Today I met a B-17 ball turret gunner

[blunce]

I had to go to the store today to grab a few things. On my to find a parking spot, I drove past an older gentleman standing by himself in front of a nail salon (waiting for his wife). As I got closer I saw he had one of those typical black Veteran hats you see from time to time, then I saw 8th Air Force. Well, I parked about as quick as I could and made my way over to him to meet him. This is something I've never done before, but for some reason, felt compelled to do.

I told him I had noticed his hat and asked if he had served in WWII. He said he had and was in B-17's! I said oh really!? What position were you, and his answer was ball turret. We talked a bit more about that, he said he had to do it because no one else would. When I asked him if his aircraft had a name, he said it was "Shirley Jean" and he briefly described the noseart. I left him with my name and phone number and told him it would be an honor to build him a model if he was ever interested (I sincerely hope he contacts me). I hurried home and did some research and here's some info/photos I've found.

There's only two men in this photo that are unnamed, I'm not sure if Mr. Larson is one of them

Lead aircraft in this photo:

Here's a shot of his office

I'm planning to build this aircraft regardless of if he contacts me or not, so I'll be needing some custom decal work (I'm pretty sure). Anyhow, it was just a cool experience that I wanted to share. I was humbled to meet this gentleman who served so bravely in the worst spot on the plane. One thing he told me which really stood out was that the ball turret guys couldn't even wear parachutes (not to mention get the door open unless the turret was in the correct position.)

Edited December 7, 2011 by blunce

[blunce]

She had an interesting life, here's more: http://www.bombsqd323rd.com/b17-shirleyjean.html

98 missions in 18 months works out to 5.5 missions per month, or a bit more than one mission per week for 18months. That's alot to survive!

[blunce]

That is fantastic!!!! 98 missions was a rare number to hit. Bet you could have spoken to him all day. Was he talkative? If he does contact you (I sure as hell hope he does!), drop me a PM, I'd like to donate the kit.

Lucky Dog!

He seemed willing to talk, but I've heard alot of the vets don't really like to talk about it much, so I was hesitant to push him too much.

I've been finding quite a bit of info and pics on the ol' bird so I'm hoping getting some decals made up will be pretty easy.

If he does get in touch with me, I'll be sure to let you know. I thought it would've been a little weird to ask him for his contact info, so figured this way was best. But it relies on him getting in touch with me, or running into him again. We live within a mile of each other and obviously both shop at the same store (they went shopping once his wife came out of the salon)

[AVGBob]

My great grandmothers brother was a tail gunner on a b-17. I tried to talk to him about it a few times at some family gathering when I was in my mid teens (I'm almost 30). The most I ever got out of him was that he was a tail gunner and he was shot down over Germany near the end of the war. Said he spent about a week in a Luftwaffe POW camp and was then marched back to France at the end of the war. I guess being shot down makes for some not too fond memories. Said he did what he had to do. Nothing more, nothing less. I had a feeling his whole crew didn't make it out, as that's the point in the conversation I could tell he really didn't want to talk about it anymore. He knew of my interest in history and WW2 aviation, but the last thing he said to me was, and I quote, There's no glory in war. Kinda rough for a 14 year old to hear. But he was right.

[B-17 guy]

Lucky SOB!

I gotta say I'm on the fence with this though as far as trying to get them to talk about their experiences. The part of me that's a WWII avaition fan (for lack of a better term) and WWII history in general, I would love to pick his brain, hear his stories and everything he would tell me. BUT...Being a veteran myself (iraq), I completely understand when guys dont want to talk about it. Honestly, I only ask details from other iraq veterans, "where were ya, and what year", because I can relate to that personally.

I've always felt weird asking WWII vets I've met about the war, what do ya say? "I've read about it in books", "I'm a big fan" (that doesnt go over well), know what I mean? I know that "thank you for your service" though.

[SBARC]

What a great thread....what an enjoyable read.....thanks guys.

[HOLMES]

What a great thread....what an enjoyable read.....thanks guys.

I was thinking the same Steve...

[Bigasshammm]

My grandfather was a waist gunner on a 17. I never got to meet him but my mom has always told me that he wouldn't ever talk about it. There were very rare occasions that he would talk about things but mostly he just kept quiet. He also vowed never to get in an airplane again, that his time in the sky was done.

I'm terrible with vets and that that I clam up and don't even know what to say to them. I'm insignificant nothing and they're heroes. I've never been able to understand the guys who were able to talk about it and give speeches and such. I can understand writing a book because thats impersonal but the guys who can sit in front of hundreds of people and spill stories I just don't get. Either they're much stronger than I am or they're glory hounds or they never really went through half the things the other guys did. I prefer the vet who casually where's his hat and sits in the corner.

[blunce]

My grandfather was a waist gunner on a 17. I never got to meet him but my mom has always told me that he wouldn't ever talk about it. There were very rare occasions that he would talk about things but mostly he just kept quiet. He also vowed never to get in an airplane again, that his time in the sky was done.

I'm terrible with vets and that that I clam up and don't even know what to say to them. I'm insignificant nothing and they're heroes. I've never been able to understand the guys who were able to talk about it and give speeches and such. I can understand writing a book because thats impersonal but the guys who can sit in front of hundreds of people and spill stories I just don't get. Either they're much stronger than I am or they're glory hounds or they never really went through half the things the other guys did. I prefer the vet who casually where's his hat and sits in the corner.

I know exactly what you mean. I found myself actually nervous just talking to the guy. And I too had no idea what I should talk about or ask about, I simply felt utter respect for this person who went through the things I can only imagine. What was most profound to me was that he was a ball turret gunner. NOBODY wanted that position. It was basically a spherical tomb for those who had to work there. The enemy fighters tended to take out the ball turrets and tail gunners first, so not a place you want to be on a 17.

From what I can remember, our conversation went something like this:

Me: I noticed your hat, did you serve in WWII

Larson: Yeah I did.

Me: Oh, I build scale models of WWII aircraft.

Larson: I was in B-17's.

Me: REALLY!?!! I'm working on one of those right now. What position were you in?

Larson: Ball Turret

Me: WOW!! Well THANK YOU for your service (I didn't actually shout!, but did emphasize thank you).

Larson: Well, we didn't have much choice.

Me: How did you get into that position? Was it because of your size (alot of guys were "volunteered" for ball turret simply because they were small)

Larson: No, nobody else would do it. There were two other guys supposed to do it, but they wouldn't.

Me: WOW

Larson: Well, we were young and dumb ya know.

Me: The ball turret, wow, that's a small place to be, I don't know how guys could do anything in there. I looked inside the ball turret at a restored B-17 @ Boeing Field and it's TINY in there. But I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.

Larson: Well, we couldn't even wear parachutes, just to fit inside

Me: WOW. Did you aircraft have a name?

Larson: Shirley Jean

Me: Ahh cool. Did it have any nose art?

Larson: yeah it had a girl on the nose with arms spread

Me: Oh ok, do you know if there are any pics of her?

Larson: Yeah, there were some in a book or two.

Me: Ok, I'll have to look it up and see if I can find some photos. I'd love to build a model of your plane.

Me: Do you know how it got it's name?

Larson: I think it was the name of the crew chiefs daughter.

Me: Hmm, ok. Well it was VERY nice to meet you. My name is Brian

Larson: Bert Larson

Me: Ok Mr. Larson thank you! It was great talking with you.

Then I grabbed a flower note card from the florist section and gave him my contact info and told him if he ever wanted a model of his plane, I'd be honored to build him one, just give me a call.

So, I guess the questions I asked weren't necessarily the type that would invoke ill feelings, like what was it like to shoot down enemy airplanes or something like that, they were pretty straightforward, factual type questions I think.

Edited December 7, 2011 by blunce

[Wolfgun33]

My grandmothers brother was a gunner on a bomber in WW2 but not sure what position and what bomber. My mom told me that the plane he was in was shot down over Europe. Wish I could find out more info about him.

Also my father-in-law's father was an A-4 (we think) pilot in Vietnam. He was shot down as well. We heard that he stayed with the plane to steer it away from a village as he went down. I'm gonna find out more on him so I can try and build his A-4.

I always want to hear the stories from the vets but I won't push them. I'd rather they tell me freely. I know it's really rough for some to talk about so I don't want to make them uncomfortable. I just thank them for thier service.