Vince Hoffmann Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Hello folks, long time lurker, first time post to this discussion board. I know there are seveal "Atlantis" builds here, and I'd like to add another. This model will be a post-STS 86 model showing all of the upgrades. I have not chosen a flight to represent and since the model will be built with the bay doors open, I'm limited to only a few flights with good reference photos of the cargo flown. I've had the Monogram shuttle model in my closet for over 14 years and I finally got around to builidng it. I think part of my problem was knowing that the project was/is monumental given all of the problems with the kit. I started the model about 3 months ago and I had a major turning point last week... the cockpit and cargo bay were finally installed. But I'll backtrack to the beginning of the build. The model has no vernier thrusters, they're actually molded as slight indentations, with some actually protruding proud of the fuselage. After the fuselage was glued together, all of the nose thrusters were drilled out and replaced with plastic tube with the inside diameter very close to scale (according to the Mk 1 eyeball). The thrusters were closed at one end by heating and pulling. This was done to permanently close off the inside of the tube so epoxy putty (to come later) wouln't get pushed into the model. After the tubes were installed and aligned, they were trimmed flush and a dab of epoxy putty put into each one and formed with the back of a paint brush to form the conical nozzle. The rods were used to fine tune the nozzle alignment. At this point, the thrusters were faired with glazing putty and fine sandpaper to the shape of the fuselage. Edited November 27, 2011 by Vince Hoffmann Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) oops, double post! Edited November 27, 2011 by Vince Hoffmann Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Correcting the canopy windscreen was a big issue, and unfortunately, this is also where the build goes off course in the accuracy department. My fix still ended up with windows that are slightly large, but I'm content with the results. Close examination of photos show that the forward and middle windows have curved tops, and the bottom sill follows the geometry of the fuselage. The third window has straight sides and the bottom also follows the fuselage geometry. The PE set I purchased from Real Space Models was not accurate. The two forward windows were not the correct shape and the side windows would end up at the wrong angle when the piece was installed. This was a bit frustrating so I decided to re-shape the windows on my own. Based on the fuselage geometry and photo comparisons, I drew the outline of the windows onto the kit windscreen parts and blocked out the window openings with .030 plastic strip. The plastic was then carefully shaped with files. Edited November 27, 2011 by Vince Hoffmann Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Vince, Welcome to the Real Space modeling board! It looks like you are off to a great start. The windows look very nice in shape and the thrusters are a big improvement over kit's thrusters. Edited November 27, 2011 by crowe-t Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks crowe! Here are some images of the fuselage assembly and fairing. The Monogram wings are molded separately from the fuselage and do not align easily with the fuselage bottom, and the gear bay doors are a horrible fit. Once the parts were glued together, I noticed that because the plastic was so thin, the plastic was quite flexible and would not fair properly. I resolved this by filling the botom of the fuselage with polyurethane resin, which gave the fuselage and wing asemblies an acceptable amount of rigidity. The second of three successive applications of putty and sanding with a 6" random orbital sander with 220 grit sandpaper. It may sound like overkill, but this was an excellent way to sand and fair the underside. The landing gear doors were the worst offenders. The wings were warped around the openings, and the doors were not molded in the proper shape to sit flush. The results are superb! At this point, the overhead windows are installed using a PE aftermarket piece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Will you be adding tiles to the model? I prefer scribbing the tiles on instead of decals. For example my model of Challenger http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2011/331/c/c/challenger_orbiter_by_onigojirakaiju-d4hgaiq.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Vince, The orbital sander seems to be the way to go. Excellent work on the bottom. Will you be using tile decals for the bottom? BTW, which version is this kit? I have one of the original 'Young Astronauts' release, yet to be built. Mike. Edited November 28, 2011 by crowe-t Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Off to a great start Vince! The windows are a vast improvement over the kits and of course the nozzles are TONS better than what was there...or rather not there. I'm doing mine pre-launch so luckily don't have to worry about them. Of course you're doing payload bay open so that does make another part of the kit a little easier as I am finding the payload doors are a MAJOR pain getting nice and smooth. As far as payloads, if you need a little further reference you could check out this site http://www.axmpaperspacescalemodels.com/ He has paper models of all payloads. While maybe not as detailed as some, it's a great starting point for reference. Keep the progress coming! Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jetplane Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi Vince, Nice build and showing how to correct the front RCS Thrusters Thanks for sharing mate... :D George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Last time I added thrusters to a Monogram kit, after making the openings, I filled them with epoxy putty and pressed a sharpened pencil in them to shape the insides nice while the putty was still soft. It worked like a charm. This method looks pretty good too though (albeit possibly a little more labor intensive, but with excellent results). This window fix looks pretty cool! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thanks guys! Jay, I did the same as you did with the epoxy putty, only I used the end of a paintbrush to get the conical shape inside. My next step in this model was to complete the cockpit, since it had to go in before the cargo bay. The kit cockpit has problems, but I'm beginning to sound like a broken record. The console shroud, side panels, rear panels, etc... are all the wrong shape. So instead of entirely scratchbuilding the whole thing, I decided to just concentrate on the most obvious areas. The console shroud was extended about 3mm, a partial bulkhead was added just behind the pilot and copilot positions, and the rear consoles were cut at the bottom and reshaped to allow for the two access passages to the lower deck. The main console was cut out entirely and a new piece inserted to give the proper depth between it and the center console. Custom decals are made from photos of the rebuilt cockpit. I did not detail all areas of the cockpit and the paint is very basic, but from what you can see through the windows, it looks good. I think I spent an entire weekend scanning, formatting and sizing the various consoles. What a chore, but the results look great! The finished cockpit includes scratchbuilt heads up displays made from .010 plastic and clear stock, glued together with white glue. You may also notice the new cargo bay door latches attached to the bulkhead. Here's a light test shot of the interior through the front and rear windows. I didn't use the kit pieces for the windows, instead I used clear PETG plastic I use for vacuum forming glued in place with epoxy.A single 1.6v LED is glued to the ceiling to light the area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Vince, Using the photos for the consoles in the cockpit is a great idea. Where did you find those pictures? The few modifications you made to the cockpit make a difference. As you said it's more then enough for the little bit you'll see through the windows. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 This is looking good Vince! The sanding of the belly is a great idea. I've always been a little timid in taking off TOO much material, but your seams are gone. Didja use a couple grits of sandpaper? The new windows are gonna look fine too. It's too bad RealSpace's decals aren't accurate. The stretched tubing for the RCS, good stuff. Are ya thinking of thinning the walls of the thrusters a bit? The cockpit looks great! I even noticed the mid-deck access 'holes' that you've cut out. And those HUD's ... :D And will this be Payload Bay doors open? I'm curious as to why you chose to fill it with resin material rather than just use the kit's Payload Bay? That kit part seems to strengthen out the fuselage nicely. And I realize you're an SSM kinda guy, and have probably been around the block a few times, but did you know that Fisher Model came out with an aftermarket SSME package? You've already included some nice detailing Vince, I can't wait to see more! Keep 'em coming ... and thanx for the pix! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jetplane Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 OMG..!! That's a very incredible cockpit detailing..and with the HUDs in place, this is one of the best 1/72 Shuttle cockpit I've seen this far. Keep it going..I'm sure the payload details will look awesome too. Shuttle modelling madness has gone high-tech and I see lots of folks doing every possible detailing to the model both in 1/144 and 1/72 for accuracy's sake. George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thaks for the compliments guys! Pete, the kit payload bay was discarded in favor of the RSM bay. But the RSM bay isn't stiff enough to straighten the badly warped fuselage sides.. this fix will come in a later update :D The resin in the bottom of the fuselage was strictly to provide stiffness for bottom sanding and does not interfere with the other parts. Here are a couple of photos of the tail reconstruction: The areas above and below the air brake are cut out and reshaped with plastic and epoxy putty. This was something I did after the halves were glued together, which greatly increased the difficulty, but with patience, the results turned out good. The bottom is re-cut and the drogue chute housing is built using .020 plastic and epoxy putty. There are a couple of more details to be added to the tail, but at this point, its ready to be attached to the fuselage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mriccio Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi Vince, and welcome to the Forum. Your build is turning out really nice, and the cockpit looks simply fantastic. You are on your way to making a fabulous model. Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Will you be adding the mid deck to this model? Also for the forward windows will there be an inner set just behind the kit's? Well in photos you can see this clearly and even the inner frame for the crew module. For example http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/STS-131_RPM_Discovery%27s_crew_cabin.jpg http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2011/07/21/135034-a-technician-works-in-the-crew-cabin-of-the-space-shuttle-atlantis-aft.jpg Edited December 1, 2011 by MarkD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Hi MarkD Nope. No mid deck and no inner set of windows. I drew the line and re-building the cockpit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 You did a nice job with that pit. I admit the Monogram pit isn't the most accurate, but it looks the part when painted up right. Scounging an overhead panel for the ceiling from a Revell kit might not be a bad idea either. Do you plan to put any crew figures in the cockpit? Reason being is they make excellent sight line blockers and they can draw attention so nobody looks at the rest of the pit as much (especially with a lit cockpit). You did a nice job on the bottom. The seams really aren't too bad down there as long as the model is glued together well. I made sure on my last two orbiters to add some reinforcement spine plates to the bottom seam so I didn't get any split out problems. It worked like a charm when I did the filling and sanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jetplane Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 This 1/72 shuttle is progressing well. Outstanding cockpit detailing. but I wonder why cut the rudder ends? is there something wrong with it? I'll be watching this build with interest.looks very awesome coming this far! This really encourage me to take out my Monogram shuttle and start working on her..! :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 but I wonder why cut the rudder ends? is there something wrong with it? Here is my reference for the tail. Upon further investigation of other photos, the tail appears to be closed in these areas, but I cannot identify what it is. If anyone has better pictures, I would greatly appreciate it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 It's nice to a 1/72 space shuttle build for a change. Vince, your doing some good work here my man. Keep up the good work!! Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Hiya Vince ... it looks like you're not taking the tiles' thickness into consideration. Here's a ref pic for ya. Go to the HiRez and zoom in. http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm You'll hafta put in "Atlantis" in the Categories' Space Shuttle field on the Right hand side, and this image is on Page 4 at the bottom. Photo KSC-2011-6534 There's a few views of the Tail / Rudder there Hope this helps. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 Looks like I'll be rebuilding part of the rudder this weekend! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vince Hoffmann Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Another big problem area of this kit are the OMS pods. The pods are too narrow and none of the RCS thrusters are indicated. I wasn't going to bother trying to fix these, having told my wife that I'm drawing the line "there"... but the more I stared at the model, the more I wanted to make an attempt as making them right. As it turns out, this was a pretty easy fix using plastic sheet and bondo. The pods are straight with the centerline of the orbiter, but the kit pods actually curve back inward and the side surfaces do not face perpendicular. The sides of the pods need about 1/8" of additional width, as well as straightening. The side, rear and bottom surfaces of the RCS nozzles are replaced with .020 sheet styrene, attached with liquid cement and CA and the edges faired with glazing putty. Bondo is mixed up and spread onto the OMS behind the RCS in an elliptical area (you can see the lines in one of the photos). This ellipse was determined by holding a straight edge against the new RCS pieces, and noting where the curvature of the OMS fell away from the straight edge. This is not entirely accurate as the curve is a parabola coming off the RCS nozzles to the leading edge of the OMS pod, but I don't have a profile gauge fine enough for this job. The final step was shaping the triangular piece that attaches to the underside of the OMS pods. The rear nozzles will be installed later, after the tile patterns are applied. Edited December 3, 2011 by Vince Hoffmann Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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