I will NEVER use ALCLAD again. Period.

[Cobrahistorian]

Hey all,

Need to vent for a moment.

I've been building four P-47D models, two Tamiya and two Academy. Two months ago, I sprayed them all with Alclad gray primer. Disaster. The primer didn't adhere to the plastic and pulled up the second anything touched it.

Ok, I'll roll with it. I stripped both Tamiya Jugs (and will get to the Academy ones) and had them beautifully smooth and ready for primer again after TONS of elbow grease, several large pieces of sandpaper and lots and lots of swearing.

So, Sunday night, in preparation for the bare metal finish, I sprayed my P-47D-30-RE with Alclad gloss black.

I went to pick it up to be sure it was dry (three days later!)and there are now fingerprints on the damn cowling where the paint STILL isn't dry.

Just a tad pi$$ed.

Jon

[SoarinSukhoi]

Alclad gloss black is crap. The primer isn't much better. Do a search on Google and you can find other people problems with it. There is a thread on it on the first or second page of this forum about it too. Just use the metallic paints and use something else for a primer/undercoat.

Edited December 15, 2011 by SoarinSukhoi

[AX 365]

I just use regular paint as a primer for my Alclad subjects. I find they're suitable for what I need and I know how my regular paints will perform. I've never had an issue spraying Alclad over MM paints.

Just my 2% of $1.00.

Mike

[nightiemission]

Hi John,

I use good old Krylon primers, decanted to shoot through my airbrush. I let it cure for several days, then work it down with Micro-mesh starting with 1800 and finishing up with either 4000 or 6000. Haven't had any problems.

Hope This Helps, Terry

Edited December 15, 2011 by nightiemission

[peebeep]

I've been using Alclad white and black primer recently with no problems. It's dry and can be handled within minutes. I have been warned by some fellow modellers that Alclad products tend to have a short shelf life, maybe that is the problem?

peebeep

[Scotsman]

I'm begenning to think there are 2 Alclad's , I'm in the UK, and the UK sourced paints and Primers work perfectly ,

I use the Grey primer for most things and it works beautifully , I then sand down and on goes the Metallic paints, agin no problems , hard and dry within minutes,

However I have some bottles of US sourced Alclad metallics , and NOTHING will entice them to dry ,no matter how long they're left for , they never seem to harden and any handling of them will leave marks

Is there perhaps a different formulation at work here ?

[Dave Hill]

Hi Jon,

I'm a relative noob when it comes to Alclad paints (2P-51's and most recent a P-47). I've went through two bottles of Alcad Aluminum and never had a problem. I use MM Lt. Ghost Gray enamel paint thinned 50/50 with Testors thinner as a primer with great results!...I don't think it's the Alclad giving you headaches it's your primer coats. Don't give up on Alclad...you'll never want to use anything else for a NMF!

Dave

[Adam Baker]

The few time's I've used Alclad, I always just use straight Model Master Gloss Black, and havent had a single issue w/ it. For all the posts I've seen about the Alclad Gloss Black, and Primer, I'll never waste my money on either of 'em.

[dmk0210]

I just use regular paint as a primer for my Alclad subjects. I find they're suitable for what I need and I know how my regular paints will perform. I've never had an issue spraying Alclad over MM paints.

+1

I use Alclad a lot. Never use their primer.

I used to use Krylon Gloss Black as primer and it worked OK, but the last time I used Testors Gloss Black enamel. It came out so nice. That's all I'm using from now on.

[ChippyWho]

Some of the best Alclad II results I've seen had no primer at all! A good example is Pierre Lambert's F-100D in AIR Modeller (Feb/March 2009). The own brand stuff is notoriously twitchy, as has already been mentioned here, but there are two issues where the final finish is concerned:

First, you have to start with a totally smooth surface, as with any NMF effect. Primer doesn't help too much with that, relentless polishing does.

Second, the final metallic 'depth' and appearance of the Alclad can be modified by using a gloss black (or other) primer -I gather gloss black is pretty much essential if you want a high-reflectivity (eg. chrome) finish. Some guys use rattlecan Tamiya gloss black and it works great.

For most airframe finishes, I've found Tamiya AS-12 bare metal silver works fine under Alclad (in this case Steel, Exhaust and Light Aluminium -not wonderful pic, sorry!):

Edited December 15, 2011 by ChippyWho

[Liberator24]

Never used a primer after watching Greg Wise do his mustangs. He doesnt use a primer either. Now, I have to agree with the ALCLAD not drying properly. The last Mustang I painted, the paint came off with just a swipe of a piece of tissue.....

Never had that happen before, but I am glad others are having the same issue.

-Jim

[toniosky]

USe Gunze super metallizer instead, the finish is as good as with Alclad IMHO, and more easy to use .

Edited December 15, 2011 by toniosky

[Aigore]

Once I have had issues with grey primer that didn´t cover well nor cure...other than that one time I´ve never had any issues with alclad.

SHort shelf life on the paints tho...after a while they start to form lumps that no manner of shaking or stiring can break up and it clogs the AB.

I have successfully shot alclad on bare untreated plastic surfaces without issues, as long as I used low preassure and tiny ammounts of paint.

As long as you shoot a clear coat in between you can shoot alclad on any sort of color.

The paints have different properties...some are very sensitive to touch even when cured (like Chrome and Aiframe aluminium) and others form a hard and sturdy surface that can take almost any abuse. (white aluminum, dark aluminium)

[Old Blind Dog]

I use Tamiya TS 14 Gloss Black (decanted and shot through my Badger 360) as an undercoat for Alclad and have yet to encounter a serious problem.

Don't give up on Alclad altogether, just use something else for the undercoat.

cheers

Old Blind Dog

[dmk0210]

Don't give up on Alclad altogether, just use something else for the undercoat.

+1 It's the primer that's trouble. The Alclad topcoats are awesome.

And as we all know, your top coat is only as good as your prep underneath.

[dmk0210]

As long as you shoot a clear coat in between you can shoot alclad on any sort of color.

Yes, but.. the Alclad topcoats are very thin. Different color undercoats will show through the top coat differently.

You can use this to your advantage by painting various panels different shades of gray and black. When you topcoat with a single shade of Alclad your different panels will show through.

[drhornii]

I use Tamiya TS 14 Gloss Black (decanted and shot through my Badger 360) as an undercoat for Alclad and have yet to encounter a serious problem.

Don't give up on Alclad altogether, just use something else for the undercoat.

Similar approach, I use Tamiya X1 black, no issues yet. Just finished a 1/32 P-38 and dreaded the NMF and it went off without any base coat failures.

[frogman13]

I also had a major problem with Alclad. It started cracking after some months and I never did figure out why it happened. I followed the guidelines and read many articles but still had this problem.

Go to this link: http://www.idf-in-scale.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2352

for the complete sad story of how I nearly trashed my NMF 32nd scale Mirage IIIC

Best regards, Happy Holidays,

ED OKUN/ Frogman13

Edited December 17, 2011 by frogman13

[f12aaa]

Jon, mix Alclad gloss black with MEK. It works!

[Cyrus Tan]

I also had a major problem with Alclad. It started cracking after some months and I never did figure out why it happened. I followed the guidelines and read many articles but still had this problem.

Go to this link: http://www.idf-in-sc...php?f=21&t=2352

for the complete sad story of how I nearly trashed my NMF 32nd scale Mirage IIIC

Frogman13 - I'm glad to hear someone else had this problem. The same thing happened to my project years ago although at a lesser degree when I painted the burner cans on my F-14. Hair line cracks slowly appeared over the course of 2 weeks and ruined the finish of my model. I was upset because I spent a lot of time masking each petal! Did you use happen to use Alclad's Gloss Black Base as an under coat? I'm convinced that's the culprit.

[Browning]

In Canada, tried Alclad's gloss black primer, still extremely tacky for me as well after two days.

As for the grey primer, MM enamel paints seemed to have a tough time sticking to the stuff, especially when removing masking. I'm not suggesting that's purely Alclad's fault, but just a heads-up. Anyone have a similar experience?

Loving the finish coats though!

[Av8fan]

Hawkeye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXTqlEsvXRA

Edited December 18, 2011 by Av8fan

[Devilleader501]

Just for the record guys. Any paints that are enamels have to have a certain amount of drying time invested before another coat can be layed down on top of it. Normally an airbrush sprays so fine the paint is almost dry to the touch as soon as it hits the model. Some paints do not release the vapors it needs to in order to dry before the second coat goes over it. When this happens it will cause Orange peel, bubbling, and sometimes a Marbeling effect because the paint doesnt have enough time to release the Vapors from the thinner and the hardener inside of the paint before the next coat goes over it. The best thing i can say to do is mist every coat of paint very lightly and give it 15 minutes of drying time at a minimum between coats and see where this lands you.

For my models I never use primer. I use non powerded latex gloves when handeling the model and wash every part in soapy water before ever spraying anything. Be sure to let the parts Air dry for 24 hours. Then I spray with an airbrush at about 10 PSI and things turn out perfect every time. Sorry my compressor is a POS. As far as the ALCLAD I dont use it because of the horor storys ive heard. What I do instead is take a really good testors silver and top it off with the aluminum metalizer from the MM line turns out perfect everytime. The metalizer can be buffed just like the ALCLAD but i dont have to worry about 15 different coats of paint wrecking my pannel lines.

[frogman13]

Good advice. I'll have to try that.

Frogman/ ED Okun

[DutyCat]

What I do instead is take a really good testors silver and top it off with the aluminum metalizer from the MM line turns out perfect everytime. The metalizer can be buffed just like the ALCLAD but i dont have to worry about 15 different coats of paint wrecking my pannel lines.

Yes, but what about masking? NMF often have multi-hued panels. How do you pull that off with Testors Metalizer? I have heard of using wet Post-It notes, but that isn't always practical over compound curves.

BTW, I have tried SNJ and was not impressed. It kind of went on like metallic aluminium paint. It dried very hard and I would have had to polish it for a week to get it looking like really shiny natural metal.

Edited December 21, 2011 by DutyCat