Eduard MiG-21 bis and MF in parallel

[RobertS]

Hi Gabor,

I think you missed my point here >

I know the details were different for the stenciling of the MiG-21 bis in its original Russian configuration and the one later applied to the Hungarian AF aircraft.

I say - the original Soviet stencilling was a bit different on all HuAF MiG-21bis.

This small area behind the canopy is one sample only >

HuAF '6305' MiG-21bis 75AP 75046305 in 1984

HuAF '6145' MiG-21bis 75AP 75046145 in 1984

Nothing really special, simply there were no strict standard for the Soviet stencilling.

But probably you are in a very comfortable situation from this aspect >

I have seen the original factory materials on the MiG-21 bis stencils both in its original Russian form and the Hungarian.

In this process a complete documentation of the first aircraft was also made including all the original Russian stencils. This was translated into Hungarian and a new map prepared for the stencils to be put in the exact place of the Russian ones.

Because - If I understand you right - you want to build a replica of that(?) HuAF MiG-21bis, which was the base for that stencilling-map at the first MiG-21bis overhaul in Hungary.

[vesthepes]

Very interesting thread, I really appreciate your work and research so far. Good luck with the build.

[ya-gabor]

Hi All!

Here is a little more on those bulges over the wheel wells. The "silver" one is on an MF. Note that the panel to the right end of the bulge was a reinforcement on only this particular aircraft. It had a hard landing, which broke its back, repairs were made to the aircraft but it was retired with out any further flights and moved to a training school. The camouflaged example is the same area on the other side (right side) of a MiG-21 bis aircraft. The seamless blending of the bulge into the fuselage is clearly visible, this is waht I tried to reproduce with some superglue.

Here is the bulge on the MF

and the bis

More soon. And please, lets build some kits and less arguing.

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Here is a bit more of MiG-21 building. This is infact a tripple build with the tiny 144 scale Eduard MF also on the table. Just a sidetrack but it needs very little place and fun to build. At a recent modeling show in Bratislava in the neighbouring Slovakia I have found some excellent photoetched sets from Brengun for the 144 scale aircraft, one for the ground accessories and the other one is a detail set for the kit. The two were sold for 10 Euros from the manufacturer.

Just as the kit they are also fun to do. I did some of the covers, the ladder and the wheel chocks. For the intake cover the base ring was put on the other way around, since it has a thin edge to stay on the aircraft and also the excentric locks are visible when put down on the ground near the aircraft (as I plan to do). The handles for the locks will be glued to the other (front) side with no problem.

Fun, fun, fun. :D

Now back to some serious staff with the 48 scale. . .

Best regards

Gabor

[Aigore]

Gosh, that´s tiny...using an electron microscope are you?

[ya-gabor]

Gosh, that´s tiny...using an electron microscope are you?

Hi Aigore,

Well not exactly. :blink: The hands are still steady and I have a magnifier glasses so there is no problem. It is tiny but just as any other small detail that one would use on a 72nd or 48th scale kit. It is also fun! :D I can take around with me the kit in a small Philadelphia soft chees box and when there is a little time, do some work on it. (Yes, the chees keeps it from moving around in the box! :) :D :) )

This is my first 144 kit, only because it has almost all the details that they put into the big 48 MF kit. The mistakes are the same, this is also a late production version. Some conversion here too and with the added photoetched details it should be good. There are already two Hungarian manufacturers making 144 scale decals to go with it. Now I am looking for the full stenciling in Hungarian language . . . :D :D :D

Best regards,

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Good and sunny day to All, at least here in Budapest.

Here is some of the work on that 144 scale kit. It is a late model MiG-21 MF just as the 48th version, they simply took the 3D data and converted it to 144 scale, making some simplification to the brakedown of the parts. The surface details on the kit are very nice. Just as with the 48th MF I want it to be as authentic as it is possible in 144 scale. Had a look at what could be done.

The cut out on the engine exhaust sides were corrected. As it is shown on the real aircraft they are different, you can say it is a marginal difference but it is visible both on the real aircraft and on the kits, which ever scale it is. This is not a one off but the cut out on the exhaust was smaller on all the MF's we had. They were from the main production batch of the Type 96A or MF if you would prefer.

This is the cut out on the MiG-21 MF:

And this is the cut out on the MiG-21 bis and late model MF's as used by the Czechslovak AF. It could be also on other Air Forces MF's but I did not have a look at all of them. After all I am just building a Hungarian version.

A suitable diameter Evergreen tube was used to cut a rough part and glued in place with superglue.

After drying it was sanded to the right cross section to fit the fuselage contours. Only after this was it cut to size, about half of the original cutout.

There are two panel lines missing on each side of the bottom on the last two rings of the fuselage. The model producer simply forgot about them. The work described above is applicable for both the 144 and the 48th scale MiG-21 MF kit. On the bis kit only the panel lines were added. Actualy on the 48th scale kits it was not an engraved panel line but a weld line glued in place. The after rings of the fuselage are made on the real aircraft from heat resistant steel in three sections welded together. I did not try to do the weld line in 144 scale, sorry about this poor craftsmanship. :wacko:

At the same time as the cutouts were corrected I also thinned down the trailing edge of the exhaust.

On the back of the aircraft the saddle tank is missing the panel line identifying its after end (on the 144 scale). This was scribed and polished. The small intake on top of the saddle tank was cut off since it was too big and in the way to sand and polish the surface to a perfect finish after glueing together the two halves of the tank.

More soon.

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Question was raised concerning the forward radio compartment of the MF aircraft. So here is something completely different from the things so far. Hope this is of some help to someone doing some more details in this MF program. The Czech WWP book has some further excellent detail on this.

I have to say that everything is there in this radio bay with the only exception of decoder for the IFF system. It was a small silver box on the right hand side (the empty place is just visible on the photo) with a red rhomb on its top as a warning for it since it had an explosive devise inside to destroy the code for the IFF. Actually it was a tiny explosive that had all the connecting wires around it. When detonated it messed up the wires so it was not possible to find out which one was connected to where. Perfectly sufficient.

In the mean time work is on for the engine area of the MiG-21 MF and some work on the cockpit too. Just as a continuation of the surface works for both the MF and the bis.

Best regards

Gabor

Edited December 14, 2011 by ya-gabor

[RobertS]

Question was raised concerning the forward radio compartment of the MF aircraft. So here is something completely different from the things so far. Hope this is of some help to someone doing some more details in this MF program. The Czech WWP book has some further excellent detail on this.

I have to say that everything is there in this radio bay with the only exception of decoder for the IFF system. It was a small silver box on the right hand side (the empty place is just visible on the photo)

The radio bay in operational MF's with the IFF decoder in mid '80s >

HuAF 8114 - 968114

HuAF 8115 - 968115

Only for perfectionists <_<

The 'tray' for the IFF box >

Edited December 14, 2011 by RobertS

[ya-gabor]

A Friendly Reminder

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Best regards

Gabor

[Berkut]

A Friendly Reminder

Copyrighted Material:

You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or ARC/ARC Forums.

Best regards

Gabor

In Internet age, to have a good discussion, that is plain out impossible.

[Griffin]

Tanks Gabor to share Your research and material (but not so easy to follow, for a non specialist of the Mig 21 familly),it will be very helpfull.

That's fine modeling and dedication to detail.

Those 1/144 model and photoetched fret are impressive.

[ya-gabor]

Tanks Gabor to share Your research and material (but not so easy to follow, for a non specialist of the Mig 21 familly),it will be very helpfull.

Hi Griffin,

Thanks. I know it is not easy to follow since there are three kits on the table at the same time. The thing is that they are all the same (OK we all know about Gabor's nose :) , so they are not the same exactly) so most of the things that I point too are applicable to each of them. I try to show as I go along with the building but the research is also continuous so there are breaks into this direction too.

Here is a little more on the R-13 engine for the MF kit. Work is on with the Brassin engine set but since there was nothing for the 144 scale version I had to do it myself. The design was made for the afterburner flame holder ring and the central part of the engines very end (it is actualy the firing system that ignites the afterburner). Here is the flame holder ring.

More on the engine a bit later on. The Brassin flame holder ring is also almost ready, more on this too, soon. Some attention was turned towards the wings of the 144 scale kit. Here I cut off the plastic aerodynamic fences. They were too thick so a decison was made to replace them with a home made version. All this before I found the Brengun photoetched set, so now I know that it will most probably the etched fences.

Before puting them in place I will have to add the reinforcement plates on the wing tips. These were put on the wings at the factory but I believe that in some cases they were retrofitted to some of the earlier aircaft. There were several plates put on the wing tip both on top and on the bottom. An overhaul addition was the triangular shaped reinforcement on the flaps. They were used only if needed, based on damage inspection. The tiangles were in some cases used both on the upper and lower surface, or just one side and not always simetrically on both wings. One has to look at the given aircraft in question. For the 144 scale kit the reinforcements were imitated with a layer of paint applied in the exact area. Only after this was it possible to add the aerodynamic fences. But while on the wings, the flap actuator covers were a bit refined, holes drilled for the landing lights. On top surface the tipical oval panels were sribed, on the real aircraft they are there to inspect the hermetic fit of the wing fuel tanks. The small vents on the side of the fuselage (just above the main airbrake) were cut off. I will replace them later on with ones from streched sprue.

The gunbay lower door was repositioned (the old lines filled with superglue) and rescribed further up the side, since the one on the kit corresponds to that on the late models and the bis aircraft. The scribed lines still need some cleaning before they are final.

Thats about it for today.

More soon and have a nice weekend with lots of model building! I know Xmas is around the corner but still . . .

Best regards

Gabor

Edited December 16, 2011 by ya-gabor

[kfmut]

Hello Gabor!

I've seen some of your great comments and terrific photos on subject in main Eduards Mig-21 thread here on ARC, thank you for such valuable input. But I'm really curiously how do you plan to correct nose shape problem on MiG-21bis? Looks like if you just chop off forward 10.5mm(500mm/48, place where - as you noticed - nose shape starts differ on bis and MF ) nose portion and replace it with correct one you will get negative curvature break on sides of fuselage nose, which would be very hard to correct.

Best regards,

Maksim

Edited December 29, 2011 by kfmut

[ya-gabor]

Hello to everyone, and all the best wishes in the new year!

Hi kfmut,

Yes, the plan is to do a brand new nose section. Cut the old one off and graft the new version on. Yes, it will not be an easy job and this is why I would have expected the manufacturer to do this job! It is far easier to do a new fuselage together with a new nose to avoid the the problems with the fit of the new nose.

I am not to happy to have to do this but there is no alternative to this. So the new year starts with a new nose and it will not be Gabor's nose but a correct scale nose in 48th scale of the real MiG-21 bis. Apart from the nose form there are small surface details that need to be corrected. Have you seen the underside of the nose????

Best wishes

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Hi to everyone.

Sorry for neglecting the MiG-21 subject in the last 5-7 weeks. The reason is simple, some family problems and no time for modelling. Just some background work and research in my photo archive. Hope to be back on the track soon.

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Hello everyone,

I know it is a bit of an off topic but still:

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

With time she will be made into a very tasty stew! OK OK Just kidding.

As for the MiG-21 MF, bis and the tiny 144 one there is some progress on them so soon I should report on it. There is also work on resin extras, having looked at my MiG-19 build from all those years ago made my appetite for some nose jobs . . .

Best regards

Gabor

[Malaquias]

I like tis aircraft very much... I'll follow this assembly to learn how to details better my works

[ya-gabor]

So it has been some time since my last post concerned with building the MiG-21 kits. Lots of other things happened since then but lots of research also in the MiG-21 direction. One of them was in connection with the exact colour for all the “radio transparent” panels on the aircraft like the nose cone and all the other dielectric panels. The nose cone, which is not made of plywood as stated by Hans Heiri Stapfer in his Squadron Signal Walk Around (simply stupid) but a sandwich of several layers of glass fibre and honeycomb in between. I have seen some archive photos which have shown some amazing colours to the nose cone that I could not believe. Then I found the original nosecones as removed from the MF on overhaul, they are standing side by side and yes, those colours are all original as flown in the Hungarian AF. So as always research your subject before committing to any colour, that is of course only if you want an authentic reproduction of an aircraft in one particular time of its life.

The colour usually associated with the dielectric panels on the MiG-21's is the one on the nose cone in the centre, partially hidden by the outer small crowd of other nosecones.

The reason for the differing colours is that the aircraft went through several mid term overhauls and general overhauls. The nose cones were taken off, examined for damage, if needed the damage was repaired, sanded and repainted. Here was the point that only available paint could be used. The Russians did provide a very wide range of repair material, spare parts and such but the paint was not one of them. The paint came from local paint suppliers and in those days it was often the case that only one or other shade of green was available (which was out of stock by the next time the aircraft was in the overhaul facility) so you had a fairly wide variation of shades as show on the photo.

On the second photo you have a line up of nose cones and the RP-21 radar as removed from a dozen of scraped MiG-21MF’s. Here once again you have a fairly wide (sure not so prominent as above) range of colours.

More soon.

Best regards

Gabor

Edited June 23, 2012 by ya-gabor

[Pal]

Szia Gábor!

Thank you for the photos it is really good to see how many different shades of green had been used and most of all next to each other. I waz amazed by the very interesting, almost turquoise blue colour of the MiG-21 F13 at the museum of the Szolnok AFB. Regardless of the age of the airplane the inner part of the center body is always protected from the harsh elements and the sunshine so with a good assumption the original colour can be observed. You can keep the photos coming...

Cheers,

Pali

[Litvyak]

The variation is very interesting indeed!

I think there are two lessons to deduce from this: research your subject thoroughly, or if there's no info... you're not wrong. ;)

[ya-gabor]

or if there's no info... you're not wrong. ;)

:D :D :D

[ya-gabor]

Some more research into that radom green colour

In the previous post I had a few of the nose cons and the respective “radar transparent†green colour for the antenna panels on the MiG-21. Most of them were repainted on overhaul. But what was the original colour used by the factory building the Migs all those years ago? As always the best thing is to consult with the original colour. No guessing from dubious photos, faded memories of former crews. For the original colour I used a brand new, factory fresh nose cone, the antenna cover on the vertical tail top but since both were “fairly†big I also used a smaller panel also from the tail. Each of them factory fresh replacement parts used during the overhaul, in this case they were never built on to the real aircraft but stayed covered in original Russian factory brown paper on the shelf in the overhaul warehouse. So the colour little changed apart from some ageing, still it is far, far better and more authentic than any other source.

While we are here. The fin tip for the MF kit will have to be corrected ( I will do it anyway, anyone else is free to do it or not). The tail unit piece shown below was used last year to point out to Eduard designers that they got the top of the fin completely wrong. It was represented in plastic on the “first generation†Eduard MiG-21 MF and SMT kits as a blade which only widens slightly at the very end of the fin top.

In reality only the front of the panel has a sharp edge (looking in direction of flight) after that it widens and the top is round with a considerable radius, in fact the after end of the green panel is the widest point of the fin top and it starts to narrow toward the back. One can see this only from the top or if you have a closer look at the panel itself. Fortunately the “help†was in time and the fin top was changed on the MiG-21bis kit.

How about the colour? The closest colour that I could find on the Federal Standard scale was 24110 and even then I would add a spot of 24062 to it to make it a bit darker and deeper green. In reality these glass fiber panels are almost glossy in finish so it should be somewhere between the 24 and the 14.

Now the more difficult task is to find a similar or corresponding modeling colour or mix one which matches the original example on the workbench.

One note the “radom colour†is not the same as the green used on the wheels. Please see the comparison photo of the antenna piece and once again a factory fresh wheel panel.

More soon

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

Yes, I know it is not the radom colour, but yesterday at an open day I took this photo of the MiG-21 bis cockpit. The aircraft has been stored in open for more than a decade and as you can see it has taken its toll on it. The extremely dirty seat cushion shows that it has been used for “joy rides†by who ever came along. Sad to see the headrest in this state.

I know its not much but it could be of some help in modeling that MiG-21 (I am sure lots of you are doing the Academy one at the moment :D :D :D ).

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

At last some model building of the 48th scale version. OK, it was prompted by the arrival on my desk of the latest Master product from Poland. It is the pitot probe for the MF (and M, SM) versions. As far as I know the one for the bis is shortly to follow (it has a different PVD on the front of it in comparison to the one which arrived yesterday). I had to get my hands on this item and a very fast assembly followed. Well there is not much to do apart from cutting out the DUAS vanes (they provide data for the gun sight on AOA vertical and horizontal) from the small photo etched sheet. The parts are very small and so the manufacturer has provided six vanes instead of the needed four. Well you never know . . . :blink: Imagine that the same set is also available in 72nd scale and you have to see it to believe the delicateness of the whole thing. Well yes, there is also a 32nd scale version but that is not my scale. If one takes a closer look at the vanes you can see that they are not just a simple trapeze shaped but the outer end is rounded slightly and the bottom is not parallel with the pitot but is at an angle just as on the real aircraft. No other manufacturer until now has captured this detail correctly. Not only the vanes but the turned brass parts too have the correct scale dimensions of the real thing!

Here are all the parts from Poland prepared for construction.

The pitot boom and the front of the pitot, the DUAS assembly are separate parts. They are turned from brass and look exactly right. The front of the pitot head (the PVD-7 as the Russians call it) even has the hole on its front end. All the holes for the vanes are drilled for us and it is simply a question of some super glue. In my case I used the “medium slow†type so there is time to have a correct setting for the vanes both in vertical and the right inclined angle to the back.

The original plastic pitot was cut off and a hole drilled for the new boom with a 0.8mm drill.

Some correction is required and make a note before cutting off the original plastic part the angle the boom is in comparison to the base. The boom has a slight bend on its forward part, clearly indicated by the comprehensive instruction sheet of the Polish manufacturer. I am still to add this. Could not wait and made a dry run of the assembly.

The fact that the front part of the pitot is separate is good in several ways. First and most important you can either add it to the fuselage right away and still have the option of leaving off the very delicate front part until the very end of construction. Or you can even leave the boom part to the last moment but have the base of it glued in place, filled and sanded and there will be nothing sticking out from the fuselage prone to brake off. All the delicate parts can be added after the very end of construction. Even then we have the option of two spare vanes in case something happens to our kit, and we know that things do happen. :) :D :)

The boom is the same colour as the fuselage while the pitot head is in different shades of aluminium and chrome metal. So here it is also a help that the front is a separate item, we have no need for masking, just paint it separately and push it in its location. As to the colour of the vanes I have seen ones with dull aluminium, ones in yellowish primer, some where very dirty after years of flight and use and there are even some with chrome plating. Look at your references. The dull aluminium is the most common. On the other hand the very end of the pitot, the PVD sensor is chrome plated by the manufacturer and also on overhaul. It has an internal heating but it does not “burn†and discolour as for example the ones on the F-16’s.

I would like to say a big thank you to the manufacturer for providing the first sample for testing on my kit.

Best regards

Gabor