Laurent Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) 16 pics are visible here: http://modelsua.com/...Model-7210.html The marking options are great ! Edited December 31, 2011 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
digit Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Yes indeed, 15 options with stenciling. Looks like the kit has its roots in the RV Aircraft kit, judging by the parts breakdown - and inclusion of APU-60 launch rails for R-3 missiles... Well, I guess I will have to buy one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks for the link, Laurent. I am a bit sceptical about the cockpit tubs with molded-in seats..... And they forgot to add a Bulgarian sharkmouth option to the decal sheet! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I just ordered one! Wish me luck :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Barr Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Looks like the kit has its roots in the RV Aircraft kit, judging by the parts breakdown While the sprues them self are completely different from the RV Aircraft sprues, when you compare the parts and panel lines against one another there sure seems to be a family lineage between the two kits with the caveat that we are looking at photos of the Art Model parts and not the real items. I am with Pollie about the modeled in seat and not real sure about the one pieces canopy and how clear, thin, and crisp the detail is. But unless R V Aircraft announce one (and I am surprised they have not) I will be getting one. Regards Jim Barr . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Barr Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 just ordered one! Wish me luck Way to go Pollie for taking one for the Team :D Let us know how it really looks when you get it. Regards Jim Barr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo72 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Look interesting!!! the decal sheet superb, any one have buy in that store? it`s in Holland? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Look interesting!!! the decal sheet superb, any one have buy in that store? it`s in Holland? No, it is a Ukrainian (web)store that has it for sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raymond Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 my responce: http://youtu.be/4pXfHLUlZf4 great news! ART model are usually cheaper than RV too! hope they do more from the family! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Piotrek.S. Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have it on my desk for about two days. If You compare it to RV Aircraft`s Flogger all common parts are like twins! RV is very close to set their own two-seater. Art Model just copied whole model and changed some parts. RV Aircraft says it`s a pure piracy and recommends their own model. BTW.Art Model suggest that Polish national insignia should be applied to upper wings sides. That`s wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Interesting. Even the rivet detail is copied? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Interesting. Even the rivet detail is copied? It looks like the fuselage, wings and rear stabilizers look exactly like the RV kit. The sprue gates are different, but the parts look exact. The difference is the nose section, and the extra stores sprue and the exhaust is resin. The nose is in two pieces, moulded on the fuselage, the cockpit tubs are one piece with the ejection seat molded into them, one piece non-openeing canopy, the control panels are mostly flat, with decals for the controls, there is an extra sprue with four AA-2 Atoll missiles and centerline fuel tank and the verticle stabilizer, even though it looks like the RV kit part, has a shorter fillet on the forward edge. The canopy is about average when it comes to thickness, but is pretty clear. I also have questions about the markings, in particular, the Algerian machine (no bort numbers) and the Cuban machine (no insignia for the wings). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Interesting. Even the rivet detail is copied? Yes. That's surprises me a bit too. I don't believe that the RV kit parts could have been copied so accurately that the riveting would have been duplicated. I don't have the ART Model yet so I can't compare the kits but the sprues are very different so either the molds have been tooled by different companies or by the same company for different customers (RV and ART). It seems possible to me that copies of the same masters have been used for the common parts. And I wouldn't be surprised if the masters were heavily modified Zvezda parts copies in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I received an email a week or two ago from RV Aircraft warning their customers of unauthorized copies of their kits. I don't recall who the offender is. Jim, I received an email from RV earlier this week announcing a two-seat MiG-23. I'll wait for it. I won't buy the bootleg copies of Afterburner Decals from China, so I'm skeptical here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Barr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Jim, I received an email from RV earlier this week announcing a two-seat MiG-23. I'll wait for it. Great, I will wait and pick up the RV kit. Thanks Jim Barr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tiger331 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yes. That's surprises me a bit too. I don't believe that the RV kit parts could have been copied so accurately that the riveting would have been duplicated. I don't have the ART Model yet so I can't compare the kits but the sprues are very different so either the molds have been tooled by different companies or by the same company for different customers (RV and ART). It seems possible to me that copies of the same masters have been used for the common parts. And I wouldn't be surprised if the masters were heavily modified Zvezda parts copies in the first place. Hi Laurent, I do not think so that RV copied Zvezda. I have both models and accessories for Zvezda(Bilek and Eduard photo etched, Pavla resins) and it does not fit into RV at all - you must all adjust a bit. Zvezda fuselage is also bigger - not possible to change it between both models... RV makes his molds himself, so if ART is the same, it is a piracy... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) The Russians (on scalemodels.ru) have been saying all the time that the RVA kit is a straight copy of their Zvezda with minimal adjustment and they rather use the Russian product for any MiG-23 build than the foreign one. I think this is crap but there is no point in arguing about it. The RVA kit is a new one with some mistakes (like the area behind the cockpit and the way it connects to the spine) but it is still the best MiG-23 it to date. I look forward to see both the RVA and the ART kit of the MiG-23 UB. Did they make a note that the UB fuselage is narrower at the point of the air intakes (measured from outer edge of the lip, not only the fuselage width)than that of the fighter versions? OK, I know it is 72 scale and everyone will say "we can live with that". Just asking. Best regards Gabor Edited January 27, 2012 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I do not think so that RV copied Zvezda. I have both models and accessories for Zvezda(Bilek and Eduard photo etched, Pavla resins) and it does not fit into RV at all - you must all adjust a bit. Zvezda fuselage is also bigger - not possible to change it between both models...RV makes his molds himself, so if ART is the same, it is a piracy... Here's what I read on Scalemodels.ru. I don't read Russian but the guy is talkins about Zvezda. ĐĐ°Đș ŃĐŸ ŃŃŃĐ°ĐœĐœĐŸ Đ Đ Đ·ĐœĐ°ŃĐžŃ ĐžŃĐżĐŸĐ»ŃĐ·ĐŸĐČĐ°ŃŃ ĐĐČĐ”Đ·ĐŽĐžĐœŃĐșĐžĐč ĐŒĐŸĐ¶ĐœĐŸ ĐČ ŃĐČĐŸĐ”Đč ŃĐ°Đ±ĐŸŃĐ”,Đ° ĐĐ Đą ĐŒĐŸĐŽĐ”Đ»Ń ĐœĐ”Ń,ĐșĐ°Đș ŃĐŸ ĐœĐ” ŃĐżŃĐ°ĐČДЎлОĐČĐŸ ĐŒŃŃлОŃĐ”,ĐĐĐ„Đ ĐŸĐ±Đ” ŃĐžŃĐŒŃ "Ń ĐŸŃĐŸŃĐž". And I'd didn't suggest that the RV parts where straight rescribed and riveted copies (it can't be: the canopy and front fuselage of the Zvezda MiG-23/27 are terrible) but the heavily modified Zvezda parts. Recall that ART sold the UB before RV. What will the RV UB look like ? like a copy of the ART kit or not ? we'll see but still I'm thinking that the masters have leaked to ART while RV thought they had exclusive access to the masters. Edited January 27, 2012 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Here's what I read on Scalemodels.ru. I don't read Russian but the guy is talkins about Zvezda. ĐĐ°Đș ŃĐŸ ŃŃŃĐ°ĐœĐœĐŸ Đ Đ Đ·ĐœĐ°ŃĐžŃ ĐžŃĐżĐŸĐ»ŃĐ·ĐŸĐČĐ°ŃŃ ĐĐČĐ”Đ·ĐŽĐžĐœŃĐșĐžĐč ĐŒĐŸĐ¶ĐœĐŸ ĐČ ŃĐČĐŸĐ”Đč ŃĐ°Đ±ĐŸŃĐ”,Đ° ĐĐ Đą ĐŒĐŸĐŽĐ”Đ»Ń ĐœĐ”Ń,ĐșĐ°Đș ŃĐŸ ĐœĐ” ŃĐżŃĐ°ĐČДЎлОĐČĐŸ ĐŒŃŃлОŃĐ”,ĐĐĐ„Đ ĐŸĐ±Đ” ŃĐžŃĐŒŃ "Ń ĐŸŃĐŸŃĐž". And I'd didn't suggest that the RV parts where straight rescribed and riveted copies (it can't be: the canopy and front fuselage of the Zvezda MiG-23/27 are terrible) but the heavily modified Zvezda parts. Recall that ART sold the UB before RV. What will the RV UB look like ? like a copy of the ART kit or not ? we'll see but still I'm thinking that the masters have leaked to ART while RV thought they had exclusive access to the masters. I'm willing to bet that RV's UB forward fuselage breaks down like the forward fuselage of thier earlier kits, two halves, but one piece nose and injected second cockpit. I have serious doubts that the RV kit is a Zvezda copy, the Zvezda kit has thick plastic, the RV kit is thinner. Edited January 27, 2012 by Johnopfor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tiger331 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Laurent - did you see Zvezda and RV side by side??? According your words - each newer kit is heavily modified older kit of the same type. Sorry - bad idea... Put those two kits beside each other and compare. It is NOT a copy of Zvezda, those discussing Russians can say what they say... And master of RV could not leak to ART as RV is a one man company - he makes master, he makes molds, he makes model... So if the even rivets on ART are the same on common parts as on RV... I do not know, for me it is clear... Johnopfor - it is not ONLY about plastic thickness - the outside silhouette of Zvezda is significantly different from RV - so it could not be a copy... BTW - it does not bother me at all... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) According your words - each newer kit is heavily modified older kit of the same type. Wow. Where did I say that ? Put those two kits beside each other and compare. It is NOT a copy of Zvezda, those discussing Russians can say what they say... I will compare. And you're right, those Russians can say things that aren't true. And master of RV could not leak to ART as RV is a one man company - he makes master, he makes molds, he makes model... One man can makes drawings. The same can eventually make masters. However I doubt he can tool steel molds and inject plastic in them. There's expensive hardware needed. We aren't discussing of a resin kit here. Edited January 27, 2012 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I got my MiG-23UB kit this week. Will try to take some pictures of the sprues and post them here when I feel a bit better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I got my MiG-23UB kit this week. Will try to take some pictures of the sprues and post them here when I feel a bit better. Get well!!! And lets see those photos Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here are the sprue shots from both kits.... The RV kit sprues The Art model kit sprues The upper fuselage....Rv on the left, Art Model on the right..... The panel lines look the same, the rivet detail is a little more pronounced on the RV kit, but the fuselage hump on the Art Model kit is bigger..... Another view of the upper fuselage, the panel lines are almost exact...... The lower fuselage, RV left, Art Model on right....look the same to me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Part 2..... The forward fuselage, Art Model on left, RV on right.....some of the panel lines are different with a few different details..... Another look at the front offices, you can see the panel line differences...... Wings.....RV left, Art Model on right.....look the same..... Another look at the wings.....no real difference that I can see....... The verticle stabilizers with the extended fillets, RV left, Art Model right. The look almost the same, but the Art Model version is shorter. In my opinion, it appears that the Art Model kit may have used the main fuselage and wing parts, with a few modifications. But everyone should make there own call. I would also see what the real story is behind both kits...as in if RV used a second party for thier molds, and that second party allowed AM to use them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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