Give me a break.

[The_Animal]

Why do I get the feeling this is going to take a hard right into politics and then get locked down?

[gonzalo]

The whole '99'% thing makes me laugh. You live in the West. You ARE the 1%.

Vince

That is very true. I've never quite thought of it that way, but you are absolutely correct.

[gonzalo]

Speaking of grown men watching other grown men play a child's game.......um we are grown men talking to grown men who build child's toys. Call it what you will models are considered toys. What we do with these toys is relaxing, enjoyable, artistic, fun, creative, and amazing. However, the fact remains they are toys. How much money do we give to Trumpeter, Hasegawa, Kinetic etc for toys that we are not satisfied with and then spend more money to make perfect? If a modeler made millions of dollars making kits would that be outrageous? The point is its not how much professional players make. We live in a society which glorifies non important people and situations while ignoring our most important professions. We adore movie stars, singers, athletes, and people who do nothing, like the Kardashians. We make heroes of them. We should give out the same kind of attention to our teachers, soldiers, nurses, doctors, policemen, firemen etc.! We do not. Why don't we have the world series of teaching? How about the Superbowl of the armed forces? Championship fireman? This is the society we live in. but, this is what makes America great. Most of us have the opportunity to make it big. We may not all have the ability to score touchdowns home runs or three pointers, but there are always other ways to make wealth. There are many millionaires that are wealthy for inventing or doing very simple things. We live in the land of opportunity. What we do with that opportunity is up to the individual. Start a website site called www.athletes salaries are BS.com and I'm sure you can make a decent living from advertisement. There is an opportunity. Then we can say that guy makes way to much money complaining about athletes salaries. And it all started here on ARC!

[TaiidanTomcat]

That is very true. I've never quite thought of it that way, but you are absolutely correct.

Yep. And if that isn't humbling enough, remember that in the West, your toilet water is probably cleaner than most people drinking water... we water our lawns with solid gold and don't give a second thought to it.

I don't know why this Pujols thing is so hard to explain so the only thing I can think of is this is some kind of troll. but hey I feel for it so here is the reason Pujols makes so much money: We live in a free market. Its not a command economy the "powers that be" didn't say "hey you know what would be a blast? Paying this guy a small fortune so he could take away from others" It doesn't work that way. People "vote with their wallet" and pujols gets more votes than any other player right now. If you think "All pro athletes make millions" I need only direct you to take a look at American Soccer. They make pennies on the dollar compared to what other countries pay. How about the WNBA? They struggle to sell tickets so their player make a fraction of what the boys make. Same sport, massive difference.

In closing I will remind everyone that it is not a "zero sum game" If Pujols "wins" a big contract, it doesn't mean others "lose" money. IF you think that pujols getting this contract has anything to do with a lack of jobs or a bad economy, I strongly suggest going back to school and educating yourself before you open your mouth and look even more ignorant of basic economic concepts. So yeah, OP Give me a break.

[GreyGhost]

Hey, he might fill the seats for a short time in Anaheim so that means more jobs, right ? If he stayed and retired as a Cardinal, he would have retired a Legend, now, he'll just retire ...

Best of Luck in La La Land, Albert ...

Gregg

[Kalashnikov-47]

The whole '99'% thing makes me laugh. You live in the West. You ARE the 1%.

Vince

[mingwin]

The whole '99'% thing makes me laugh. You live in the West. You ARE the 1%.

Vince

NO YOUR NOT!!! ...not even close!!

1% of 7 000 000 000 people does 70 million people.

which represent 20% of USA's population... the richer 20%... but, in fact, there is rich people in Europe too... in Canada too... in japan... and else...

so, it's more about 5% of US's citizen who are concerned by that 1%... like that baseball player is!

so, unless you have a luxury car (100 000$ and more, and more than only one!) a half million house and more (and actually finished to paid for)

your not even close of the 1%... (even if you like to think your one of...)

[mingwin]

speak for yourself. I've never been told by any so-called 1% how to act, what to buy or what to think. I do however have a job because of a 1%er so I may buy the things I would like to buy (such as models from another company owned by a 1%er). I think for myself and don't blame anyone else for my lot in life. There are people far worse off than I am and there are people that are far better off than myself. That's life. I can blame others or I can try to improve my own life. I choose the latter.

Bill

your lucky

your a good and happy slave

and you have good masters

and you learn and repeat us what you 1%eer told you to told us!!!

more power to you!

Edited January 6, 2012 by mingwin

[Aaronw]

I hate professional sports, and think it is part of a sick culture of greed in this country.

However based on the money they make for their bosses most players are probably underpaid.

[eharrold44]

This same thing came up on another board when Derrick Rose got his contract extension, so I'll just cut and paste rather than write it all out again:

Sports teams aren't charities, they don't just give all their money away. They pay athletes handsomely because the benefits they provide- bringing fans to stadiums, increasing the marketability and revenue of the team, etc.- make them valuable. That value is increased by the relative rarity of their skill sets; it's easy to find an HVAC technician, but it's difficult to find a QB who can thread a ball between two defenders. If demand for an economically viable skill is high, and the number of people in possession of that skill is low, then the amount of money paid to said people will remain at a level far above average. It's basic economics, sir. Also, remember that sports teams don't just employ players; they also employ concession crews, security guards, office workers, low-level assistants, media specialists, etc. Without athletes, there are no teams. No teams means no paychecks for all the regular folks behind the scenes- and no games for the millions of people who watch them each week to enjoy.

[niart17]

your lucky

your a good and happy slave

and you have good masters

and you learn and repeat us what you 1%eer told you to told us!!!

more power to you!

Slave!?!? haa...Hardly. I get paid for what I do. It's a profession I chose on my own free will. I am nobody's slave. I work hard for what I make, but I havam free to not do anything, or to move to another profession and try to make more. I could also start my own company and work for myself and possibly become wealthy enough to become one of these 1% people. It's my choice. The person I work for worked REALLY hard for his company (still does) and is an extremely smart business person. If I could do the same as him I would. But I have every oportunity that he has at his disposal. I just chose a much easier path and am happy to be where I am. MY CHOICE.

Bill

[redwoodmodels]

Yep. And if that isn't humbling enough, remember that in the West, your toilet water is probably cleaner than most people drinking water... we water our lawns with solid gold and don't give a second thought to it.

That is absolutely true and something that freaking haunts me. Not to get all religious on you, but Matthew 25:31-46. I loose sleep thinking about the inequity of what you're saying above. That is something I desperately want to do something about and have no idea how to even begin addressing.

but hey I feel for it so here is the reason Pujols makes so much money: We live in a free market.

Actually, most things in professional sports are exempt from antitrust regulation one way or another, which means that almost everything sports is NOT free market.

But baseball especially:

Baseball's Con Game - How did America's pastime get an antitrust exemption? - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2002/07/baseballs_con_game.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act

Its not a command economy the "powers that be" didn't say "hey you know what would be a blast? Paying this guy a small fortune so he could take away from others"

Actually, they did exactly that when they raised everybody's taxes to subsidize professional sports.

"During the 20th century, more than $20 billion has been spent on major league ballparks, stadiums, and arenas. This includes a minimum of $14.7 billion in government subsidies that has gone to the four major league sports —Major League Baseball, the National Football League, the National Basketball Association, and the National Hockey League —including more than $5.2 billion just since 1989.

These numbers (all in 1997 dollars) exclude the billions of dollars in subsidies provided through the use of tax-free municipal bonds, interest paid on debt, lost property and other tax revenues not paid on facilities, taxpayer dollars placed at risk of being lost if the venture failed, direct government grants to teams, and the billions of dollars spent by taxpayers on minor league facilities.

Looking to the rest of 1999 and the next several years, considering what is already agreed to and what various teams and cities are seeking or proposing, another conservative estimate indicates that at least $13.5 billion more will be spent on new ballparks, stadiums, and arenas for major league teams. Taxpayers are expected to pay more than $9 billion of that amount (in nominal terms)."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-339es.html

I generally don't like, trust, or quote the CATO institute because they're a right-wing (libertarian) think tank that often bends the data to suit their beliefs. I only posted the above because found a second source to back up some of what they're saying (see below). Please feel free to take their numbers with a grain of salt if you wish, but know that it is a fact that the money spent by these sports teams raises our taxes.

I don't understand what you are upset about.

Did this Pujols cause anybody to lose their job?

Is he in any way responsible for the economy going down hill?

People can't have it both ways. Either higher taxes kill jobs or they don't. They've been screaming for 30 years that they have to lower taxes to create jobs. Well, professional sports is NOT paid for by the teams and the revenue they generate, it's paid for partially through US TAXPAYER subsidies.

Back in 1997 when sports teams weren't wasting anywhere near as much money as they are today:

"Some taxpayers get stuck paying more than others, the authors say.

In San Francisco, where voters first balked at more expensive stadium proposals for the Giants baseball team and the 49er football team, the $200 million-plus subsidy for two new stadiums probably will cost each city resident about $10 a year for 25 years, Noll calculates. In neighboring Oakland, the recent $135 million in renovations for the Raiders and Warriors will probably cost that city's smaller population about $50 per capita per year, and the Oakland Athletics are still threatening to leave unless something is done for them.

In Seattle, where the voters also initially balked, the Seahawks managed to win a statewide referendum to spread the costs over the state's population, and in Cincinnati, new facilities for the Reds and the Bengals will be subsidized by a sales tax throughout the metropolitan area.

In New York, where the Yankees want at least $800 million from the city for a new stadium in Manhattan, it would be cheaper if the city fathers simply gave the Yankees a cash bribe of $10 million a year, Noll facetiously says. "Even better, the city could pay $100,000 for each game won, with a million-dollar bonus for winning the pennant."

In nearly all cases, Noll says, federal taxpayers are also being hit hard. They provide about 30 percent of the local subsidy in the form of tax-free bonds that the cities sell to build the facilities. The 1986 Tax Reform Act encourages cities to subsidize stadiums, because they can only sell tax-exempt bonds if the revenues from the stadium account for less than 10 percent of their debt service. "

http://news.stanford.edu/pr/97/971218stadiums.html

If higher taxes do kill jobs and the economy like they've been saying they do, then this guy's paycheck and all the other taxpayer dollars being wasted by these sports teams is in fact costing jobs and killing the economy.

This same thing came up on another board when Derrick Rose got his contract extension, so I'll just cut and paste rather than write it all out again:

Sports teams aren't charities, they don't just give all their money away. They pay athletes handsomely because the benefits they provide- bringing fans to stadiums, increasing the marketability and revenue of the team, etc.- make them valuable. That value is increased by the relative rarity of their skill sets; it's easy to find an HVAC technician, but it's difficult to find a QB who can thread a ball between two defenders. If demand for an economically viable skill is high, and the number of people in possession of that skill is low, then the amount of money paid to said people will remain at a level far above average. It's basic economics, sir. Also, remember that sports teams don't just employ players; they also employ concession crews, security guards, office workers, low-level assistants, media specialists, etc. Without athletes, there are no teams. No teams means no paychecks for all the regular folks behind the scenes- and no games for the millions of people who watch them each week to enjoy.

I would LOVE to see those massively inflated salaries be "economically viable" WITHOUT all the taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks, exemptions from free market competition, and other taxpayer/government handouts they get.

If these salaries really are justifiable, then they should be able to pay them without taking a single cent from any taxpayer and without a bunch of legal/tax exemptions that most small businesses don't get.

Edited January 6, 2012 by redwoodmodels

[redwoodmodels]

The whole '99'% thing makes me laugh. You live in the West. You ARE the 1%.

Vince

"In 2009, the richest 10% of Americans accounted for about half the nation's wealth. Narrow that focus a bit further, and the trend is even more alarming. The top 0.1% -- those who make at least $2 million each year -- controlled 10% of the economy.

That's a far cry from the 1950s, when the suburban American dream ruled: the bottom 90% of Americans controlled about 68% of the economy."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/22/news/economy/income_inequality/index.htm?iid=EL

I'm pretty sure that's NOT me.

In dollars:

"Taken literally, the top 1 percent of American households had a minimum income of $516,633 in 2010 — a figure that includes wages, government transfers and money from capital gains, dividends and other investment income.

That number is down from peak of $646,195 in 2007, before the economic crisis hit, all adjusted to 2011 dollars, according to calculations by the Tax Policy Center. By contrast, the bottom 60 percent earned a maximum of $59,154 in 2010, the bottom 40 percent earned a max of $33,870, while the bottom 20 percent earned just $16,961 at maximum. As Annie Lowrey points out, that gap has grown wider over time: “The top 1 percent of households took a bigger share of overall income in 2007 than they did at any time since 1928.” (And in New York City, it’s even more skewed: the top 1 percent have an average of $3.7 million in income.)

When you look at the disparity in net worth, things look even more skewed. Wealthier Americans have assets — in home equity, stocks and other investments — that generally outstrip their cash income.

Average wealth of the top 1 percent was almost $14 million in 2009, according to a 2011 report from the Economic Policy Institute. That’s down from a peak of $19.2 million in 2007.

"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/who-are-the-1-percenters/2011/10/06/gIQAn4JDQL_blog.html

That's really NOT me.

Let's look globally, like you mentioned:

"only $2161 was needed in order to belong to the top half of the world wealth distribution, but to be a member of the top 10 per cent required at least $61,000 and membership of the top 1 per cent required more than $500,000 per adult." (Davies et al. 2006, p. 25)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_inequality

Yep. Any way you look at it, I'm definitely still NOT in the 1%. Are you?

Thought this was interesting:

"Currently, the richest 1% of people

in the world

receives as much as the bottom 57%."

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/income.php

(emphasis added)

That's insane.

Edited January 6, 2012 by redwoodmodels

[yardbird78]

The pay for baseball, football, hocky or any other professional athletes should be performance based like in golf. You do well, you get paid well. You sit on the bench or don't well on the field, then you don't get paid well.

- Baseball should be:

- $xxx for each plate appearance, $xxx for each hit, $xxx for each extra base, $xxx for each home run, $xxx for All Star game, $xxx for post season, etc.

Darwin

[uscusn]

Living in the west a California native, we are taxed to death. I've gone to college on my own dime ( lots of dimes trust me USC). But really at the end of the day, with 2 cars in the drive a home. All that matters the bills are paid, my family is fed and they are healthy. I can buy my models, when she wants a 200.00 hair straightener she can get it, God only knows why, her hair is perfectly fine. But I dont have to tell her no. I love sports and not for the money but for the same passion I build a model toy airplane. But playing college ball as Clint Eastwood once said "a man must know his limitations" and I couldnt hit a college level curve ball. I realized then I didnt have the gift that Pujols and other Major League ballplayers have. The gift a naval aviator has to land an F-14 on the USS Nimitz. We all do not have those gifts certain people have. No matter what your education or skill level you have. Some of us dont have it. We have so much to live for and experience. Take your family to a ballgame enjoy it. If not take them to Yosemite National Park and enjoy the natural beauty that the Lord has given us to enjoy. Doesn't have to be about how the entertainment industry including sports which is entertainment, that has been througout civilization for centuries. People are paid to entertain us. No one works for free. So we do the best we can to provide for our families so other are more fortunate than others, no matter how much we know about stocks, bonds real estate. There are no guarantees. I have seen successful couples lose everything, which is a fear I live with. But I live with it. I pray everyday for my job, I thank my employer everyday. So lets quit pointing fingers, the east is better than the west non sense, we are here as Americans. One nation under God or whatever you believe in. The price for freedom we pay is also not free. And by the way Pujols is a great player, but he also has a good heart. A child asked him for an Autograph baseball for their school to display. He sent not one ball but baseballs to all the children with a card and $10,000.00 U.S.D. to them for sorely needed equipment. He did that in St Louis as well. And those Cardinal fans. You probably have the nicest venue I've ever been to catching a Cardinal game while passing thru. Cant say that for NYC or Boston, yeesh. Sorry for being so long, but it is tough out their right now for all of us. Christmas season is past we spent to much or not enough. Either way it's a new year, new challenges known or the unexpected.

And the Angels will win the World Series in October. I love LA!

Chuck

Fly Navy

[camaroz06]

And the Angels will win the World Series in October.

That one line is the most BS I've read this entire thread.....J/K hope you guys have a good season...and as a Red Sox fan I agree that Fenway while historical is blah and has a lot of crappy seats.

Edited January 7, 2012 by camaroz06

[uscusn]

That one line is the most BS I've read this entire thread.....J/K hope you guys have a good season...and as a Red Sox fan I agree that Fenway while historical is blah and has a lot of crappy seats.

Well I'm hoping you as a Red Sox fan that you expect your team to win the World Series in October. That would not offend me at all. Just as any other fan will want their team to win. As far as I know we might not win any game this coming summer. Still got to play the season.

Chuck

Fly Navy

[Thunderchief105]

While I like sports I prefer watching my local high school teams play. The kids play with much more heart and better a attitude than most of the millionaire players (imho). It seems like no mater which side of the field, court or ice your on everyone is there for the kids and its not about deals or lock outs or big money.

[redwoodmodels]

While I like sports I prefer watching my local high school teams play. The kids play with much more heart and better a attitude than most of the millionaire players (imho). It seems like no mater which side of the field, court or ice your on everyone is there for the kids and its not about deals or lock outs or big money.

Agreed. Plus playing sports does a lot for the kids. It's amazing the difference those experiences make in their lives. I was watching a softball game a few years ago and I couldn't help but be amazed by the connection between the mothers on the sidelines and their daughters on the field. The mothers, many of whom where once running those same bases 15 years earlier, watching/coaching their daughters, who will one day coach their daughters, who will coach their daughter, and so on. Plus, sports is where dads get to be dads. Teaching their girls to throw, catch, tactics...Guys where nothing else is working in their lives (ie lost jobs, divorce, etc) got to shine for their kids while they were teaching them how to play. This one guy I knew was so freaking beat down because of what happened to him this recession, but on the field coaching his kids, he became what I remember him as. Family is everything.

I think the other thing to remember is that if we're going to spend billions of our tax dollars (see previous page) on something while we're $14 Trillion in debt, it should be something that adds value to our country and our economy. You build a new high capacity bridge, electric power grid, highways, lakes/rivers for irrigation, and all the other infrastructure that the Chinese are currently building with our money, you add value to your country. Education adds value to your workforce. The experience kids and their families get from playing sports makes them more valuable to our economy.

Going even deeper into debt and raising taxes so these guys can get multi-million dollar salaries is a horrific waste of money when there are lots of people who'd love to play for free and who need the experience they'll get from doing so.

Minimum wage is $15,080. You could double the income of 10,600 minimum wage earners with that ONE guy's paycheck. All of those people want to spend money. They want buy food for their families. They want to pay bills. They want to go places and cant. They want to have health care and cant afford insurance. Half of Americans earn less than $32,000 per year (2 minimum wage jobs per family). A HUGE proportion of Americans can't afford to live in America anymore. Giving that money to those people generates economic activity. Demand creates jobs. You hire people to make something you can sell. Period. So, we need people to be able to buy stuff.

Spending billions (especially when you're spending taxpayer money - they say higher taxes kills jobs) on professional sports is like buying a 52 inch plasma screen TV when you're going bankrupt and can't afford food and rent. I think while we're $14 Trillion in the red and the economy is in the toilet, we really can't afford to spend billions to subsidize professional sports. Especially when the kids are so much more entertaining.

Sorry for all the edits. I need caffeine this morning.

Edited January 7, 2012 by redwoodmodels

[CorsairMan]

Going even deeper into debt and raising taxes so these guys can get multi-million dollar salaries is a horrific waste of money when there are lots of people who'd love to play for free and who need the experience they'll get from doing so.

Aside from governments funding the building of stadiums (something I will never be behind) and is a benefit for millionaire owners, I don't see how tax money goes to professional athletes.

[camaroz06]

Spending billions (especially when you're spending taxpayer money - they say higher taxes kills jobs) on professional sports is like buying a 52 inch plasma screen TV when you're going bankrupt and can't afford food and rent. I think while we're $14 Trillion in the red and the economy is in the toilet, we really can't afford to spend billions to subsidize professional sports. Especially when the kids are so much more entertaining.

What billions are you talking about? I do look at those numbers you posted earlier with skepticism.

And I'm going to say it, anything under college level (for me) isn't very entertaining. Maybe if I ever have a kid and get to watch them play it would be different.

I get where you are coming from but there are many more things wrong that need to be fixed before we start bitching about professional athletes salaries.

Edited January 7, 2012 by camaroz06

[redwoodmodels]

Aside from governments funding the building of stadiums (something I will never be behind) and is a benefit for millionaire owners, I don't see how tax money goes to professional athletes.

Aside from the billions spent on the stadium, you loose the revenue the money could have generated if it was spent on something that generated revenue. For example, according to Mark Zandi at Moody's, every $1 spent on nonrefundable tax credits generates $1.01 in economic activity. So for every dollar you spend on that you earn a penny. However, every $1 spent on food stamps generates $1.79 in economic activity because the people receiving food stamps spend every single cent they earn (poor = spend more than you earn) while the people getting the tax credits don't (rich = earn more than you spend). So you loose $.78 cents on every dollar spent that way. For sports, we're loosing the money that money could have created.

Also, we spend billions on these stadiums and to pay for it, we either raise taxes (which they say kills jobs = lost revenue) or we cut spending (demand = jobs, which means more lost revenue). Plus, because we're in a massive deficit, the money were spending is borrowed, which means the taxpayer is on the hook for the interest on that debt. Not only that, but most of the cuts come from education (always the first cut)which means we loosing both the spending and devaluing our workforce because they're not as well educated as they would be, which lowers their earning ability long term. So not only are we loosing money on the money were spending (lost earnings on the money), but spending the money is also costing us tons of money in several different ways with long term compounding losses because of the kind of money it is (tax dollars during a defict).

Then there's the 0% interest taxpayer funded loans and bonds and other nonsense they're getting. That interest is lost income for the US taxpayer because we could have loaned that money to someone that would have paid us for it.

Then there's the money lost when these sports teams overspend. If they can't pay back those 0% interest taxpayer loans, the taxpayers are out the money they borrowed. Even if it isn't our money we loaned, the governments (city, state, federal) in order to coax the teams to exist in a specific city guaranteed those loans, so if they don't pay, it becomes taxpayer debt.

Then there's the tax revenue lost because of the sweetheart deals they get in the form of tax credits/cuts. If these sports teams are a business like everyone says they are, they should be paying taxes like every other business, right? Why aren't they? Why is the crap they sell in the stadiums tax free for the people selling it? Why aren't the teams themselves paying taxes on their revenue like Bob's tire shop around the corner does?

What billions are you talking about? I do look at those numbers you posted earlier with skepticism.

Here's two more sources:

"For example, from 1994–2000 owners of professional sports teams spent over $8 billion on building new stadiums and arenas and another $1 billion renovating existing facilities. Funding of $5.4 billion, approximately 60%, came from state and local governments. The public largesse since then appears to be increasing, if anything. A leading textbook on sports economics reported that 25 new stadiums and arenas were scheduled to open from 2000 to 2006. They would receive $5.5 billion in public funding, an average subsidy of $220 million per facility and equal to 63% of the total funding."

1

1 The data from 1994–2000 are from Rappaport, J., and Wilkerson, C. (2001) What Are the Benefits of Hosting a Major League Sports Franchise?, Economic Review, First Quarter 2001, Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank, p. 57. The data from 2000–2006 are from Fort, R. (2006) Sports Economics, 2nd edn (Upper Saddle River, NJ: Pearson Prentice Hall), p. 338.

I found that in a report here: http://www.palgrave.com/economics/tresch/example/pdfs/Example20.3.pdf

And I'm going to say it, anything under college level (for me) isn't very entertaining. Maybe if I ever have a kid and get to watch them play it would be different.

That's fine, but these sports teams need to be economically viable without taxpayer subsidies just like we require of most small businesses. If that means no multimillion dollar salaries, then that's what they should deal with.

Let them survive on their own earnings instead of taxpayer dollars. Get rid of the antitrust exemptions and let them compete in a free market like small businesses have to. 80% of the jobs in America are created by small businesses. I don't think any business should be getting any benefit from anyone at any level of government that small businesses don't get. Let these professional sports teams compete on the same playing field all other businesses (and most Americans) have to compete on.

I get where you are coming from but there are many more things wrong that need to be fixed before we start bitching about professional athletes salaries.

And we're not going to have the money to fix any of those things as long as we're wasting it on over priced luxury items. Creating jobs should be our first priority because nothing else can happen until Americans can get a job. Right now, every single dollar we spend needs to be spent in whatever way generates as much economic activity as possible, adds value to our country, and adds value to our workforce. Those three things are where our money should go. Everything else is a luxury.

Edited January 7, 2012 by redwoodmodels

[TaiidanTomcat]

For example, according to Mark Zandi at Moody's, every $1 spent on nonrefundable tax credits generates $1.01 in economic activity. So for every dollar you spend on that you earn a penny. However, every $1 spent on food stamps generates $1.79 in economic activity because the people receiving food stamps spend every single cent they earn (poor = spend more than you earn) while the people getting the tax credits don't (rich = earn more than you spend). So you loose $.78 cents on every dollar spent that way.

Yeah My SWMBO is an Accountant and she says that is utterly false. Tax Credits do not work that way.

And Red, please don't try and convince me by linking to 100 sites. 1+1=3 is wrong no matter how many sites you link to.

As long as governments give away "free money" People from the poorest to the richest will line up to take it. whether its for a food stamp or a stadium. The "morality" or "rightness" of this will vary depending on who you ask and their political leanings, which is exactly why it doesn't belong here.

Edited January 7, 2012 by TaiidanTomcat