices? You destroy them on service. That little hardware store has very little employee turnover. They jump in to help customers and know exactly what is needed (and where it is in the store). Customers pay more but keep coming back. Now, I doubt its revenue will set any records but it keeps the owner and employees going.

The LHS must make service its number one priority because its the one thing that the online provider just can't provide. My LHS does a lot. Build nights. It vends at shows. It does demonstrations. It used to do contests but the whole point of all of it is to get people in the store and when people are in the store... they spend.

[Neo]

Yeah that is true i use to sell Electronic at Dumoulin when i was studying and our prices where little higher then futureshop and best buy but the service at our store kept the people coming.

Service is something customer know they have to pay for. But if you want to buy a pile of blank cd/dvd you dont really need the service and premium price..

[Phantom ordie]

LHS's are at the mercy of thier location and management. There is a LHS in Fayetteville NC that does a booming business. It has a high volume and is close to a military installation. Evey aspect of our hobby is covered. I frequent a small shop in Randolph Mall in Asheboro that has a small volume but will order what ever you need. Our model club meets there and the owner is very knowledgeable of all aspects of our hobby.The store also sells toys and other items to appeal to the mall shopper. I try to give him my business out of loyalty as do others and he returns the favor by putting in 35dollars in each raffle every month,raffle proceeds are to be spent in his store and he always gives members a discount. The monthly raffle can go as high as 70 or 80 dollars which is turned back into his sales.

[Hawkeye's Hobbies]

I'm very interested in how hobby shops survive, or don't. They struggle to survive in competition with the online retailers, but I'm not sure that the common assumptions we make about why hobby shops fail are true. Here are a few things that I'm curious about.

Sales

The big online retailers have sales every once in a while. They offer monthly or weekly discounts on selected kits, and they sometimes offer 10, 15, 25 percent off your entire purchase. These sales often motivate customers to buy something they might not have purchased otherwise, or at least at this moment.

Why don't local hobby shops do this? It seems to me that if I'm the owner of the LHS and advertised an impromptu sale at my shop, my customers might make a special trip to buy a few things. They might come for a discounted Hasegawa P-51 but leave with a book and paint. That could be several hundred dollars in my pocket that wouldn't have been there without the sale.

The thing could be said about offering an across-the-board discount on all kits. Isn't it better to actually sell kits at a 10 percent discount than to not sell any at all?

Unsold merch

I regularly see the same kits on the shelves of the LHS month after month after month. And year after year. Why don't the owners put some of those kits on sale? Sure, he won't make as much money as he would otherwise, but it's money in the pocket. Isn't it better to make, for example, $20 on a model rather than wait indefinitely to make $40 on it? Is there some tax benefit to having unsold merchandise?

Overhead

I typically read the argument that the online retailers don't have the overhead that the LHS does. Is that really true? My LHS typically has one employee on duty at any given point in time, I assume earning minimum wage. There might be two employees on Saturdays and Sundays. The online shops employ many more than that. As for rent, the LHS is relatively small whereas the online shops are large warehouses. (Granted, retail space is rented at a premium.) Heat, A/C, and electricity must flow to the LHS 8 hours a day, as they do for the warehouses.

At the end of the day, it seems that the online retailers survive simply thanks to volume. They're able to sell to hundreds of customers around the country whereas the LHS is selling to the small number of hobbyists within maybe a 50 mile radius.

Help us understand the dilemma of the LHS. I know we'd all like them to survive.

(If you work at an LHS or online shop, feel free to respond privately. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Your comments will be held in the strictest confidence.)

There are different types of online retailers, just as there are different business models among brick and mortar retailers. First one must compare apples to apples as it were. Having just returned from a visit to Sprue Brothers (and I have visited some of the other online retailers too) the only difference between them and the average LHS...is how they interact with their customers. One has customers walking onto their property the other virtually.

Both have inventory, staff, mortgage/rent, utilities and everything else that goes along with being a legitimate business. In fact the overhead at a major online retailer is higher than that of a LHS. One example they have to pay for shipping materials which a LHS only has a fraction in the purchase of a couple rolls of plastic bags to allow a customer an easier time carrying out their purchase. Yes, volume is greater but that has everything to do with the geographical footprint which the retailer touches.

Now there are those online "retailers" who are nothing more than order processing services, they simply collect orders together then go source the items and then ship them to the customers placing the order...a brokerage. They stock little if anything and if you really investigate probably are not operating as a licensed business in the community they call home. In fact, some if discovered would probably face fines and closure for failure to comply with local zoning ordinances.

Now each and every LHS has the same opportunities to reach as many people as do the online merchants...some opt to open a second or third retail location in their area but completely discard any thought about opening a virtual storefront on the web. Again my article mentioned above about their geographical footprint. The world is an oyster ready to be plucked...yet they can't even harvest those customers in their community.

Most LHS owners and managers are not businessmen in anything other than they operate a business. This puts them at a disadvantage because not only do they have to compete with other hobby retailers but they also have to compete with other retailers next door. There are only a finite number of customers in any given community and they spend their money for two reasons. First are for those items needed for their needs. Second those dollars spent on their wants are dollars which every retailer in an area competes to get. If the guy selling electronics captures their attention before the LHS does, then the LHS is left with an empty cash register that day. So blaming online hobby retailers for the woes and failures of the LHS is bunk!

If you noticed, there are online retailers failing too. They again didn't have what it takes to survive in a tight and competitive market. Too many thought that they could make it by selling cheap to their friends and friends of friends. Many a business fails using that as a business strategy!!! Most businesses fail to have a plan, one that not only covers their costs, but also provides sufficient income to support themselves. Those heavy discounts don't provide enough to pay the bills and bills are forever factor in business operations. Gotta spend money to make money and if you're not making enough or spending too much...FAIL.

So if any business, not just a LHS fails chances are its because the owner didn't do their homework or selected a market that wasn't conducive with the demographics of the location where they are located. But most likely they were not versed in the necessary aspects of running a business or know how to truly manage the resources to operate a business. It boils down to business decisions...make the right ones and you survive...the wrong ones...well hopefully you didn't put yourself in hock up to your eyeballs.

[Robertson]

It's harder to tell customers there is a sale in the real world. You need to do advertising instead of just making a few changes to a web site. And online sellers have the email address of every customer - stores don't.

It doesn't matter what a online store's warehouse looks like. You never see it. On the other hand, there is nothing sadder than a retail store with little merchandise in it. You have to have stuff in there, even if not all of it sells, just to get people inside to buy the stuff that does sell.

I found the above post extremely useful, because it explains at a stroke several things that have always puzzled me about Hobby Shops with years-old price stickers on some boxes, and yet never offering a sale on them...

The one thing I like the most about my Local Hobby Shop (Hobbyhouse in Ottawa), besides getting my supplies like paint etc, is that the owner is a nice level-headed guy who lets me unwrap the shrinkwrap and look at one kit per visit, no commitment to buy, which is precisely the one thing online shopping can never do... The other major hobby shops in my town do not do that, and I never go there...

It seems a fonder memory too when you come home with an unexpected impulse buy: An Eduard 1/48th Lysander recently, which he ordered in double with a customer's special request... (It does strike me that whenever he has something I find interesting, and that I don't expect him to have, it's often because of a customer's special order... He claims Eduard does not sell well, which I find surprising. He won't stock much, or anything, in the way of AM decals, and no photoetch either, both of which are the biggest relative advantages a lot of Eduard kits have in the first place...)

The Lysander is a fairly pricey kit I would likely not have ordered online because of its somewhat non War-like appearance... Looking at the fabric effect "in the flesh" won me over, and only the LHS could have done that... He does give the $25 coupon rebate after 10 X $25 punches, which makes him fairly competitive...

I am consistently surprised to find that a high percentage of Hobby Shop owners (outside of him) are unsmiling, unfriendly, often in a downright weird way. It is getting less so now as they are getting fewer, but the big warehouse shop in Montreal, mentionned above, did ask me to take off my jacket to go into their warehouse, which seemed just plain nuts to me... How can you hide a larger box under your jacket? Keep the smaller boxes under a camera and get done with it... Also all the employees there (when I was there ten years ago) act creepy, weird and intrusive, have no knowledge or concern for modelling, or for what you want or asked for... Their only qualification is clearly that they are friends or relatives of the owner, and I would recommend you avoid the place on that basis alone... Their huge storage space is actually somewhat deceptive: It's just the same stuff in many, many multiples, and the selection they have is little better than average, if at all: They had no AM decals when I was there, and then went into a long explanation as to how they go bad over time: Unconvincing...

They do have low prices but trust me: You will find the savings are not worth the experience... Sadly a very nice lady who ran "Les Miniatures" in Longueuil died around 2002, and an excellent in-mall store, "Kangourou", closed a few years later, so there is much less to see in Montreal now, within the reach of its Subway at least...

Robertson