David Rapasi Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) I have two P 47s (D22 & D30) to build for a project. The aircraft are from the 362nd Fighter Group / 378th Fighter Squadron. The color on the nose and spinner is Cobalt Blue. I cannot find any color information about these aircraft or about Cobalt Blue, except this from Air Force Colors Vol. 2, and a Google search. I need to know the correct color for the nose of these aircraft, please include the color chip so I can match it to Model Master paint. Your help will be appreciated. Dave Edited January 21, 2013 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prop Duster Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 cobalt info ; as for the paint scheme I'm sure others will come to the rescue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpeck Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't think the 378 FS had blue noses. I want to say green but I need to find out. Chris Bucholtz has done research on this group so he might repond here soon. Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I found this video from Zeno's Warbirds about the 362nd FG. I couldn’t copy the video frame from Window’s Media Player to Photo Shop, so I put the video on pause and placed Adobe Photo Shop on top of it. I matched the color chip by eye to the nose of the P 47. The colors in this picture are not accurate because it is a photo of the monitor. This picture was used just to demonstrate the process. The Model Master Enamel paint mix is approximately 44% black, 28% white, with 28% MM 2012 Cobalt Blue. Dave PS My monitor is calibrated using the Adobe Photo Shop Gamma Wizard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 How do you account for the multiple generations removed from the original image the one you're using is? Ten seconds in Photoshop with any image you find online and I could convince you the cowling was purple. I appreciate the idea of what you're attempting to do, but in the real world it just doesn't work that way. There are *****way**** too many variables involved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobrahistorian Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 David, I've done some research into the 362nd FG (primarily the 377th FS, since one of the uniforms in my collection belonged to one of their pilots) and I'm fairly certain they did use blue as the squadron color. However, it was a deeper blue than what you're showing. The color film footage is great, but it looks overexposed to begin with and has badly faded over time. You're not getting an accurate representation of the original color, so matching to what you're seeing isn't going to give you an accurate representation. Looking forward to seeing more. Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil marchese Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just as a point of dparture for discussion and an attempt to visualize Jon s input try what 230 80 40 looks like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rpeck Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I found this on Criticalpast very end of the clip. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675047599_P-47-Thunderbolt-fighter-planes_diamond-formation_aerial-view-of-countryside_P-47s-peeling-off The green part I was thinking was wrong,not sure what I was thinking. Looks like CriticalPast has some new clips on P-47's. Will post any I find on the 378 FS. Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) ok Edited December 16, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil marchese Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Dave. Agree with your object and to save tonnage paint was as likely as not local purchase. I m seeing the color a lot bluer and intense. If 240 blue hue the blues range is +/- 30 or 210 ~ 269. Your in the aquamarine range. Recommend you go 225 235 range keep the intensity high and give it that combat dullness and gray you are seeing. Buy the b/w ratio. Again , if I'm visualizing the system right. Id recommend a jump off point. Nera 230 80 52 . ...opinion n recommended starting point only. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 "For some reason no one seems to understand that I DON’T CARE what color the real aircraft were painted. ... Every time I have asked for help, I either get guesses or some ones opinion, never any facts." I've been following your color requests for awhile now and this the first mention of your actual goals. I, for one, have assumed you've been trying to duplicate actual wartime colors. Pretty much everyone else seems to think the same. Thus your difficulty in getting the answers you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) he's just trying to find a way to match more objectively that using the easily tricked eyeball method and matching to a photo is what every single model builder that actually builds models is doing if I buy a decal sheet, and go by the color guide and placement guide,,,I am matching to a photo, without actually seeing it, going on trust and the use of the color standard (and, ummm, "Smuckatellie's Great and Wonderful Decal Sheets, Inc" generated their artwork and color guide based on looking at photos, and "eyeball" color interpretation**) he's just looking for a way to take out the human bias, and give the model customer what he wants,,,,,,,,while still being stuck with the paint palette of "paints available" that will stick to styrene **if they didn't, and they used a computer to read the colors,,,,they are holding that info back from the customers,,,,,but, I don't think any of them have more than the usual Color Software "eyedropper tool" that we all have access too, if we want it Edited February 28, 2012 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) ok Edited December 16, 2012 by David Rapasi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil marchese Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think your dcans picked up the highlights refelecting clouds and that the paint and the appearance are much bluer than your gray aqua sample if you want an educated feedback. However go. With what you want. PS FROM A CUSTOMER PERSPECTIVE EXPECTATION I D ERR ON THE SIDE OF TOO BLUE OVER TOO GRAY. CAPS UNINTENTIONAL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) The header at the top of the page says Aircraft Modeling Forums, this is what every one here on this forum has questions about. The models are built using wartime colors, so therefore a reference to actual wartime colors is used. When someone asks what color is this aircraft, it is for the purpose of painting a model aircraft. I didn’t think the question was that difficult. Dave Well, matching the actual colors used is one thing. You insist on matching colors in photos and that's a different thing. You haven't explicitly stated your methodology, which is to get color info from the photo then extrapolate the actual color. AND that you're doing this only for inconclusive photo evidence where this methodology makes sense. Which is fascinating, by the way. I'm just trying to clarify why some people seem to fixate on the wrong aspect of your work. Edited February 29, 2012 by Slartibartfast Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Rapasi Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 These are a few photos of the finished 378th FS P-47s models. The D-22 was a bare metal replacement painted in the field. Colors used on the model; ANA 603 Sea Gray / Neutral Gray ANA 613 Olive Drab The Cobalt Blue color used on the nose of the 378th Squadron models was a custom mix using Model Master 2031 Blue FS 35109 as the base color that I tinted to match the color photos. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) These are a few photos of the finished 378th FS P-47s models. The D-22 was a bare metal replacement painted in the field. Colors used on the model; ANA 603 Sea Gray / Neutral Gray ANA 613 Olive Drab The Cobalt Blue color used on the nose of the 378th Squadron models was a custom mix using Model Master 2031 Blue FS 35109 as the base color that I tinted to match the color photos. Dave FWIW, to my eye those noses look indubitably blue :) , and, seriously, I'd say it's a very plausible rendition, given there's no way you'll ever be able to do a one-to-one comparison with the real thing. Pip Edited January 21, 2013 by seawinder Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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