DutyCat Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I shot some of this last night, and it really did not want to gloss up unless it went on REALLY wet and thick. I tried various air pressures and lacquer thinner ratios, including straight from the bottle, and nothing worked that great. Now, I am going to have to go back and polish the crap out of it before I spray the metal. Anyone have a suggestion on what to use? I need a polish that is not solvent based because I don't want the polish to eat the gloss black. I am going to let the paint cure for a two or three days before I polish it. And before you ask, yes, it was extremely well mixed. Edited August 31, 2011 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gundamhead Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have never liked Alclad's GB. My problem was it usually stayed tacky. In the future, find your favorite enamel GB and use that instead. I still like MM and the little Testors 1/4 oz bottles, and have had good results with them. As for your current problem, I'd wet sand until smooth, then use a new enamel GB over the sanded Alclad. You don't want polish between the GB and the Alclad. It can add more problems later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barneydhc82 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I've had tacky problems with Alclad Gloss Black and now use Tamiya TS-14 in the rattle can..decanted into my airbrush..and it is great. Barney Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Talon acrylic NMF paints recommend against using a primer. They spray great, look great, are easy to work with, and actually smell nice. I don't know why anyone bothers with Alclad honestly... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barneydhc82 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'd love to try Talon Acrylics..if I could find them in a local hobby shop here in the Vancouver area. Barney Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Talon acrylic NMF paints recommend against using a primer. They spray great, look great, are easy to work with, and actually smell nice. I don't know why anyone bothers with Alclad honestly... Do they really work that good? I mean really? Do they look as good as Alcad or Metalizer. Is their no compromise to the finish because of the water base? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cyrus Tan Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I never had good luck with Alclad Gloss Black base either. They're worse than useless IMHO. Like others have mentioned, it's tacky even when after a couple of weeks of drying time. I even tried shooting 2 light coats in 2 different spray sessions with the same results. One thing nobody has mentioned is that Alclad base never seems to settle? A couple of week after I shot my Alcad finish, hairline cracks began to develop and it progressively got worse. Tamiya synthetic lacquers work much better and so does Mr.Surfacer (polished). Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 The question before us was about Alclad base, which has been answered well - thread hijacking is for nOObs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neptune48 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) I shot some of this last night, and it really did not want to gloss up unless it went on REALLY wet and thick. I tried various air pressures and lacquer thinner ratios, including straight from the bottle, and nothing worked that great. Now, I am going to have to go back and polish the crap out of it before I spray the metal. Anyone have a suggestion on what to use? I need a polish that is not solvent based because I don't want the polish to eat the gloss black. I am going to let the paint cure for a two or three days before I polish it. And before you ask, yes, it was extremely well mixed. I had some non-dry problems, but when I thinned it with MEK instead of lacquer thinner, it dried well. I use Tamiya Polishing Compounds from Coarse to Fine to Finish. Auto rubbing compound followed by toothpaste also works. I use cloth diapers from Target for polishing cloths. Here's a test shot on 3/4 PVC pipe. Edited September 1, 2011 by Neptune48 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
do335b6 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I've never had success with either the Gloss black or the grey, now the clear primer is fabulous. It drys quickly and gives your metal a great shine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Talon acrylic NMF paints recommend against using a primer. They spray great, look great, are easy to work with, and actually smell nice. I don't know why anyone bothers with Alclad honestly... Maybe because we can't buy the stuff; in your drive to further the sales of this product, perhaps you might remember that not everyone lives in the U.S. Edgar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I've never had success with either the Gloss black or the grey, now the clear primer is fabulous. It drys quickly and gives your metal a great shine. You men the gray primer/microfiller isn't any good either? What is wrong with it? Clear Primer? You mean the aqua coat? Are you using it both as a gloss base coat and a top protective finishing coat? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I had some non-dry problems, but when I thinned it with MEK instead of lacquer thinner, it dried well. I use Tamiya Polishing Compounds from Coarse to Fine to Finish. Auto rubbing compound followed by toothpaste also works. I use cloth diapers from Target for polishing cloths. Here's a test shot on 3/4 PVC pipe. Nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) UPDATE: 48 hours after painting the gloss black and it still is a little tacky. I took some 0000 steel wool and smoothed it down some, then went though a series of wet sands down to 12000. It looked pretty good...smooth and even just not quite glossy enough. I then tried some Tamiya plastic polish and that ate through the GB paint, so I am going to let it dry couple more days. If it doesn't cure well enough to take the polish (maybe it can't because of the solvent in the polish), then I am going to knock it down with steel wool again and try glossing it up gradually with Future. Gotta salvage something out of this. BTW, there are two NMF projects I am working on at the same time....the Airfix 737 and a little 1/72 Beech 18 from some garage English company who's name escapes me right now. The experimentation continues... Edited September 1, 2011 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neptune48 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) UPDATE: 48 hours after painting the gloss black and it still is a little tacky. I took some 0000 steel wool and smoothed it down some, then went though a series of wet sands down to 12000. It looked pretty good...smooth and even just not quite glossy enough. I then tried some Tamiya plastic polish and that ate through the GB paint, so I am going to let it dry couple more days. If it doesn't cure well enough to take the polish (maybe it can't because of the solvent in the polish), then I am going to knock it down with steel wool again and try glossing it up gradually with Future. Gotta salvage something out of this. BTW, there are two NMF projects I am working on at the same time....the Airfix 737 and a little 1/72 Beech 18 from some garage English company who's name escapes me right now. The experimentation continues... Sorry to hear that, DutyCat. Looks like I gave you bad advice, though I think it's related to the paint remaining tacky. The Alclad Gloss Black Base should dry very quickly. If not, something has gone wrong. It hadn't cured, and even though using the steel wool made it feel dry, the coating was still vulnerable. I've only used one large 4oz bottle of the GBB. Only once did the paint stay tacky and never dried. I finally stripped it and started over. During that painting session, I had thinned it slightly with hardware store lacquer thinner. The next time, I thinned product from the same bottle with MEK, and it dried right away to a pretty tough coating. Ever since then, when using GBB I always thin with MEK. Since then, I have shifted to other gloss lacquers as my preference. I've used Model Master Automotive Lacquer gloss black, Scalecoat II gloss loco black, and Mr. Color Gloss black, all with good results. I've successfully rubbed each one to a smooth finish with rubbing compound or the Tamiya polishes, though occasionally I've taken the paint off. I think that's a matter of letting it cure thoroughly before rubbing out. Good luck, and please keep us posted on your progress. Regards, Bruce Edited September 2, 2011 by Neptune48 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barneydhc82 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 A few years ago I was working on a "lighted" C-47, RCAF 1000. The Alclad II Gloss Black Base never curred and I reverted to a trick that I had stumbled on...After stripping the Alclad, I sprayed the model with Model Master Glos Black ena mel thinned with lacquer thinner and when dry to the touch I rubbed on SnJ Aluminum powder, giving a beautiful polished aluminum finish. My 1/48 scale aeroclub Chipmunk was finished in a base coat of Tamiya TS-14 Gloss Black then sprayed with light coats of Alclad II polished Aluminum. Barney Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie Cheetah Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Interesting subject. I bought a bottle of Alclad GB last spring at an estate sale but havent really had much of a chance to play with it yet, just a quick test on the exhausts and base for my FM 1/72 X-wing. I domt recall having any issues with it. I have used Alclad II lacquers over Mr Surfacer and Tamiya fine white primers without any issues at all. Interesting way to vary the sheen of the metal coat actually is to use various shades for your undercoat. I've only used one large 4oz bottle of the GBB. Only once did the paint stay tacky and never dried. I finally stripped it and started over. During that painting session, I had thinned it slightly with hardware store lacquer thinner. The next time, I thinned product from the same bottle with MEK, and it dried right away to a pretty tough coating. Ever since then, when using GBB I always thin with MEK. I seen this mentioned a few times here and many times elswhere... What the heck is MEK and where do I get it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Armitage Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 MEK = Methyl Ethyl Ketone and it's used in modelling to weld polystyrene plastic surfaces together. I used to use it years ago when constructing my HO-scale buildings and it worked very well. I believe though that it is a slightly hazardous chemical, gives off strong fumes, and is very flammable. HTH. Wayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thunder57 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 As I see many of modellers have a problem with Alclad. I was always try to avoid metalic finishes because I never reach good results. Last month one of my very good friend show and told me how he solve the problem with Alclad. He did not used any base colours but only Future, He put a light layer of future leave it for 24 hours and then polished surface with soft cotton swab. He repeat this three times, The result of later Alclad II finish is wisible on pictures. After seeing this I sed to me that my next project will be with metal finish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neptune48 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 As I see many of modellers have a problem with Alclad. I was always try to avoid metalic finishes because I never reach good results. Last month one of my very good friend show and told me how he solve the problem with Alclad. He did not used any base colours but only Future, He put a light layer of future leave it for 24 hours and then polished surface with soft cotton swab. He repeat this three times, The result of later Alclad II finish is wisible on pictures. After seeing this I sed to me that my next project will be with metal finish. At one time on their Website, Thunder, Alclad recommended using Future as a base on all of their regular finishes. Since they've come out with their own line of undercoats, they don't mention that anymore. However, for the High-Shine finishes to work, you must have a glossy black undercoat. Every gloss black undercoat I have tried has worked, provided it is properly cured. I believe it has something to do with absorbing light passing through the top coat so that it doesn't reflect back and disperse through the top coat, which reduces the high shine, almost mirror-like reflection. That really beautiful metallic finish you posted looks like it was painted with either the standard finishes or the high shine finish without the gloss black base. You can see (sort of) the difference in this test shot on 3/4" PVC pipe, though I wish the lighting had been better. One side was shot with a micro-filler primer and the other side with a gloss black base. If you want a very shiny metallic finish, you absolutely must use a gloss black base. The High Shine paints are: ALC-107 CHROME FOR PLASTIC ALC-109 POLISHED BRASS ALC-115 STAINLESS STEEL ALC-118 GOLD TITANIUM ALC-119 AIRFRAME ALUMINIUM I left off the two colors for Lexan. They are for use on clear RC car bodies. The regular finishes are: ALC-101 ALUMINIUM ALC-102 DURALUMINIUM ALC-103 DARK ALUMINIUM ALC-104 PALE BURNT METAL ALC-106 WHITE ALUMINIUM ALC-108 PALE GOLD ALC-110 COPPER ALC-111 MAGNESIUM ALC-112 STEEL ALC-113 JET EXHAUST ALC-116 SEMI MATTE ALUMINIUM ALC-117 DULL ALUMINIUM ALC-120 GUNMETAL ALC-121 BURNT IRON ALC-123 EXHUAST MANIFOLD They work fine with most good primers or micro-fillers, and will also work with Future. There's lots of useful information on the Alclad II Website. Regards, Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thunder57 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Neptune48 Thanks fo this extra explanation. As I told in the past I have always problem with metalic finishes and realy I still did not try Alclad jet. But now I will shurely try it on EDUARDs MiG-21. In my cca 35 years of plastic modelling I finished I think only 2 with metal finish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neptune48 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Good luck, Thunder, and please keep us posted on your progress. Regards, Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gundamhead Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 UPDATE: 48 hours after painting the gloss black and it still is a little tacky. I took some 0000 steel wool and smoothed it down some, then went though a series of wet sands down to 12000. It looked pretty good...smooth and even just not quite glossy enough. I then tried some Tamiya plastic polish and that ate through the GB paint, so I am going to let it dry couple more days. If it doesn't cure well enough to take the polish (maybe it can't because of the solvent in the polish), then I am going to knock it down with steel wool again and try glossing it up gradually with Future. Gotta salvage something out of this. BTW, there are two NMF projects I am working on at the same time....the Airfix 737 and a little 1/72 Beech 18 from some garage English company who's name escapes me right now. The experimentation continues... If you got it smoothed down, just spray Testors or MM GB over what you have. I've done it and it dried nice for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 If you got it smoothed down, just spray Testors or MM GB over what you have. I've done it and it dried nice for me. Well, I already shot the Future. Did it today. Rubbed everything down with wet 0000 steel wool then shot it with a 50/50 mix of Future and Windex. It worked well. I am still going to polish it with Tamiya polish just to see if I can get it a little smoother. It looks pretty good as it sits. I will post a pic or two when I get the Alclad sprayed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bails Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Lots of input here on a subject that never seems to go away. Using Alclad II really is a combination of art and science. The science part is the primer...first, ALWAYS use a primer for this product, even tho' some folks say its not needed. Since Alclad II is a lacquer, the ideal primer is lacquer. For the shiny Alclad finishes I suggest using Model Master gloss black lacquer offerd in their line aimed at the plastic car market. Now the art part....thin this paint with lacquer thinner to about a 70% thinner to 30% paint ratio and do not spray heavy coats....fewer light coats is best. Practice on blank styrene sheet before applying to your model. Bails Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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