Who paints using "scale effect?"

[datahiker]

I'm just curious to see how many people lighten their paint jobs for scale effect. Does the scale factor into your decision?

[Joe Hegedus]

THe only time I'll lighten the finish is if I want it to look faded. Otherwise, the paint is generally straight from the bottle. Life's too short and building time too scarce as it is!

[RiderFan]

Pre-shading not with standing, I can't say I've ever done this. I find it difficult enough to get the base colours correct much less try and adjust them for scale effects.

Edited September 19, 2011 by RiderFan

[toadwbg]

I don't worry about scale effect personally.

[strikeeagle801]

Pre-shading not with standing, I can't say I've ever done this. I find it difficult enough to get the base colours correct much less try and adjust them for scale effects.

Agreed! I've never done scale effect either. That's not to say I don't believe in the principle of it, I just don't have the time or patience to figure it out. My models look just fine to me with the colors straight out of the bottle.

Aaron

[metroman]

I do factor the theater and operating conditions in my finishes - but I can't say that 'scale' has any bearing on what I do, way to many kits in the stash to slow things down like that

[Gundamhead]

I've always found the theory very flawed. For example in 72 scale, take a picture of a color from 6 ft away. Compare that picture's color right next to the real subject. Supposedly the pic will be 'whited' or 'hazed' out from the atmosphere haze slightly. So your supposed to add white paint to represent the moisture in the atmosphere.

The thing is, it doesn't really work. I have always found the colors are going to be the same. It gives AMS guys something to strive for, but it's a severely flawed theory. Atmospheric haze changes every minute. So now they would have you believe you need to add the atmosphere to the paint in form of white. Well white is only going to lighten the color. I know your trying to represent the haze at 6 feet, so that's what you want. But it's wrong. Haze doesn't change the color, it changes the atmosphere, and it doesn't lighten a color. The color is the color.

Also the math is wrong. Do the picture thing from 6 feet. Compare the results.(They're gonna be the same.) Now you do your scale effect on your subject by adding white. Now in order to view that same color effect in 1/72 you have to be eyballing the subject at 1/72 or 1" away. Now the math is wrong because your eyeball isn't going to be in 1/72 to compare. Neither is the atmosphere. You'd need a lens to magnify your sight to scale and a pressure chamber to modify the atmosphere to scale. Even then, the air molecules are going to be 72 times too big to be accurate.

I've been waiting for the AMS guys to come up with 'time scale effect'. You know, "this model was painted as it appeared at 04:30 in Aruba on March the 4th, 1972. The colors were properly adjusted, but then I found it rained that morning so I have to repaint it to add the rain effect."

:blink: :unsure: :wacko: :D

[Alvis 3.1]

I tried it a couple of times, and it didn't make much of a difference in how it turned out (Maybe I didn't tone it down enough?)

I tend to be not to try to match something that closely either, so no, I would say I don't do it now.

Alvis 3.1

[CorsairMan]

I pretty much add 25 to 30% white or fleshtone to everything.

[Raptor01]

Always do. I use the little tins and bottles of paint.

John

[John Dublin]

I always lighten my paints, not for Scale effect but to counteract the darkening effect of gloss coats.

Cheers

John

[B-17 guy]

I really dont worry about this at all, other than one single color. Green zinc chromate, can not stand this color straight out of the bottle. That being said, I generally only use it for interiors, and always with a wash to tone it down, which pretty much makes it look alot like interior green. But I use GZC, interior green and euro dark green (Dull dark green) in my interiors to give some sense of difference between each peice, as if toshow differant components coming from differant suppliers or even paint batches.

[geedubelyer]

Interesting topic this.

I answered no but then again, I don't tend to use actual FS or paint codes either. So far I've just used my judgement to see what looks right. Is this a form of scale effect?

[Jinro]

....why would you add a "haze" effect to a model? This is model building, not painting a picture :blink:

Edited September 19, 2011 by Jinro

[Hal Marshman Sr]

I worked at Logan Intl Airport (BOS) For 50 years. I've watched aircraft from all angles, and from a tiny dot in the sky, to right underneath the thing. Unless it's foggy, even up to a half mile, there's no color fading. If you subscribe to the theory that you're looking at it from a distance, then you should eliminate lines, and all stencilling. You're looking in those gear bays and cockpits from a distance? just a black hole, no detail. I haven't subscribed to the fading paint theory since I first read about it, at least 30 years ago. One of my chief problems with Model Master paint, is they prefaded it. Course the theory states that the ampount of fading changes with the various scales, so what scale has MM prefaded their paints to? Hal Sr

[spejic]

I use opposite scale effect. I find that 1/144 models sometimes need a little extra contrast to make them look good. A close color demarcation (like, say, dark and light ghost gray) that is obvious in a 1/48 model is close to invisible on a 1/144 model.

But like B-17 guy there is one color I never use straight. I never paint anything black - I always use NATO black or cockpit black or other paints similar to that.

[DutyCat]

One of my chief problems with Model Master paint, is they prefaded it. Course the theory states that the ampount of fading changes with the various scales, so what scale has MM prefaded their paints to? Hal Sr

So far as I know, they don't prefade it. I have done draws of their Ghost Grays, let them dry on card, and laid then right next to an FS595 chip and they are dead nuts on. In one of their brochures they talk about scale effect and how to achieve it through lightening.

But in answer to the pole question, I usually lighten my paint as as real planes just don't seem to have the color "vividity" that a model has.

I think it has to do primarily with the brightness of sunlight. If you put your model out in the sunlight on a bright day, I'll be it would look lighter.

Plus also military planes especially fade and weather out over time.

[Jennings]

I've always found the theory very flawed.

It's not a theory, it's fact. The atmosphere contains particulates. Particulates scatter light. And you may find it flawed, but the likes of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc, etc, etc didn't find it so, because they used it in every single landscape they ever painted.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Jennings

[JasonW]

I don't bother with it personally.

If I want scale effect I'll look at my models from across the room.......

[Raptor01]

It's not a theory, it's fact. The atmosphere contains particulates. Particulates scatter light. And you may find it flawed, but the likes of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc, etc, etc didn't find it so, because they used it in every single landscape they ever painted.

Did you use scale effect on your P-40? I can't remember where it was posted.

[jester292]

I don't use scale effect. It's my opinion that if you're using scale effect to simulate looking at an object from a fixed distance, then you should also model those panel lines and exhaust stains realistically. Which is to say, you'd most likely never see them, and if you could see them, I assure you they are not uniform. Why oh why, IPMS, do you judge model competitions this way?

Aaron

[Gundamhead]

It's not a theory, it's fact. The atmosphere contains particulates. Particulates scatter light. And you may find it flawed, but the likes of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc, etc, etc didn't find it so, because they used it in every single landscape they ever painted.

But not for scaleand it's not 'whiter' at a distance. The great artists were also artits and interpreted what they saw. They didn't have a RLM or FS for color. Something's color is not whiter at only 144", 72", 48", 32", or 24" away. Try it. Your Gloss Sea Blue is still Gloss Sea Blue at those distances.

Let's say you're looking at your 72nd Corsair 10 feet away on your shelf. 10 x 72 = 720 scale feet. Now go try the real thing at 720 feet away. Unless there is heavy fog, the color is still going to be the same to your eye.

That's the flaw in the scale effect theory. The atmosphere changes, not the color.

[Jinro]

It's not a theory, it's fact. The atmosphere contains particulates. Particulates scatter light. And you may find it flawed, but the likes of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc, etc, etc didn't find it so, because they used it in every single landscape they ever painted.

Models do not equal paintings. Two completely different mediums.

[afterburner]

Fascinating topic and I'm enjoying everyone's replies. In my opinion I've only seen it done successfully once and that was on a F-15E at the 2009 Nats in Columbus. And to be honest, the builder spent a good 20 mins explaining how and why he did it and the effect he was trying to achieve. Had he not explained it and showed references I wouldn't have caught on to it. That said, I wouldn't use the technique myself as I just don't see the necessity. It's hard enough for me to just get the paint mixed to the right consistency to airbrush successfully.

[HOLMES]

I don't bother with it personally.

If I want scale effect I'll look at my models from across the room.......

+ ONE