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Ok so I'm getting the itch bad again and will probably do another 48th Fort before the end of the year. If so I plan on doing B-17G-105-BO 43-39126 of the 487BG 838sqn. This is the aircraft that the pilot I met at MAPS was in when they were rammed by a 109. I did a casual search and couldn't find any decals for any 487bg planes but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

If anyone knows of any please let me know asap.

I know the aircraft in the 487 looked like this

487bg.gif

But what I don't know is what they did to differentiate the squadrons. So therefore what would a 838th sqn aircraft look like? Letter number combos?

If there are no decals I'll probably just do the best I can with paint and masks. Shouldn't be fun.

K

When done I will take this immediately to the museum and it will probably be added to his display alongside his medals and other information.

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I can't help with the markings question, but looking around on the 'net I found an interesting PDF document containing a first-hand account of the incident along with quite a bit of information from Capt. William Budd Wentz. Hope you find it useful with your build.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tom.mccrary/TargetParchim-RammedOverGermany.pdf

There is also a lot of reference made to Capt. Wentz and his aircraft at the following link, however they mention there that commercial decals are/were not available for the aircraft. They do however refer to some books which may contain images of the aircraft -

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1198275024/Bud+Wentz's+B-17

Wayne

Edited by Armitage
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2G is for the 836th squadron. The rest are 4F-837th, 2C-838th and R5-839th. Some of the 839th had the red cowls and sometimes chin turret, the 837th had yellow cowls. And both in the last couple months of the war.

HTH

Ken

edit-And when they painted the tails yellow they painted the serial # out.

ref. Freeman's The Mighty Eighth

Edited by WymanV
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2G is for the 836th squadron. The rest are 4F-837th, 2C-838th and R5-839th. Some of the 839th had the red cowls and sometimes chin turret, the 837th had yellow cowls. And both in the last couple months of the war.

HTH

Ken

edit-And when they painted the tails yellow they painted the serial # out.

ref. Freeman's The Mighty Eighth

So for the 838 which he was in his aircraft would have 2C on the fuselage. What about the 3rd was it always R?

SO then History or whatever's Dogfights got it wrong by doing it as 2G seen here

Ram.jpg?height=165&width=400

Are we positive the sn# would have been painted over? That'd make things a heck of a lot easier.

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Ooh-wait! I misread that. It was the aircraft letter on fin that was "obscured and not repainted". Sorry about that!

Which is the "R" you ask about (moved to the fuselage, obviously), which is different for, and particular to every aircraft in the squadron and how one knew who was who.

Ken

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Any records out there as to what letters went on what plane? I got in touch with my friend at the museum and they are going to try to furnish me with a picture of the actual plane but I'm not sure how much it will show.

So far I basically have it as looking like this

487bg.gif

Minus the red cowls and with 2C instead of 2G. Once I find out the last letter then I'll basically be ready to go. I've seen they have a weird V shape on the upper wing surface as well. Not sure if it was on the bottom also.

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Bigasshammm here's a link to 487th website 487th link

has pilot/crew names and confirms #s but shows no aircraft name

12oclock High has a discussions seemingly final disposition of the A/C after the emergency landing in Belgium to "salvage" 12oclock link

also this lik to a PDF by Captain Wentz of the incident. (page 8 has AC data like the AC code 2C) pdf Wentz link

HTH

any way Ill go stand over here and wait for you to start the build getsmileyCA81AZS3.gifSEE YA

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one of these Kris, the one on amazon isnt the visible kit. I went looking on ebay and for some reason found only 3 and for no less than $100! I dont get that at all!

http://www.internethobbies.com/re1vib1flfob.html

Wow, walmart has it! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Revell-1-48-Visible-B-17G-Flying-Fortress-Model-Kit/14904154

http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=RMX5614

Compared to this jack azz on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220614819752&hlp=false

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Ok I've been given a few of his personal pictures. None of them show his aircraft but there is an artist's painting of the incident that has his aircraft with the 2C and final letter being K so I'm going to go with that. It also has the cowls and chin gun painted red. Anyone know if that was standard for 838sqn?

WymnaV stated this...

"Some of the 839th had the red cowls and sometimes chin turret, the 837th had yellow cowls. And both in the last couple months of the war."

So when I originally read that I read it as the 838 had unpainted cowls? But perhaps they were red and the 839th sometimes had them?

I put in another question to the museum so hopefully they will know as well.

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This might help

http://www.487thbg.org/Markings.shtml'>http://www.487thbg.org/Markings.shtml

Came from here

http://www.487thbg.org/

Also, dig through here.

http://forum.armyairforces.com/487th-BG-Lavenham-f70.aspx

Seriously, this can be an entertaining sight. There are 3 B-17 vets on here. They go back and forth sometimes. "my bomb group did this, yours did that". Awesome.

Edited by B-17 guy
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