Voodoo man 101 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 WOW, that is amazing. watching this one closly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) As i had stated earlier, I've been trying to concentrate on the cockpit but unfortunately i haven't been able to find the time to do so. I instead decided to tinker with the windscreen and came across a bit of a serious issue. I guess I'm really aiming at asking anyone who has already built the Monogram A-6. The following pictures show how the windscreen fits poorly on one side when located properly on the other. It seems as though either the windscreen is too narrow or the fuselage is too wide in that immediate area. I can squeeze that area of the fuselage with my fingers to meet with the windscreen but not without quite a bit of pre-load. Not sure if this condition is caused by me and all the detail I added in the surrounding area causing a tweak in the fuselage or if others have experienced the same "fit"condition. I know I can squeeze the fuselage when I finally glue it together and make the windscreen fit but I'm concerned the pre-load will one day eventually weaken the glue causing the fuselage/windscreen join to fail and cause a major seperation. Anyway, just wondering if this is a typical Monogram fit issue. Edited August 23, 2012 by wardog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Fey Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 As i had stated earlier, I've been trying to concentrate on the cockpit but unfortunately i haven't been able to find the time to do so. I instead decided to tinker with the windscreen and came across a bit of a serious issue. I guess I'm really aiming at asking anyone who has already built the Monogram A-6. The following pictures show how the windscreen fits poorly on one side when located properly on the other. It seems as though either the windscreen is too narrow or the fuselage is too wide in that immediate area. I can squeeze that area of the fuselage with my fingers to meet with the windscreen but not without quite a bit of pre-load. Not sure if this condition is caused by me and all the detail I added in the surrounding area causing a tweak in the fuselage or if others have experienced the same "fit"condition. I know I can squeeze the fuselage when I finally glue it together and make the windscreen fit but I'm concerned the pre-load will one day eventually weaken the glue causing the fuselage/windscreen join to fail and cause a major seperation. Anyway, just wondering if this is a typical Monogram fit issue. Unfortunately, it's pretty common. At least with every one I've built. My usual fix is to center it so you have a bit of a ledge/step on either side, but it's centered. Once you've got it glued, then you can gently scrape w/ an Xacto blade till there's no joint. It's a tough one, but the best I've been able to do, because I've tried what you suggest, and yes, the canopy will separate with time. If you're leaving the canopy open, you're in luck, as that usually fits quite well, leaving you with another horrid gap between windscreen/canopy... HTH -Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) That rear deck is insanely detailed! And yes, I noticed the same canopy issue on my last build. I don't recall this being a problem with the original issue of the kit back in 1990? Or so, but then again there are a lot if things I don't recall from that time.... Edited August 23, 2012 by toadwbg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks for the feedback Peter and Toadwbg. Main reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to save me a lot of extra work. I've noticed the r/s of the fuselage is real rigid in that area and I'm thinking its because I epoxied the cutting edge intake to the side of the nose gear wheel well. I was gonna try and remove some glue to see if that lessens the rigidness but it sounds like that's not the issue. My next plan, and I've never tried this before, is to spread the windscreen in the affected area with a piece of styrene rod or something similar and dip in water that is close to boiling temp. I'm hoping this will weaken the windscreen and retain the width of the spreader bar. Should be fun if anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff C Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Awesome work. I had the same issue but what saved me was the IP cover. The issue with mine was that the canopy is too narrow at the bottom. When i test fit it without the IP cover in place as it appears in your photos, i got the same gap. Once I did a test fit with the cockpit and IP cover in place it spread the windscreen out to the proper width. Still my one big complaint about the fit on this kit is this area. Cliff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Awesome work. I had the same issue but what saved me was the IP cover. The issue with mine was that the canopy is too narrow at the bottom. When i test fit it without the IP cover in place as it appears in your photos, i got the same gap. Once I did a test fit with the cockpit and IP cover in place it spread the windscreen out to the proper width. Still my one big complaint about the fit on this kit is this area. Cliff Cliff, thanks for your input. If this is the Cliff who has the A-6 on the other site, awesome work. It's good to see completed Monogram Intruders. I actually have it saved under my favorites and I must admit I used a portion of the exhaust (A-4)idea. As of this moment I have a few ideas on how to deal with this issue so if they work I'll post the methods. Thanks again. Also, I tried registering on the other model site multiple times and would have commented on your build but I kept getting denied access. Eventually I just got over trying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff C Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Cliff, thanks for your input. If this is the Cliff who has the A-6 on the other site, awesome work. It's good to see completed Monogram Intruders. I actually have it saved under my favorites and I must admit I used a portion of the exhaust (A-4)idea. As of this moment I have a few ideas on how to deal with this issue so if they work I'll post the methods. Thanks again. Also, I tried registering on the other model site multiple times and would have commented on your build but I kept getting denied access. Eventually I just got over trying. Yeah, that was my old build on Z-5 and glad you took away something to try. I've been stuck in a modeling rut ever since I finished it and thinking about starting a new intruder. Much of the work on the build I finished, I did 5 years ago and would like to do another Marine bird with the information I learned from the first build and the inspiration I get from looking at your work. Your attention to detail is off the charts and is one of, if not the best, detail work I've seen. Keep it moving along! Im not a big fan of the Kinetic intruder/prowler but they actually have the correctly shaped exhaust ducting that I may try and use on my next Revel build along with the metal tube and A-4 parts I used on the last build. Cliff Edited August 24, 2012 by Cliff C Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Cliff, thanks for the kind words. I too started this build a few years ago and looking back there are plenty of things I would change. I noticed Kinetic includes exhaust ducts for their Intruder but by the time I found that out my exhaust ducts were done. They probably would not have fit as good anyway. Like I said before, I used the A-4 exhaust idea but I took it a few steps further. They came out nice but trying to get both exhaust tubes and their bends to be mirror opposites of each other was brainracking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Well here's something that never happens. Apparently the model gods must be happy with me because dipping the windscreen in boiling water actually worked. I first cut a piece of styrene that was just a little wider than the width of the windscreen as the windscreen was too narrow to fit properly. I then wedged it at the point where the windscreen needed to be wider and dipped it in water that i boiled. I let it sit in the pot for about a minute and removed it.......problem solved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mareku Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow! Man, that one of the most fantastic build I´v seen here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cabo91 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 E.... Is that you? You still putting all of that detail in models and putting us mere mortals to shame? If it is...hello! I haven't seen you in a while and I'm just getting back into doing models again so keep me posted so that I have some ideas to go off of when I want to detail something! This looks awesome man! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Well after months and months of wanting to start working on the cockpit and finding excuses not to, I finally broke down. I planned on using the Black Box set as that was what I considered the best after market kit available. The kit does suffer from some inaccuracies but none so terrible that it makes the kit unusable. The resin is well casted with the details being smooth and crisp. Since then, Wolfpack released their own cockpit kit for the A-6 and is marketed for both the Kinetic and Monogram kits. I could not help but purchase this kit to do my own comparison. Although the WP offering seems to be more accurate overall, it's apparent once I tried dry fitting it that it was more than likely designed for the Kinetic kit. I'm sure that with enough elbow grease you could probably get it to fit okay. I had to trim the instrument shroud extensively on the L/S or else the front windscreen would not fit. The shroud is also taller than the Black box shroud giving the effect of limited frontal field of view for the aircrew. Although the shroud seems to be more accurate in detail than the BB shroud, as well as giving the instrument panel more (external) visibility by virtue of it's height and angle placement, I reluctantly decided against it's use due to it's negative points for the Monogram kit. Finally, the casting or crispness of the details of the WP cockpit are inferior to the BB, at least in my case. In an effort to use all possible options with the WP kit, I even tried dry fitting the WP shroud/instrument panel onto the BB cockpit tub but the overall fit was still less than desirable. The next two pics show just how much more visible the WP instrument panel is compared to the BB. Although not perfect, I tried taking both pics at the same angle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 The next few pics show where I had to trim the WP shroud to make it fit. This area would have had to be eventually built back up to avoid huge gaps visible through the windscreen. The pics also show the surface differences of the shrouds with the wrinkle effect of the BB piece being less accurate, at least from what I can tell from my reference material. The last pic shows the limited field of view for the aircrew when using the WP shroud/instrument panel with the windscreen taped in place and the HUD yet to be added. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Here are some views of how the BB kit fits from the rear and the side. It's readily apparent how much better it fits and clearly visible is how much lower the instrument shroud sits. The other pic shows where the WP shroud had to be trimmed to make it fit. I did forget to mention earlier that I did try dry fitting the entire WP cockpit but I had huge gaps where the tub meets the fuselage sides so it's use was completely out of the question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NJJK Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Any modifications needed to make the tub fit into the fuselage halves? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Any modifications needed to make the tub fit into the fuselage halves? NJJK,not sure which cockpit tub you're referring to but the BB fits okay except for the fact i had to grind off the majority of the casting block. This could be due to the fact my A-6 is heavily modified in the area right below the tub itself. As far as the WP cockpit is concerned, i first separated the rear deck from the tub as I'm using the BB piece. I dry fitted the tub with the only modification being grinding away the casting block beneath the tub floor. From my experience, the one piece that's really affecting the proper fit of the WP tub is the instrument shroud. I never tried dry fitting the WP tub with the BB shroud and either instrument panel so maybe there is a combination that will work. I just figure I'd try a few options and go with works best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 It's been a while since I've posted anything mainly because family life has been taking It's toll on what little time I have for modeling. I've been trying to figure out what I'm going to do with the instrument panel and although I have figured out a few things I still have a long way to go. I'm going to use the Eduard photo-etched piece for the bombardier side and make my own panel for the pilot side. The following pics show the instrument panel with the photo-etched piece for the pilot temporary located just to show what it looks like. Although I do like how these painted instrument panels look, I don't like the fact they are two dimensional. In order to build up on them, I'm going to add switches and buttons to give it more character. Unfortunately, the pics don't really do justice to the instrument panel as the digital camera makes it look totally different than to the naked eye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Since I had an extra resin instrument panel I decided to separate the bombardier shroud so I could hollow out the area where the screen is located and add a piece of clear styrene. The clear piece is located just for the pic but I'll paint it a greenish color prior to installing it permanently. Although I haven't started it yet, I plan on also scratch building the screen for the pilot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 The next few pics show what I did to the Wolfpack instrument panel to steal a small panel from it. I'll eventually use this on the Blackbox instrument panel along with the buttons/switches from the spare Blackbox panel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
coneheadff Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 At last...More progress!!!! Curious how you gonna make those tiny switches on the PE parts Cheers, Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 At last...More progress!!!! Curious how you gonna make those tiny switches on the PE parts Cheers, Alex Coneheadff, I'm also curious. Been trying to brainstorm ideas but I've yet to come up with a decent solution that yields buttons and switches that aren't crooked. I tried cutting the switches off of some of the spare resin instrument panels with a razor blade but they came out with an angle at the base and they are too small to sand even. I have some other possible ideas but i yet to try them out so we'll see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 What fuel will this thing run off? Have you got people small enough to fly it even? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dsahling Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I can't wait to see this thing when its got some paint on it, superb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 What fuel will this thing run off? Have you got people small enough to fly it even? LOL. For now i plan on using standard JP-5 and i do have a couple of vertically challenged airmen studying the NATOPS A-6 manual in preparation for it's maiden flight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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