g0_command0 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8225756&c=AIR&s=TOP enjoy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PetarB Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 That's a surprising decision. The Harriers are beautiful aircraft though... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) :D, There's an Aussie (and NZ) bird called the swamp or marsh harrier. It's diet includes amongst other things insects. In this case could some of those insects be F/A-18D Hornets perchance? , Ross. Edited November 14, 2011 by ross blackford Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gary1701 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Gents, This deal had gone quiet for a while so was begining to hope it would not happen. I can't blame the USMC for taking advantage of our stupidity (hell, who wouldn't if that deal was on the table!), but if they're letting all the spares go for 50m dollars (it's not even pounds for christs sake), I dread to think how much the actual aircraft will be given away for. I thought the original plan was to just use them for spares, yet this article reads as if they are going to be flown by the USMC, and replacing the F/A-18D in part seems a little odd as well. Aren't these used largely in the FAC(A) role, with the two crew vital in that role? If you fancy some Typhoons, I gather the MoD will be looking for a customer for about 50 slightly used airframes in a couple of years, including all the airframes currently multi-role capable that were deployed over Libya. They're supposedly going to be 'obsolete'... Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 One thing to remember about the Marine Corps air wing is they have been trying to move entirely to a STOVL type fleet with rapid deployment capability for years with that being their ultimate goal. That is why they favored the Osprey over common helicopters. Ultimately, the VTOL capable F-35 is supposed to be the full replacement for Harrier and the F/A-18s, but with the F-35 delays, I am not surprised that they are looking to other options to keep the Harrier fleet going. The move makes sense in any event. As good as the F/A-18D is, it is still going to be chained either to a land base or an aircraft carrier and many USMC commanders are trying to get away from that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Jay, the Marines will be getting about 3 squadrons worth of F-35Cs ... So, they're not going to have a full STOVL force still ... Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graves_09 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Does this mean the planes will all have a funny accent? :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyman_1970 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think it's a great idea.......but I really like Harriers. I found it interesting the USMC wants to replace some Delta Hornets with Harriers, with the implication being the Deltas are nearing the end of their lives. I've yet to see any Delta squadrons deploy on a carrier which would lead to "trapping out" the airframe, so that seems odd to me. It will be very interesting to see how the USMC mods or doesn't mod the RAF birds for their usage..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfgun33 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I like the idea. It's not like the British are using them. What's it gonna take to get them up to US Specs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinro Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 a move expected to help the Marines operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters Aren't the Legacy Hornets and Harriers around the same age? I also didn't realize 28 years was considered "aging" :unsure: Does this mean the planes will all have a funny accent? I can already imagine B****ing Betty :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyman_1970 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Aren't the Legacy Hornets and Harriers around the same age? I also didn't realize 28 years was considered "aging" :unsure: Well the Hornets have "traps" on them and a vertical or short landing doesn't put near the stress on the airframe that a trap does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 This is the latest news as of today....the reports states that they{Harriers } will be stripped of British gear and replaced with Marines Gear. http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16110944 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markmarples Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 This is the latest news as of today....the reports states that they{Harriers } will be stripped of British gear and replaced with Marines Gear. http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16110944 so the US are backdating them then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinro Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Well the Hornets have "traps" on them and a vertical or short landing doesn't put near the stress on the airframe that a trap does. I thought only the Navy did traps....Marines utilize standard runways, no? So no trapping would be on Marine's Hornets' airframes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Cartwright Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I thought only the Navy did traps....Marines utilize standard runways, no? So no trapping would be on Marine's Hornets' airframes... The Marines need to keep the ability to trap and therefore practice it. They also deploy on carriers from time to time. They probably don't have as much trap wear and tear as the Navy jets, but they'd definitely have some. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
g0_command0 Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 I forgot what it was called but the pilot i was talking to said jets had two types of hours on them? and the -D jets were really high in one and not the other. Thats why you see -D squadrons flying a few -C birds. dont quote me though, thats what a VMFA-232 pilot told me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sunliner Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I wouldn't think trap hours would be a huge deal with the Deltas. I wonder about fatigue with the center barrel assembly ? I understand that is a big deal with Canadian Hornets due to having to taxi long distances. -Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thatguy96 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The only person saying in this article that they'll be used to replace F/A-18Ds is "Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier." Hardly an official position. While I think Nordeen's speculation that it wouldn't be cost-effective to refit the British aircraft with USMC systems, cost-effective isn't always a concern of the US military. The purpose of this buy is to make sure that Marine aviation can present itself as unique compared to Naval aviation until some results can be squeezed out of the F-35B. The US Navy and the USMC are still buying new F/A-18 types in the meantime (the F-35B has delayed the JSF program so much that the US Navy has to do something before the F-35C comes on line), so the suggestion that these aircraft would be replacing older F/A-18 variants seems silly to me. This buy is entirely because of the current inability of the F-35B to perform as expected and the fact that since the introduction of the AV-8 type in the USMC, that service has put all its eggs in one basket with regards to safeguarding its roles and missions. Without the STOVL capability, Marine aviation becomes more or less Marine pilots performing Naval aviation roles, leaving it open to accusations of costly and unnecessary redundancy. Hardly something you want in these trying times if you're looking to hold on to your piece of the pie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) The US Navy and the USMC are still buying new F/A-18 types in the meantime (the F-35B has delayed the JSF program so much that the US Navy has to do something before the F-35C comes on line), so the suggestion that these aircraft would be replacing older F/A-18 variants seems silly to me. US Navy yes, but AFAIK the USMC received its last new Hornets somewhere in the late nineties (D models for AW sqns). This buy is entirely because of the current inability of the F-35B to perform as expected and the fact that since the introduction of the AV-8 type in the USMC, that service has put all its eggs in one basket with regards to safeguarding its roles and missions. Without the STOVL capability, Marine aviation becomes more or less Marine pilots performing Naval aviation roles, leaving it open to accusations of costly and unnecessary redundancy. Hardly something you want in these trying times if you're looking to hold on to your piece of the pie. The USMC operates various types of F/A-18 and the AV-8, so didn't put all its eggs in one basket. And what about helicopters like the Cobra, UH-1Y, CH-53 and the MV-22? Typical USMC aircraft for USMC tasks. I believe the 'new' Harriers might be used to replace some of the F/A-18A and older F/A-18C aircraft in service with some of the units at Beaufort and Miramar. Replacing the F/A-18Ds, a few of which are newer than the oldest Super Hornets, doesn't make that much sense to me. Replacing the older A models does! Edited November 17, 2011 by pollie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paolo Maglio Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Replacing the F/A-18Ds, a few of which are newer than the oldest Super Hornets, doesn't make that much sense to me. Replacing the older A models does! D- Honets were use a lot during wars in the Gulf and Kosovo/Serbia, often they flew at low level serving as FAST-FAC so many of those aiframes are near the end of their fatigue life while older A+ and C Hornets are safer since also used in air-to-air and in hi-low-hi missions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thatguy96 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 US Navy yes, but AFAIK the USMC received its last new Hornets somewhere in the late nineties (D models for AW sqns). The basic understanding is that since the US Navy is getting more F/A-18s because of the delays in the F-35C, there will be some trickle down to the USMC. The USMC has generally been percieved as being reticent to upgrade its own F/A-18 fleet because of concerns about what that might do to the planned F-35B buys. The USMC operates various types of F/A-18 and the AV-8, so didn't put all its eggs in one basket. In terms of fixed wing aviation, the USMC very much put its eggs in one basket with the AV-8. They even got an entire class of ships more or less designed around the capability. If Marine fixed wing aviation was limited to the F/A-18 and a non-STOVL variant of the F-35, then it would not be long before people make the comments about redundancy that I already mentioned. There's already some of that with regards to the use of Marine pilots in Carrier Air Wings. Marine aviation is defined by the fact that it maintains its own organic fixed wing capability, unlike the US Army. To become reliant on the US Navy for things other than rotary wing aviation (and the Osprey) and to lose that chunk of budget is not something the USMC is ready to accept. The USMC clearly views the fate of fixed-wing Marine aviation as the slippery slope to people wondering why the US needs 2 Armies and what purpose the Marines in its current guise serves (essentially equivalent in total manpower to all the other marine corps/naval infantry elements in the world combined). I believe the 'new' Harriers might be used to replace some of the F/A-18A and older F/A-18C aircraft in service with some of the units at Beaufort and Miramar. Replacing the F/A-18Ds, a few of which are newer than the oldest Super Hornets, doesn't make that much sense to me. Replacing the older A models does! With the total number of AV-8Bs delivered to the USMC being a little over 300, the idea that a fleet of 70 or so airframes (only 40 of which are reportedly in flying condition) would be used to replace a different type of aircraft would be surprising to me. I think its much more likely these will be used as a source of spare parts to help the aging AV-8B fleet going. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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