chuck540z3 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Guys, I've been lurking here now and then and I keep reading thread after thread about how folks are having a bad time with Alclad paint. I also used to have my own issues with the stuff, but then I discovered- here in this forum- the FIX for just about every Alclad headache known such as an uneven finish, attacking the undercoat (and wrinkling it up) or poor adhesion so that masking is difficult, if not impossible. The FIX is very simple: Use a lacquer gloss black undercoat- and from what I've also read, don't use Alclad's own primer. Here's an example on a recent build, using decanted Krylon gloss black lacquer. BEFORE: AFTER: I have masked this area off many times and the Alclad paint stays put and remains smooth. The secret is adhesion of the lacquer based Alclad paint to the lacquer gloss black. Gloss black enamel paint can work too, but in my experience it takes forever to dry (2 weeks+) and you still might have adhesion issues. I was painting Alclad over the black lacquer primer within 24 hours. I know this "tip" isn't news to many of you, but it seems that the message isn't getting through to everyone. Good luck Guys! Edited January 23, 2012 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel111 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Chuck, thanks for the tip. I will be using Alclad for the 1st time on my Flanker so I need al the help I can get. I used to use SNJ but it's impossible to get a hold of here. What brand of lacquer paint is there that you can get at normal stores? Cheers, Marcel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Netz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I know this "tip" isn't news to many of you, but it seems that the message isn't getting through to everyone. Good luck Guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Chuck, thanks for the tip. I will be using Alclad for the 1st time on my Flanker so I need al the help I can get. I used to use SNJ but it's impossible to get a hold of here. What brand of lacquer paint is there that you can get at normal stores? Cheers, Marcel Marcel I'll bet most lacquer based sprays would work, but I used Krylon because it was recommended by someone here- and now I can recommend the same stuff, but with a twist. I use the Krylon Fusion sprays because they're actually made for plastic. http://www.krylon.com/products/fusion_for_plastic/ Here's another "tip". The gloss white lacquer is great for gear wells and other areas that need a gloss white. Since it dries so darn fast, you can keep re-coating until you get it right- the first time. Try doing that with gloss white enamel! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kinnies Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi, Krylon paint is generally very good. As an airliner modeler primarily, I have been using it for quite a while. The gloss black is particularly recommended for alclad polished aluminum. I believe that gloss white is recommended for the chrome but you'd need to check the alclad website. The surface preperation has to be perfect for a perfect job - which yours seems to be Chuck. Krylon is cheap, works really well with the airbrush, covers quickly and dries really fast. However, it is hot, so you need to use the grey (not white or red) primer. It is not without its problems, however. On occassion it causes paint to crinkle. There is a brief discussion of this on the airliner forum. I am still not one hundred percent sure why this has happened. Marcel: You might try automotive paint. If it is lacquer, it should work. I also use automotive paint on my airliners, and find it better than Krylon, but it tends to be twice as expensive and you get less. By the way, Krylon flat black and flat white are super. Best flat black I have ever used. period. But again, you need to use the grey primer first. I've also used the Krylon Fusion gloss white and find the regular Krylon gloss white to be shiner (for what its worth). Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drhornii Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I use Tamiya gloss black and have had no problems...Alclad primer not so good..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Testors MM Gloss Black has always worked very well and in the same manner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galileo1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, I guess Mr. Color (which is lacquer bases) should work then. I'll be giving it try. Thanks for the tip, Chuck! Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Testors MM Gloss Black has always worked very well and in the same manner As I mentioned, it works, but for me it takes forever to dry, so I don't bother with it any more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie Cheetah Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I wonder if the Testors "One Coat" laquers would work Alclad then. I have used the Testors gloss black eneamel spray as a base forAlsclad and it works great but like othdes have said, takes forever to dry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This Krylon, do you spray it on directly from the Krylon spraycan even though it is a spraycan? I mean it would seem a bit harsh to use a spraycan on your models finish, or is this not an issue as the formula is decanted?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tbell Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Krylon is best decanted from the spray bomb and airbrushed on for two reasons: one, as mentioned above, it's a bit hot and best results are achieved over a coat of primer (I use Mr. Surfacer 1000), and two, it goes on too heavy out of the can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 This Krylon, do you spray it on directly from the Krylon spraycan even though it is a spraycan? I mean it would seem a bit harsh to use a spraycan on your models finish, or is this not an issue as the formula is decanted?! As mentioned earlier, I decanted it. I also found that it was a bit too thick coming straight out of the can, so I added a little lacquer thinner and sprayed it in light coats, letting it dry for about 5 minutes between each coat. If you do it that way, it won't have a chance to react with the plastic. I also didn't use a primer, because I didn't find it necessary. The cool thing about this paint is that it has a lot of other uses when you need gloss black. This radome was dry to the touch in 5 minutes and I could sand it in 30 minutes. Because it's so thin, but still covers, the paint ridge line where it meets the green paint was minimal..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I did latch onto the Alclad paints a couple of years back but as this stuff is so rarely seen in store shelves in my neck of the wood, and knowing it would take some time to get all the "facts" on the table regarding the use of this paint-system, i am still not at the stage where the cap comes of the Alclad bottle. After recently joining this fine forum, i have come across the term lacquer, but i always presumed acrylics/enamels/thinners covered the paint section. So what is the difference between a lacquer and an enamel? To me a lacquer sounds like some sort of thinner. Also adding to the confusion is ofcourse what can/cannot be mixed with what "Danger Will Robinson" Just have to get this straight once and for all.. Edited January 24, 2012 by breadneck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flyfort17 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, I guess Mr. Color (which is lacquer bases) should work then. I'll be giving it try. Thanks for the tip, Chuck! Rob Mr Color will NOT work with alclad. Ask me how I know. For some reason Alclad will not adhere. The Alclad will rub right off after it dries. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alien Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This Krylon, do you spray it on directly from the Krylon spraycan even though it is a spraycan? I mean it would seem a bit harsh to use a spraycan on your models finish, or is this not an issue as the formula is decanted?! I have used Krylon straight from the can and decanted. The spray from the can goes on a little thick, but when it dries (I wait 48 hours) I get the shiniest, smoothiest, black I have ever seen. Then when spraying Alclad II highly polished or chrome you can see the Alclad trying to clasp to the black Krylon. One problem I have had, is that the Krylon will crinkle in some spots. I don't know if this is what is called being hot? When I sand the crinkling down, the Krylon did not effect the plastic. I have also tried to put Krylon over White Tamiya primer. Same effects as putting Krylon directly on the plastic. I have sprayed on decanted Krylon with an airbrush. Could never get it as shiny as directly from the can, therefore Alclad did not come out as shiny. When I was unable to avoid the crinkling of the Krylon, I sanded the Krylon to a flat black and sprayed Future over it. The flat black became a gloss black. I sprayed High polished Aluminum over the future and obtained a nice shinny finnish, slightly less bright then using only Krylon fromthe spray can. The first 2 aircraft were made using Krylon straight from the can. The last was from decanted Krylon. By the way, the black on the Cf-104 is decanted Krylon STEPHEN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Mr. Color paints make up about 80% of my inventory and I've never had any issues with putting Alclad over them - although generally Alclads go on before the other colors as their adhesion is so phenomenal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel111 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ok, so I want to give the Krylon a try. Can anybody advise how to decant it... I am assuming it only comes in a spray can? Thanks, Marcel PS Anybody tried using Humbrol Gloss Black as a base? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ok, so I want to give the Krylon a try. Can anybody advise how to decant it... I am assuming it only comes in a spray can? Thanks, Marcel Hey Marcel, To decant the spray can, I just sprayed it through a wide straw into a glass paint jar, using my hand with a rubber glove to hold the straw in the jar and keep the spray from splashing up. It sprayed up a bit alright, but nothing too traumatic. I let it sit for a few minutes to let the propellant evaporate, then I added a bit of lacquer thinner because it comes out of your airbrush too thick if you don't. Hope that makes sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Bingo on the gloss black Krylon. $3.47 per can @ Wallyworld. I also like Alclad. The first time I used their high gloss Chrome was a 1/48 scale prop hub from a Beechcraft Staggerwing. A friend wanted to put Propblurs on the model. Anyway,I painted the part (wood) with gloss black Krylon. I then put the Chrome in a Paasche Talon and dialed the pressure waaaay down. I started dusting the Chrome on and the magic began. I stopped after it looked about right. The Propblurs came out great. Edited October 31, 2012 by balls47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Know what else works? Good old Future. I sprayed this polished aluminum Alclad over nothing but a base coat of Future. I was even able to mask over it to paint the nose without pulling up any Alclad finish once totally dry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Know what else works? Good old Future. That's great to know Tate, because I plan on doing something similar to the late stages of a current build covered in Future, so I'm glad to see that adhesion is not likely an issue. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PetarB Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Here's my latest with Alclad, I put it on over Tamiya gloss black spraybomb: Edited January 26, 2012 by PetarB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Ive found the big cans of Krylon paint are very good. Another thing i have found is they store very well. I usually have pretty big baby food bottles laying around and fill them up with the bigger spray cans you get a hole lot more bang for your buck. I tip the can upside down and release all of the propellent from the can then i puncture the can with a screw driver and pour the paint into my jars. let the paint sit for about 5 minutes like said above and then cap them off. ive found i can have these paints around for about 2 months if they are kept shaken up. Also when painting straight from the krylon can if you find the paint is to thick or covering way to quickly fill a bowl up with hot water from your tap and let the paint can sit in the water for about 10 minutes. with colder temperatures the paint has a very thick consistancy. When you warm it up it thins the paint dramaticaly changing the way the can sprays. Hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JamesHavoc Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Here's my latest with Alclad, I put it on over Tamiya gloss black spraybomb: Im so confused after searching Alclad II on ARC. <_< Im new modelling and wish to paint jet exhausts using Alclad II. Was the Tamiya gloss black enamel or acrylic paint? Can I use either enamel or acrylic black gloss? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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