one of the great est makers potentially on his way out

[Fotios Rouch]

What is the reason, I wonder, when modelers buy from pirates to save a buck or two and have the original master makers fold. I mean, where is the logic? Kill the master for a few bucks of discount by a pirate and then when the master maker is gone out of business what happens? The master is out and the pirate is out since there is nothing to pirate from. Not exactly the perfect symbiotic relationship!

This is close to what is happening to one of the best master makers I know of.

One guy puts his dreams in a box comes to the US, legally with his family, sets up shop and sees his dreams go under due to piracy... Just great. This is not what he thought the American dream was. Who am I to explain that with what I see. I had many hopes for www.dmold-modelworks.com and the powerhouse potential of this venture. It is irrelevant what I post here when he tells me that a huge chunk of his sales get pirated.

How sad.

I am really not sure for how long he will be here in this country.

He will not quit the business but he will not be at the source of where the aircraft are and take measurements and absorb them and compare plastic to metal.

Maybe it is me and I was hoping for but I had great dreams for us modelers.

Fotios

[Neo]

This is sad news but has he even mention on his site availability has been an issue and some folks got the pirated versions not because of cost but just because they where available.

I really home D-Mold makes it is product look amazing

Cheers

[drhornii]

I picked up a pirated wing fold set about 10 years ago, I did not know it was a fake until it came in. Guess that is why I got it so cheap...I did eventually get the real deal and am happy with the "OEM" results!

[Dave Williams]

This is sad news but has he even mention on his site availability has been an issue and some folks got the pirated versions not because of cost but just because they where available.

I really home D-Mold makes it is product look amazing

Cheers

True. Also, a lot of people probably don't know what's pirated and what isn't. Not everyone goes to these forums, and of those that do, not everyone has seen or will see a handful of specific threads posted in the literally tens of thousands of threads here. For a lot of people, they just find something on eBay that they want and buy it becasue it is available. Many may not have ever heard of D-Mold.

[USAFsparkchaser]

I just tried ordering 2 F-111 intakes and there are 0 left. Is he done doing stuff or will he make some more of these. I have 1 set and it is awsome. Man I hope he restocks those.

[fulcrum1]

I agree with what others have said. I think availability kicks alot of these niche resin makers in the arse along with promises for products that never pan out. I was told when I first started messing with resin and aftermarket is to buy when you see it and never pre-order.

[vince14]

There are three reasons why modellers buy pirated goods;

1) They are unaware that they're buying a pirated copy

2) They're aware, but the pirated copy is cheaper, or

3) They're aware it's pirated, but the originals are out of production or unavailable.

Vince

[madmanrick]

This is close to what is happening to one of the best master makers I know of.

One guy puts his dreams in a box comes to the US, legally with his family, sets up shop and sees his dreams go under due to piracy... Just great. This is not what he thought the American dream was. Who am I to explain that with what I see. I had many hopes for www.dmold-modelworks.com and the powerhouse potential of this venture. It is irrelevant what I post here when he tells me that a huge chunk of his sales get pirated.

How sad.

While obviously the fact that pirates are draining away D-Mold's sales is sad. The fact that he might allow a few bums to drive him out of business, is even sadder.

That having been said, I cannot for the life of me understand how these pirates are destroying his "American Dream?" He obviously has been a victim of pirates long before he packed up and moved here. I seriously doubt that if he moved to Timbuktwoistan that the pirates would give a ****, they'd still steal his work. So how are the two linked? There are just as many pirates willing to make copies of any decent product whether they be in China, Russia or the USA et al. So I seriously hope that Mr D-Mold did not leave his home country to travel all the way to the USA thinking he would get away from piracy. I would like to think he moved here to make a better life for himself and his family.

Rick

Edited November 10, 2011 by madmanrick

[Tricose]

What is the reason, I wonder, when modelers buy from pirates to save a buck or two and have the original master makers fold. I mean, where is the logic? Kill the master for a few bucks of discount by a pirate and then when the master maker is gone out of business what happens? The master is out and the pirate is out since there is nothing to pirate from. Not exactly the perfect symbiotic relationship!

This is close to what is happening to one of the best master makers I know of.

One guy puts his dreams in a box comes to the US, legally with his family, sets up shop and sees his dreams go under due to piracy... Just great. This is not what he thought the American dream was. Who am I to explain that with what I see. I had many hopes for www.dmold-modelworks.com and the powerhouse potential of this venture. It is irrelevant what I post here when he tells me that a huge chunk of his sales get pirated.

How sad.

I am really not sure for how long he will be here in this country.

He will not quit the business but he will not be at the source of where the aircraft are and take measurements and absorb them and compare plastic to metal.

Maybe it is me and I was hoping for but I had great dreams for us modelers.

Fotios

Fotios,

Honestly can you say that DMold after moving from Russia to the US is going to pack up and head back because of a "scandal" for lack of a better term? That's like saying General Motors will shut down production because they can't stop Japanese Imports. I understand DMold's rights have been tackled here. His work is incredible. I have several of his pieces. But to shut down, fold up the box and run away that is just wrong. To many people like what DMold does and what has done in the past. Why not start fresh!!

Make the best of the new venture. Stand up, dust himself off and start casting. If everyone worried about the other guy and what he does we would all be on ignoritall. Dmold has a opportunity here to show his craftmanship off and start popping out resin for kits that no one else has.

Its time to man-up and put this thing to bed.

DMold makes resin. Lets see some new resin!

Right guys!

My Two Cents!

Tricose

[Cyrus Tan]

Hi Fotios,

From my own personal experience, I was interested in purchasing his 1/48 Rafale intakes because he was the only one that made them. I was very close in giving up on finding a source for his product because of the lack of availability and the lack of a website. It was a bit frustrating to say the least. Thanks to the help of ARC member 'scotthldr' I was able to locate a couple of sets. However, I think others would have given up a lot sooner and just settled on a pirate copy due to availability and price. When aftermarket sets are out of production, this may actually encourage people to pirate a product if the demand is there. A good example of this is Paragon Design. I seen some pirated copies on Ebay a while back when they were OOP. I certainly do not agree with this practice, but it demonstrates what people are willing to do acquire a well sought out product. It's called capitalism - free enterprise.

I'm aware that Dimitri did some of the intake patterns for CE before they went belly up (1/48 F-4, F-18E/F, F-111, etc.) and know the quality of his work so price for me wasn't a big issue so long as it was within reason. I believe in the saying "you get what you pay for" but I also believe in the other saying "the most expensive is not necessarily the best". With that said, I do hope D-Mold continues to offer fine quality products and not give up so easily.

Just my 2 cents.

[k5ikl]

I guess I am a little behind about this thread. Did I miss an announcement somewhere

that D-Mold is folding and calling it quits? I did see the other two threads

about the pirated intakes etc so knew what was going on there.

Cheers,

Jerry

[RAIN]

I sure hope he does not fold but there are no guarantees in life. I purchased two F-4 intakes a couple of months ago and they are stellar. I do hope he makes some 1/48 Revell Eurofighter Typhoon intakes one day soon...

[Darren Roberts]

Dmitri can overcome the pirating problem by doing a couple simple things. The first is to build up stock. Then, contact Gordon at Sprue Brothers and set up a distribution partner. Sprue Brothers brings world-wide exposure. The shipping system is already in place. Is it worth a % off of retail? I sure do think so! Steel Beach would have been dead long ago if I hadn't gone through Gordon. The hassle of shipping is overwhelming if you're not set up for it.

[Benner]

dmold makes some great products, I hope he sticks around.

[speedlimit]

On a consumer point of view it also helps out if your competitively price wise.

Just an opinion.

Eric

[Marv]

I was so looking forward to buying his stuff for the Heller Connie, but now I'm stuck. I sure hope Dmitri sticks it out and continues with his D-Molds venture. I'll buy some stuff, for sure.

[scotthldr]

How much truth is there in this story Fotios?

Having had past dealings with Dmitri I know his reasons behind moving to the USA and I know that he isn't the guy to just give up when things get a little tough. Dmitri has been the victim of pirates for years, long before he moved to the US so this is nothing new. If he is thinking of shutting up shop them it is for other reasons.

[Dave Williams]

How much truth is there in this story Fotios?

I'm curious about this myself. It looks like he hasn't back here since he posted this twice in two forums.

I think Darren has it completely right. First, D-mold probably needs to build up stock. If certain items are constantly out of stock on his website, then people may eventually decide to go elsewhere instead of waiting forever. Second, his products need more exposure. There are probably a lot of people who have never heard of D-Mold (I know it's hard to believe, but not everyone who builds models hangs out at ARC), but a lot of people go on eBay to buy stuff

.

[Harold]

Dmitri can overcome the pirating problem by doing a couple simple things. The first is to build up stock. Then, contact Gordon at Sprue Brothers and set up a distribution partner. Sprue Brothers brings world-wide exposure. The shipping system is already in place. Is it worth a % off of retail? I sure do think so! Steel Beach would have been dead long ago if I hadn't gone through Gordon. The hassle of shipping is overwhelming if you're not set up for it.

What Darren says...

Get in touch with Gordon. Let Sprue take care of the marketing. Build up some stock and then start working on new projects. Maybe branch out a bit in interest.

It is an on going struggle to do the research, developing the masters and casting to re-stock.

Plus dealing with the worldwide economic problems.

However, that is just part of doing any kind of business.

Cheers,

Harold

Edited November 12, 2011 by Harold

[Zactoman]

It's called capitalism - free enterprise.

No, whether the parts are out of production or still available it is copyright infringement and theft.

Dmitri can overcome the pirating problem by doing a couple simple things. The first is to build up stock. Then, contact Gordon at Sprue Brothers and set up a distribution partner. Sprue Brothers brings world-wide exposure. The shipping system is already in place. Is it worth a % off of retail? I sure do think so! Steel Beach would have been dead long ago if I hadn't gone through Gordon. The hassle of shipping is overwhelming if you're not set up for it.

Unless Sprue Bros supplies the lawyers to take the pirates to court, I don’t understand how selling his product through them will prevent the piracy problem.

Yes it will get him more exposure and possibly more sales but at the expense of marking his product down for wholesale. What percentage is the markdown? 30-40%?

Molding and casting still takes the same amount of work and he may end up working a lot more hours for fewer dollars per hour.

It’s a trade off.

Until you can get over that hump to where you are selling enough product to hire someone to do your casting it is hard to knock off any percentage for wholesale, especially if this is Dimitri's day job (which I believe it is?).

No, it won’t help his keep products in-stock and available. In fact it could do the opposite if he’s having to cast up 10 or 20 sets of an item to stock Sprue Bros rather than 2-3 to fulfill an individual order.

If not having enough in stock at his website is a problem then he should take a few days and cast a bunch of stuff up. I try to keep a couple of each of my items in stock and replenish them as needed.

Shipping isn’t fun but it isn’t all that much work and doesn’t take much time. I keep boxes in stock print my postage online so there is never any waiting in line at the Post Office.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

If you look through the previous threads there are lots of claims made but not much proof.

There is a picture that clearly shows that the Rhino A-7 intake gear well is in fact the Aires gear well.

There are pictures of the Rhino F-18 exhausts and some pictures of the MK-1 Design exhausts that look the same.

There was a Rhino instruction sheet which clearly used Chuck's pictures without his permission.

I would encourage Dimitri to get ahold of some of the Rhino parts and take comparison pictures that absolutely, conclusively show that the Rhino parts are pirated.

Once he has clear, convincing pictures, he should post them on every modeling forum, as often as the name Rhino comes up, until everybody is aware of the piracy.

The more people who know, the more likely this guy will fail.

I haven't personally contacted Ebay but I would if I had seen absolutely convincing proof in the form of clear pictures.

I'd guess that lots of people would report him on Ebay if that proof was published.

Too bad lawyers are so expensive...

[Darren Roberts]

Unless Sprue Bros supplies the lawyers to take the pirates to court, I dont understand how selling his product through them will prevent the piracy problem.

Yes it will get him more exposure and possibly more sales but at the expense of marking his product down for wholesale. What percentage is the markdown? 30-40%?

Molding and casting still takes the same amount of work and he may end up working a lot more hours for fewer dollars per hour.

Its a trade off.

Until you can get over that hump to where you are selling enough product to hire someone to do your casting it is hard to knock off any percentage for wholesale, especially if this is Dimitri's day job (which I believe it is?).

No, it wont help his keep products in-stock and available. In fact it could do the opposite if hes having to cast up 10 or 20 sets of an item to stock Sprue Bros rather than 2-3 to fulfill an individual order.

If not having enough in stock at his website is a problem then he should take a few days and cast a bunch of stuff up. I try to keep a couple of each of my items in stock and replenish them as needed.

Shipping isnt fun but it isnt all that much work and doesnt take much time. I keep boxes in stock print my postage online so there is never any waiting in line at the Post Office.

The original post stated that pirated copies were running Dmitri out of business. Subsequent posts stated that it wasn't the pirated copies, but the lack of availability of product. That's what my opening was about. You are probably correct that the pirating won't stop. However, if there is easy availability of the product, then the pirating should decrease because of supply and demand.

If this is Dmitri's day job, then he needs to get into a new business. With nothing to sell, there's no money to be made. Look at it from this perspective. 40% is the standard wholesale discount. If I sell a $10 product for full retail on my own, I've made probably $7 after expenses. Plus, my market is very limited. Only a handful of people will have heard of me. Now, if I go through a distributor like Sprue Brothers, yes I lose that 40% and probably am only making around $3-4 for that same product. But here's the difference. In a week's time, I may only sell one item at full retail. But through a distributor with world-wide exposure, I may sell 5-6 of that same product. In the end, I've made at least double through a distributor than I would have trying to sell it on my own.

I'm a bit perplexed at the statement that keeping his products in-stock and available won't help him. Isn't that the whole point of him being in business? If not, than he's simply a made-to-order business, and unless you want to charge a whole bunch more than the item is worth, there will be no money made. This is a hobby, not fine furniture. Dmitri is an artist, but his market is the modeling community, which has proven fickle and cheap overall. If he truly wants to make a living at this, then he has to have mass market appeal and availability. Now, if all he's doing is making some extra cash on the side, than he can do business as he's doing it. Personally, I don't see any possible way someone could pay the bills casting resin parts for models. The market just isn't there to support it. It all depends on what you want to consider a good yearly salary. I can't imagine someone making $50K casting resin.

Just my thoughts on the subject. He's free to do whatever he wants.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Darren Roberts

[BadCop]

Okay, I'm not going to say anything about the morality of pirating the intellectual property of others - it's an indefensible position.

However, as has been discussed earlier and specifically mentioned by Cyrus Tan, besides basic dishonesty, a major reason that a lot of people buy pirated products is because they just can't find the genuine product easily available. Just looking at the facts here, it seems to me that the reason Dmolds isn't selling a lot of their products isn't because people are choosing cheaper pirated products - it's because it's too hard to get the product from the supplier. The best way that DMolds can attack that excuse for tolerating piracy is by making their products easily available through a reliable supplier. Sure some will still seek out cheaper pirated products, but that's one less excuse people can use to justify their immoral actions.

Basic human psychology is to think that we are all good people and if we do a 'bad' thing like buying a pirated product it is only because we didn't really have a choice to get it otherwise, and couldn't get the genuine stuff anyway so we're not denying the original maker a sale. Wrong I know but that's the way people think.

All of this brings up another question - is the piracy of it's products actually hurting DMold's sales? It appears to me that the products - when they are available - are in demand and sell out pretty quickly. There would be a better argument that piracy is destroying the company if they had received very few orders or held stock for an excessive amount of time. This doesn't make the fact that others are making money off his work legitimate, but it appears (from my own ignorant and uninformed point of view) the lack of profitability of the company is caused by the business model.

I know nothing about running a business, but it seems to me that cottage industries like resin production is one of the hardest ways to earn a living and I have great respect to the people like Dmitri and Zactoman who work so hard to deliver the best products, and I personally refuse to buy anything that I know to be pirated.

[Zactoman]

I'm a bit perplexed at the statement that keeping his products in-stock and available won't help him. Isn't that the whole point of him being in business?

You’ve misunderstood my statement (or I stated it wrong).

Yes, having parts in stock and available is an absolute must. Either he takes the time to cast enough for demand or he doesn’t and suffers for it.

My point: If he can’t keep 2-3 in stock at his own website, how will he keep 10-20 in stock at Sprue bros? He needs to take the time to cast enough for demand either way.

If not, than he's simply a made-to-order business, and unless you want to charge a whole bunch more than the item is worth, there will be no money made.

I often cast sets when I receive the orders, especially the large correction sets that fill 2 pressure pots each. I cast them the same night or the next day so that there is no delay in shipping.

Smaller sets like missiles or wheels can be ganged up with multiples cast at the same time so are easier to keep in stock and ready to ship.

It still takes the same amount of time to cast and package parts and I still make the same amount of money.

Look at it from this perspective. 40% is the standard wholesale discount. If I sell a $10 product for full retail on my own, I've made probably $7 after expenses. Plus, my market is very limited. Only a handful of people will have heard of me. Now, if I go through a distributor like Sprue Brothers, yes I lose that 40% and probably am only making around $3-4 for that same product. But here's the difference. In a week's time, I may only sell one item at full retail. But through a distributor with world-wide exposure, I may sell 5-6 of that same product. In the end, I've made at least double through a distributor than I would have trying to sell it on my own.

Like I said, it’s a trade off.

Since molding and casting is what takes the most time, you end up working more than twice as many hours to make the same amount of money.

If you are already having trouble keeping up with orders, then marking them down 40% isn’t going to help unless you can generate enough extra money to hire help with casting.

If you are doing this as a full time job and just making enough to survive, then taking that leap and cutting 40% off of profits in hope of expanding the business is a tough call.

However, if there is easy availability of the product, then the pirating should decrease because of supply and demand.

Not if they are readily available for $10 and the pirate is selling them for $8.

Remember that the pirate has 0 hours invested in researching and making the original patterns.

Dmitri is an artist, but his market is the modeling community, which has proven fickle and cheap overall. If he truly wants to make a living at this, then he has to have mass market appeal and availability. Now, if all he's doing is making some extra cash on the side, than he can do business as he's doing it. Personally, I don't see any possible way someone could pay the bills casting resin parts for models. The market just isn't there to support it. It all depends on what you want to consider a good yearly salary. I can't imagine someone making $50K casting resin.

Yes, the aftermarket business is not the best way to get rich and doing it full time can be difficult to say the least.

Having a pirate take even a small percentage of your profit away makes it even more difficult, perhaps even driving you out of the business...

Okay, I'm not going to say anything about the morality of pirating the intellectual property of others - it's an indefensible position.

Have you read some of the replies in this thread : http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=239521&st=0

I have great respect to the people like Dmitri and Zactoman who work so hard to deliver the best products, and I personally refuse to buy anything that I know to be pirated.

Add another beer to my tab when we next meet...

[Darren Roberts]

Why can't both a home website and a distributor be done? With going through a distributor, you lose the 40%, but you are paid for the product. So, if you cast 10-20 sets, they are the responsibility of the distributor to sell. You get paid for all the items that you've sent to them. I would think doing that would be a win-win. The only caveat would be that you'd have to sell items on your website for the same price as the distributor. That way no one is undercutting anyone else.

Fair point about the pirating. Please don't think I'm siding with them! I'm just think there are ways Dmitri can make it work. He needs to look at all options. Getting product to market is one of the most important things he can do. Exposure is another.

BTW, you have a great thing going. Keep it up!

[Zactoman]

Why can't both a home website and a distributor be done? With going through a distributor, you lose the 40%, but you are paid for the product. So, if you cast 10-20 sets, they are the responsibility of the distributor to sell. You get paid for all the items that you've sent to them. I would think doing that would be a win-win. The only caveat would be that you'd have to sell items on your website for the same price as the distributor. That way no one is undercutting anyone else.

Only big problem I could see is if the distributor decides to have a 20% off sale. You wouldn't be able to compete at your homepage without marking down your own prices and losing even more money.

This would be really painful if you just spent a full week or more filling an order for that distributor.