IrishGreek Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Not being political, but they are all but complete now... Foxnews link on Final F-22 Have a great day all (no sarcasm intended!). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I am optimistic they will be back in production someday. Hope they do a good job storing the tooling and keeping up the knowledge base. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I am optimistic they will be back in production someday. Hope they do a good job storing the tooling and keeping up the knowledge base. Don't hold your breath. Unless the F-35 program implodes, it ain't gonna happen. Just out of curiosity though, has any major aircraft program ever had production shut down and then re-instated a few years later? I would think that even if they kept all the tooling intact, it would be next to impossible to get all the subcontractors involved to ramp up production again. For the life of me, I still don't get why this plane was forbidden from export. The Japanese (and probably another middle eastern nation as well) would have paid whatever it took to purchase a fleet of Raptors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The Japanese, Israelis, and ABC countries should have been able to buy them. Why they couldn't is still beyond me. Chaulk it up to dumbass policies that bite us in the *** in the long run. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Ghost 531 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Just out of curiosity though, has any major aircraft program ever had production shut down and then re-instated a few years later? I would think that even if they kept all the tooling intact, it would be next to impossible to get all the subcontractors involved to ramp up production again. The C-5 line was restarted about ten years after the first batch was completed I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 11bee- you are correct that I shouldn't hold my breath! LOL! Like I said, I'm optimistic but not entirely confident ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 F-22 tooling will be kept intact. In other F-22 news... http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123283235 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klintman Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yeah, it is really silly. Iran has our most classified stealth technology in their hands now anyway. The JSF has much more advanced avionics/electronic systems then the Raptor. You would think that would be more sensitive then some Ram panels that would take even an advanced nation years to reverse engineer and perfect manufacture. They keep saying the JSF is cheaper, but the issues and cost overuns are no where near the endgame. I'm sure we're more likely to see block 60 F-16's entering the service then another F-22 rollout. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmk0210 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 So how many Raptors were made all together? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yeah, it is really silly. Iran has our most classified stealth technology in their hands now anyway. I wouldn't assume that the RQ-170 is the absolute cutting edge in stealth. My guess is that if we offered the Iranians a choice between an RQ-170 and an F-22, they would probably prefer to take ownership of a slightly used F-22. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) I'm sure we're more likely to see block 60 F-16's entering the service then another F-22 rollout. If the USAF gets another crack at the F-22 they will take it in a heartbeat, however newly built legacy aircraft will never enter USAF service. They are the past. If the USAF could have 2 more raptors or 100 F-16s they will take the 2 Raptors. Iran has our most classified stealth technology in their hands now anyway. I want you to really think about that statement. Do you really believe Iran capturing a single drone now means all of our tech secrets are now compromised? Or do you think just the tech having to do with the drone? F-22 tooling will be kept intact. In other F-22 news... http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123283235 I think I need to join the USAF and become a writer. Not to be a scrooge, but in an era of government overspending I am glad we can get those Fluff pieces published Can't believe someone collected a paycheck for that. Edited December 13, 2011 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GoBlue96 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 So how many Raptors were made all together? Total it was 195 aircraft, excluding the YF-22s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GoBlue96 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I started on the program two days before the first aircraft flew and this morning I watched the last one go out the door. It was a lot of hard work at times, but it's been a heck of a lot of fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I started on the program two days before the first aircraft flew and this morning I watched the last one go out the door. It was a lot of hard work at times, but it's been a heck of a lot of fun. Any pics to share? :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GoBlue96 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Any pics to share? :) LOL, yeah, right! My wife never even got to see my desk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) The Japanese, Israelis, and ABC countries should have been able to buy them. Why they couldn't is still beyond me. Chaulk it up to dumbass policies that bite us in the *** in the long run. The exact same things were said of the F-14 40 years ago, and look what that got us. Friends today, mortal arch-enemies tomorrow. Edited December 14, 2011 by Jennings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-Neu- Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) The exact same things were said of the F-14 40 years ago, and look what that got us. Friends today, mortal arch-enemies tomorrow. I don't think its even remotely a possible that Japan will become a potential security competitor... for the long term foreseeable future. Also, they possess more high tech US equipment than any other allied nation, including the Aegis Spy-1, Patriot PAC-3, Standard SM-3, E-2C, and now the F-35... they also license produce more US equipment than anybody else. I don't think they would be receiving this equipment if they were a threat in any way. Edited December 14, 2011 by -Neu- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klintman Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If the USAF gets another crack at the F-22 they will take it in a heartbeat, however newly built legacy aircraft will never enter USAF service. They are the past. If the USAF could have 2 more raptors or 100 F-16s they will take the 2 Raptors. The USAF wanted 381 Raptors..This did not happen because politicians, bureaucrats, and armchair analysts(the dogfight scenario was deemed obsolete in the late 50's...remember!) control the funding. Why with the lessons of history can we not give the military what they know we need to maintain superiority I don't know. Of course the the USAF would like more F-22's. I'll bet if they could get most of the ANG F-16 fleet to block 60 and form 20 more squardrons they would jump on that too. Wont happen, Unless WWIII breaks out. Looks like the the F-22 is going to be legacy fighter effective immediately and F-16s will still roll of the production line. Albiet not for the USA. Never said the drone Iran captured "ALL" of our stealth technology. More is known though about the F-22's avionics publically then the RQ-170. As for the RQ-170, well I guess since I don't have the top secret clearance some people seem to I should not have commented that our most classified stealth technology had been compromised. may be it is made of balsa wood and really has a chimpanzee with a 1958 Edsiel steering wheel piloting it???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 <...> If the USAF could have 2 more raptors or 100 F-16s they will take the 2 Raptors. <...> 2 more Raptors FOR 100 F-16s and you might just have yourself a deal! ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Just out of curiosity though, has any major aircraft program ever had production shut down and then re-instated a few years later? I would think that even if they kept all the tooling intact, it would be next to impossible to get all the subcontractors involved to ramp up production again. I hadn't heard about the C-5s, but Lockheed did indeed restart production of another aircraft after a multi-year hiatus. The U-2R production run ended in the late 1960s. In 1981 or so, it was restarted as the TR-1 (with the first one rolling off the line in 1984 I believe). So it can be done. But, a lot of it depends on if the contract requires destruction of the tooling jigs at the end of production or if there are provisions to store the jigs. The unit cost to build any follow on aircraft will be more expensive though due to the need to hire a construction workforce and ramp up building them again. As such, the longer a production line is shut down, the more expensive it gets until eventually it doesn't really become cost effective to do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klintman Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 As the official spokesperson of Klintman United Air Force I offer to trade you 2 1/48 Raptors for 100 1/48 F-16's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 As for the RQ-170, well I guess since I don't have the top secret clearance some people seem to I should not have commented that our most classified stealth technology had been compromised. may be it is made of balsa wood and really has a chimpanzee with a 1958 Edsiel steering wheel piloting it???? Maybe there are newer stealth UAVs out there and the RQ-170 is not the cutting edge? http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/stealth-drone-afghanistan/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klintman Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I sure hope so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevan Vogler Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The Japanese, Israelis, and ABC countries should have been able to buy them. Why they couldn't is still beyond me. Chaulk it up to dumbass policies that bite us in the *** in the long run. Japan and Australia are about the only countries I can think of that it might have sort of made some sense to offer the Raptor to. Sitting on China's doorstep as they do and with the indigenous Chinese industries cranking out no shortage of new and rather modern things for the Chinese military to play with, it would be prudent to have some Raptors in the vicinity. As for Raptors the Middle East, No need of it. It's too much high tech to use against largely low tech aggressors. Iraq is no longer an issue, the Afghanistan threat does not come from a modern military angle. As for Iran, I think if they got their hands on a Raptor they would be able to do as little with it as they can do with this drone. Israel and Saudi would certainly buy Raptors for appearances, but given the state of potential aggressor nations over there, appearances are all they'd be. Putting Raptors over there would really be a waste of the resource. The "capture" of this drone is much ado about nothing. The thing is just one part of a larger system and detached from the system it is meaningless. It's rather like having a single socket end from a set of socket wrenches; without having at least the handle from the set, an individual socket is useless. With as integrated into larger systems and networks as drones and the Raptor are, and the F-35 will be, the notion of a self destruct system is quite superfluous. The individual machine getting cut off from the rest of the supporting systems and networks would be enough to ensure a captured example would be all but useless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevan Vogler Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The C-5 line was restarted about ten years after the first batch was completed I think. While not an exact corollary, enough of the B-1 project was kept intact for Regan to bring it back from the grave after Carter had canned it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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