pixeluser Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hello, I hope you could help me, I am thinking to build "The Good Widow Mrs Jones". This was a helicopter from the 121st AHC. The only photo reference I found that shows the whole helicopter was in the Book "Vietnam the Helicopter War" by Philip D. Chinnery on page 132, here it shows an UH-1B with the filters for the engine from the UH-1C. I also know the drawings from Lou Drendel's book "Huey", here it is a UH-1D (http://www.vhpamuseum.org/art/art.shtml). There is also a picture of the Nose-Art here (http://www.vhpamuseum.org/art/images/jones.jpg). But I have no picture found which shows the whole Aircraft again. In the book John Brennan U.S. Army Helicopter Names in Vietnam there are two Helicotpers mentioned a UH-1B and a UH-1D. Does anyone have a picture of the UH-1D? Thx Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tippe69 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Hi Jan, Planes, Names & Dames by Larry Davis (Vol III) has a phot on the page 43. Even tough the helicopter is only partially shown in the photo, there is the pitot tube visible at the nose (not at the roof top) typical to UH-1D (UH-1 Huey in action page 27) cheers, Tippe Edited January 7, 2012 by tippe69 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pixeluser Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hi Tippe, thx for your reply, but the photo in Planes, Names & Dames is just a crop of the original photo, and that photo is printed in the Book "Vietnam the Helicopter War" by Philip D. Chinnery on page 132, here it shows an UH-1B. The UH-1B has alos the pitot tube at the nose. If you look at the roof on Planes, Names & Dames you see clearly the head of the roto with the shape of an UH-1B or UH-1C Model, I am not sure if I am allowed to scan pictures to show the whole helicopter. cheers, Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Hi Tippe, thx for your reply, but the photo in Planes, Names & Dames is just a crop of the original photo, and that photo is printed in the Book "Vietnam the Helicopter War" by Philip D. Chinnery on page 132, here it shows an UH-1B. The UH-1B has alos the pitot tube at the nose. If you look at the roof on Planes, Names & Dames you see clearly the head of the roto with the shape of an UH-1B or UH-1C Model, I am not sure if I am allowed to scan pictures to show the whole helicopter. cheers, Jan Jan, The bird on P. 132 is a Uh-1B equipped with the M21 system. The rocket pod is a 7 shot M158 pod. At least the left and presumably both cabin doors have been removed. She has wind baffles behind the B pillar as well. Also, notice that both chin bubbles have been recently replaced as evidenced by the bare aluminum around their edges. Finally, I can see that she has had a UH-1C tail boom replacement. You can see the wide chord tail in the photo. However, she would still have the symmetrical narrow chord UH-1B horizontal stabs. HTH By the way, the particle separator you mentioned in the first post was not a UH-1C feature. It was fitted to most in country Uh-1B and UH-1C's after 1967. The first UH-1C's in country had the older bell mouth intakes just like the early UH-1B's. Ray Edited January 7, 2012 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pixeluser Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Jan, The bird on P. 132 is a Uh-1B equipped with the M21 system. The rocket pod is a 7 shot M158 pod. At least the left and presumably both cabin doors have been removed. She has wind baffles behind the B pillar as well. Also, notice that both chin bubbles have been recently replaced as evidenced by the bare aluminum around their edges. Finally, I can see that she has had a UH-1C tail boom replacement. You can see the wide chord tail in the photo. However, she would still have the symmetrical narrow chord UH-1B horizontal stabs. HTH By the way, the particle separator you mentioned in the first post was not a UH-1C feature. It was fitted to most in country Uh-1B and UH-1C's after 1967. The first UH-1C's in country had the older bell mouth intakes just like the early UH-1B's. Ray Hello Ray, do you have also Informations on the UH-1D bird? Mybe a picture? cheers Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tippe69 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks Jan for the info - I wish you could scan the whole photo :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fredbird Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Hello,I'm interested in this topic because I plan to make good old rotten Revell kit of the UH1-D of the widow Jones. joking aside, this is what nose art "The Good Widow Mrs. Jones" was painted on several helicopters or only one? is what this whole companie had nose art? happy new year at all! ;) Edited January 7, 2012 by fredbird Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pixeluser Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hello,I'm interested in this topic because I plan to make good old rotten Revell kit of the UH1-D of the widow Jones. joking aside, this is what nose art "The Good Widow Mrs. Jones" was painted on several helicopters or only one? is what this whole companie had nose art? happy new year at all! ;) Hello fredbird, mentioned to John Brennan there are only two ships with this nose art, not a whole companie. One was a UH-1B an the other probaly a UH-1D. From the UH-1B is known a picture, from the UH-1D only a drawing. I am looking for a picture of the UH-1D to proof its existence. Cheers Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hello fredbird, mentioned to John Brennan there are only two ships with this nose art, not a whole companie. One was a UH-1B an the other probaly a UH-1D. From the UH-1B is known a picture, from the UH-1D only a drawing. I am looking for a picture of the UH-1D to proof its existence. Cheers Jan I must admit that I'm really starting to question whether there was a UH-1D with that nose art. Not saying it isn't possible, but i certainly haven't ever seen it other than as a drawing. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pixeluser Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hello Ray, according to John Brennan there where two ships, one UH-1B with serial 63-08733 and the omnious UH-1D with the serial 65-09777. There are also some contributors listed, but tehe most of them are authors. So I am wondering ifbthere will be also a photo proof of the slick. If not I will stick for the UH-1B, but I don't think that it has the tailboom of the UH-1C. Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hello Ray, according to John Brennan there where two ships, one UH-1B with serial 63-08733 and the omnious UH-1D with the serial 65-09777. There are also some contributors listed, but tehe most of them are authors. So I am wondering ifbthere will be also a photo proof of the slick. If not I will stick for the UH-1B, but I don't think that it has the tailboom of the UH-1C. Jan Jan, I assure you that bird on page 132 has a UH-1C tailboom replacement. You can see the wide chord vertical tail in the photo. This was not at all unusual for Vietnam as UH-1B tailbooms experienced structural failures on a regular basis. You build it how you want though. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
copternameking Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Gentlemen, "The Good Widow Mrs Jones" was a 121st "D" model from about March - July of 68 and then on the "B" model from about Jan-April of 69. After the second crash, the pilot Rick Thomas retired the avionics door nose art and tried to bring it home in his whole baggage but someone, somewhere pulled her out of baggage during processing through Long Bin on his way home and never saw her again. Hope this helps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pixeluser Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Gentlemen, "The Good Widow Mrs Jones" was a 121st "D" model from about March - July of 68 and then on the "B" model from about Jan-April of 69. After the second crash, the pilot Rick Thomas retired the avionics door nose art and tried to bring it home in his whole baggage but someone, somewhere pulled her out of baggage during processing through Long Bin on his way home and never saw her again. Hope this helps This helps a lot, thank you for this Information. Kind regards Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Gentlemen, "The Good Widow Mrs Jones" was a 121st "D" model from about March - July of 68 and then on the "B" model from about Jan-April of 69. After the second crash, the pilot Rick Thomas retired the avionics door nose art and tried to bring it home in his whole baggage but someone, somewhere pulled her out of baggage during processing through Long Bin on his way home and never saw her again. Hope this helps This makes sense. Colonel Robin Olds used the name "Scat" on all the aircraft he flew in his career. The last was an F-4 with name "SCAT XXVII" which is preserved in the USAF Museum. Hugh Mills used "Miss Clawd" more than once on helicopters he flew, there is one of his named aircraft in the Army Aviation Museum. Nose art is much more the "property" of the individual who claims the idea and not so much the "property" of the aircraft it is painted on. What I find naive in this tale is that someone thought they could smuggle a fairly obvious sized piece of a US Army helicopter (considered "war material") out of Vietnam in his travel luggage. Even sending boxed souvenir purchases got inspected by military customs. Or it simply caught the eye of the inspector who decided to make the door his own. Maybe it sits in someone's home hanging on the wall Chris M Edited January 9, 2012 by Chief Snake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FM-Whip Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Gentlemen, "The Good Widow Mrs Jones" was a 121st "D" model from about March - July of 68 and then on the "B" model from about Jan-April of 69. After the second crash, the pilot Rick Thomas retired the avionics door nose art and tried to bring it home in his whole baggage but someone, somewhere pulled her out of baggage during processing through Long Bin on his way home and never saw her again. Hope this helps I can also verify that there was a 121st D model under that name. I saw a photo of it about 25 years ago but can't for the life of me remember where, and no, it was not Drendel's book. Anyway, the first "Widow" was definitely a D. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FM-Whip Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I can also verify that there was a 121st D model under that name. I saw a photo of it about 25 years ago but can't for the life of me remember where, and no, it was not Drendel's book. Anyway, the first "Widow" was definitely a D. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) One more thought (responding to my own post) - I've been having on off-line discussion with Chris Miller about this. My memory may be faulty - I'm pretty sure I saw such a photo in some publication but it's been so long that I can't pin it down. So my original statement [Anyway, the first "Widow" was definitely a D"] may be faulty. Logically, I'd say that until somebody comes up with a definite photo of a D-model "Widow" or a 121st vet can verify it, it should be regarded only as a possible maybe. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I have come to find that there ARE two different paint executions of the Good Widow Mrs Jones. It also seems very likely that they are painted on two different aircraft, A UH-1D and a UH-1B. Anyone here is going to be able to verify this by looking where I direct you. But first, I think that there are TWO different paintings, not one door switched from a UH-1D to a UH-1B. I say this because the nose doors are different between the models. The UH-1B part numbers and the NSN are not the same as those of the UH-1D. There are subtle differences in the door, I know this for a fact after having worked on and flown on UH-1's. You can't just take them off and switch them, hence two paintings. On the VHPA Museum website under aircraft art is very nice color picture of the nose art. It was submitted by Lowell Einex. Also on that page is the cover of the Huey book featuring the Drendel painting of a UH-1D with that same art work. If this situation was not true, I for one believe the members of the 121st AHC Veterans Association would point it out. In Chinnery's book on page 132 is a UH-1B with the same nose art. But it's not exactly the same. As with all art done by hand, it cannot be exactly the same. And there is a glaring difference. The painting pictured on the VHPA website has a semi-nude figure of a woman who does not have any panties on. You can see her pubic hair. In the photo of the UH-1B, the woman wears panties. Two different paintings. Examine the details between the two even further and you find the spacing of the text over her head is different. Take a look at the tiger, the nose and mouth are different. If you want to spend just five minutes looking at these two photos you will conclude, as have I, that two paintings existed. My belief is they were probably painted on two different aircraft. So the art work Drendel did is based on the UH-1D that existed and the UH-1B is photographed in whole. Chris M Edited January 13, 2012 by Chief Snake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FM-Whip Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The painting pictured on the VHPA website has a semi-nude figure of a woman who does not have any panties on. You can see her genital hair. In the photo of the UH-1B, the woman wears panties. Two different paintings. I think this may be a first - the mention of "genital hair" in a helicopter modeling context! John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think this may be a first - the mention of "genital hair" in a helicopter modeling context! John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) I think he spent too much time in the bush... I am so sorry..... I couldn't resist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I could be missing something, but for sure the boxing of the UH-1D by Dragon has only part of the decal for the Good Widow Mrs Jones nose art. I looked very carefully all over the decal sheet and examined the instructions for decal placement and the text for "The Good Widow Mrs Jones" is not supplied.I don't see the artwork at all on the sheet made by Fireball Modelworks that has a 121st slick on it. This sort of puts a damper on using the artwork on any UH-1D or UH-1B kit. Unless you know someone who is a pretty good decal artist and can print out a small run for you. Chris M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think this may be a first - the mention of "genital hair" in a helicopter modeling context! John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Ok, I fixed it. CM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pixeluser Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I could be missing something, but for sure the boxing of the UH-1D by Dragon has only part of the decal for the Good Widow Mrs Jones nose art. I looked very carefully all over the decal sheet and examined the instructions for decal placement and the text for "The Good Widow Mrs Jones" is not supplied.I don't see the artwork at all on the sheet made by Fireball Modelworks that has a 121st slick on it. This sort of puts a damper on using the artwork on any UH-1D or UH-1B kit. Unless you know someone who is a pretty good decal artist and can print out a small run for you. Chris M Hello Chris, sorry I do most my models in 1/72 so I have two old sheets from Microscale with the Whole Nose Art including the text. http://gdora.web.fc2.com/bargain/ssdecal/ss72497.jpg Also the Old ESCI Kit 9046 - UH1 First ACAV with soldiers in 1/72 had this nose art.: http://henk.fox3000.com/Esci/9046/06.jpg But also without the text. Cheers Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hello Chris, sorry I do most my models in 1/72 so I have two old sheets from Microscale with the Whole Nose Art including the text. http://gdora.web.fc2.com/bargain/ssdecal/ss72497.jpg Also the Old ESCI Kit 9046 - UH1 First ACAV with soldiers in 1/72 had this nose art.: http://henk.fox3000.com/Esci/9046/06.jpg But also without the text. Cheers Jan Shame on me, I was thinking 1/35th scale where I know for sure the decal partially exists. As you say other scales obviously have some version or the other of the artwork. I am not a fan of small scale so I certainly had no idea about those. Chris M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrazyCat Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Sorry, hit the wrong key the first time around and know can't delete this post Edited January 16, 2012 by KrazyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrazyCat Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Gentlemen, here it is, the indisputable proof that the Good widow was indeed painted on a UH-1D as well: Actually, it appears that 65-09777 had been converted to "H" standard by the time this photo was taken. Hope this helps :) Marko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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