Bigasshammm Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Ok so I'm getting the itch bad again and will probably do another 48th Fort before the end of the year. If so I plan on doing B-17G-105-BO 43-39126 of the 487BG 838sqn. This is the aircraft that the pilot I met at MAPS was in when they were rammed by a 109. I did a casual search and couldn't find any decals for any 487bg planes but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. If anyone knows of any please let me know asap. I know the aircraft in the 487 looked like this But what I don't know is what they did to differentiate the squadrons. So therefore what would a 838th sqn aircraft look like? Letter number combos? If there are no decals I'll probably just do the best I can with paint and masks. Shouldn't be fun. K When done I will take this immediately to the museum and it will probably be added to his display alongside his medals and other information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Armitage Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) I can't help with the markings question, but looking around on the 'net I found an interesting PDF document containing a first-hand account of the incident along with quite a bit of information from Capt. William Budd Wentz. Hope you find it useful with your build. http://home.earthlink.net/~tom.mccrary/TargetParchim-RammedOverGermany.pdf There is also a lot of reference made to Capt. Wentz and his aircraft at the following link, however they mention there that commercial decals are/were not available for the aircraft. They do however refer to some books which may contain images of the aircraft - http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1198275024/Bud+Wentz's+B-17 Wayne Edited August 25, 2011 by Armitage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Armitage Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Just found another link to an html file containing the same info as the PDF, but it has a couple of photographs that seem to be of the imapct and damage caused by the 109 - http://sites.google.com/site/justlearns/history/Parchim Wayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) 2G is for the 836th squadron. The rest are 4F-837th, 2C-838th and R5-839th. Some of the 839th had the red cowls and sometimes chin turret, the 837th had yellow cowls. And both in the last couple months of the war. HTH Ken edit-And when they painted the tails yellow they painted the serial # out. ref. Freeman's The Mighty Eighth Edited August 25, 2011 by WymanV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 2G is for the 836th squadron. The rest are 4F-837th, 2C-838th and R5-839th. Some of the 839th had the red cowls and sometimes chin turret, the 837th had yellow cowls. And both in the last couple months of the war. HTH Ken edit-And when they painted the tails yellow they painted the serial # out. ref. Freeman's The Mighty Eighth So for the 838 which he was in his aircraft would have 2C on the fuselage. What about the 3rd was it always R? SO then History or whatever's Dogfights got it wrong by doing it as 2G seen here Are we positive the sn# would have been painted over? That'd make things a heck of a lot easier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Ooh-wait! I misread that. It was the aircraft letter on fin that was "obscured and not repainted". Sorry about that! Which is the "R" you ask about (moved to the fuselage, obviously), which is different for, and particular to every aircraft in the squadron and how one knew who was who. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Any records out there as to what letters went on what plane? I got in touch with my friend at the museum and they are going to try to furnish me with a picture of the actual plane but I'm not sure how much it will show. So far I basically have it as looking like this Minus the red cowls and with 2C instead of 2G. Once I find out the last letter then I'll basically be ready to go. I've seen they have a weird V shape on the upper wing surface as well. Not sure if it was on the bottom also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Chevrons were top and bottom. And I have no clue about an individual A/C call letter for 43-39126. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Armitage Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 This time I can help. :) The following images come from 'Camouflage & Markings - No 13 - Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress - USAAC & AAF 1937-1945' and are copyright Ducimus Books of London - Wayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Awesome thanks Wayne and WymanV. Now I just need to get a kit. lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Kris, I receomend getting the newest release of the visible kit, it has the parts for the cheyenne tail, you just have to make the cuts to the tail for it.Plus it's got the 5 in-flight crew figures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Ok how do I know if it's the newer release of the visible kit? They have it on Amazon for 29$ free shipping. Haven't looked anywhere else yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I snapped one up on ebay a few months ago for about the same price. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 I could go get one right now at my LHS for 48$. But I won't Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prop Duster Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Bigasshammm here's a link to 487th website 487th link has pilot/crew names and confirms #s but shows no aircraft name 12oclock High has a discussions seemingly final disposition of the A/C after the emergency landing in Belgium to "salvage" 12oclock link also this lik to a PDF by Captain Wentz of the incident. (page 8 has AC data like the AC code 2C) pdf Wentz link HTH any way Ill go stand over here and wait for you to start the build SEE YA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 one of these Kris, the one on amazon isnt the visible kit. I went looking on ebay and for some reason found only 3 and for no less than $100! I dont get that at all! http://www.internethobbies.com/re1vib1flfob.html Wow, walmart has it! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Revell-1-48-Visible-B-17G-Flying-Fortress-Model-Kit/14904154 http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=RMX5614 Compared to this jack azz on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220614819752&hlp=false Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Ok I've been given a few of his personal pictures. None of them show his aircraft but there is an artist's painting of the incident that has his aircraft with the 2C and final letter being K so I'm going to go with that. It also has the cowls and chin gun painted red. Anyone know if that was standard for 838sqn? WymnaV stated this... "Some of the 839th had the red cowls and sometimes chin turret, the 837th had yellow cowls. And both in the last couple months of the war." So when I originally read that I read it as the 838 had unpainted cowls? But perhaps they were red and the 839th sometimes had them? I put in another question to the museum so hopefully they will know as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) This might help http://www.487thbg.org/Markings.shtml'>http://www.487thbg.org/Markings.shtml Came from here http://www.487thbg.org/ Also, dig through here. http://forum.armyairforces.com/487th-BG-Lavenham-f70.aspx Seriously, this can be an entertaining sight. There are 3 B-17 vets on here. They go back and forth sometimes. "my bomb group did this, yours did that". Awesome. Edited August 29, 2011 by B-17 guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 More: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=4198 That's all I got, sorry man but I cannot find a pic of this plane. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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