Q: Alcalad over future — as in painting canopy frames? 1/32 Tamiya P

[jungle]

Hi all.

It's been a little while since I've posted to the ARC forums. I'm hoping all of you talented model builders can help me out with an issue I've encountered while building Tamiya's 1/32 P-51 D Mustang.

I'm not super familiar with Alcalad II paint, though I have finished a 1/48 scale Mustang with good results using it. I've also used in on many parts and small sub assemblies on models that didn't have natural metal finishes.

Having said that, the problem I have with the Tamiya kit as that the canopy frame is attached to the canopy, it is one clear piece. ( See the attached photo if you're not familiar with the kit. ) The canopy has a seem running down the center that needs to be polished out. Normally, as a final step to the polishing process, I would dip the canopy in Future and leave it to dry for a couple of days before painting. ( I dip all my canopies in Future whether they need polished or not, I also normally use all acrylic paints. )

I am well aware of the "lacquers first, enamels second, acrylics can be painted on anything" rule. Is there a way to cheat this rule?

The questions I have are as follows:

1. Should I attempt to paint the canopy frame with laquer black and Alcalad aluminum on top of the future?

2. Is there another way to achieve a shiny canopy without using Future?

3. Does anyone out there have a proven technique for dealing with this situation. Perhaps a masking solution, or something else?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[Aigore]

Hi all.

It's been a little while since I've posted to the ARC forums. I'm hoping all of you talented model builders can help me out with an issue I've encountered while building Tamiya's 1/32 P-51 D Mustang.

I'm not super familiar with Alcalad II paint, though I have finished a 1/48 scale Mustang with good results using it. I've also used in on many parts and small sub assemblies on models that didn't have natural metal finishes.

Having said that, the problem I have with the Tamiya kit as that the canopy frame is attached to the canopy, it is one clear piece. ( See the attached photo if you're not familiar with the kit. ) The canopy has a seem running down the center that needs to be polished out. Normally, as a final step to the polishing process, I would dip the canopy in Future and leave it to dry for a couple of days before painting. ( I dip all my canopies in Future whether they need polished or not, I also normally use all acrylic paints. )

I am well aware of the "lacquers first, enamels second, acrylics can be painted on anything" rule. Is there a way to cheat this rule?

The questions I have are as follows:

1. Should I attempt to paint the canopy frame with laquer black and Alcalad aluminum on top of the future?

2. Is there another way to achieve a shiny canopy without using Future?

3. Does anyone out there have a proven technique for dealing with this situation. Perhaps a masking solution, or something else?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

1. Yep,no probs with any of that on top of cured future.

2. Yep, polishing with micromesh and a polishing compound....or you could dip it into any clear coat of choice.

3. what I do is treat the clear part as any other part of the model....well of course the seam has to go first but after the future dip... just mask off the areas not to be painted and prime the surface before shooting alclad. you can shoot it directly on top of the future but that will give it a different since than if you have primed the rest of the model in black, it´ll be lighter. Important is to let future cure for at least 48 hours before doing anything on it!

[Spectre711]

Haven't use Alcalad yet but I would imagine that if you apply light coats and allow it to cure you will be OK.

I recently sprayed Polly Scale on the nose of a Phantom that was covered in Future and it looked beautiful at first. It developed cracks as it cured. Thought acrylic on well cured acrylic Future would be safe. Sanded it down a little to make it smooth and spray a few lite coats of MM Flat Black enamel and it came out fine.

I would give it a try on the clear sprue there to see how things work.

[72linerlover]

Hi, jungle

As far as the canopy frames are not to be painted with Hi-Shine Alclad (Polished Alu, Airframe Alu or Chrome), every enamel color will work as gray or white Tamiya primer as base. Only if the frame have to be Hi-Shine you need a gloss black base.

I'd avoid Future, this time.

Sand down your seam and polish with Tamiya polishing compound and/or white tooth paste. Wash thoroughly with dish soap and let dry.

Mask the transparency, shoot one base on your choice as said above. Next your Alclad.

If you are familiar with acrylics, and you have easy access to Talon Acrylics, go for it. Since acrylics they are totally compatible with Future if you really need to use it.

Regards

Euge

[jungle]

Thanks eveyone. Those are all great suggestions. I think what I am going to do is this…

I'll sand the seam and polish out the canopy as best I can. I have micro mesh pads, and Tamiya fine polishing compound so that should do the trick.

If it looks really good, I may forgo the Future treatment, then I have no issues?

Most likely though I'll want to dip the canopy in future. If so, I'll let it dry for quite some time before applying paint. I need to paint plack laquer or enamel first so the inside of the canopy is the correct color. Then I will paint the gray Alcalad primer with Alcalad Duraluminum on top of that. The primer and Duraluminum are what I'm using as a base on the rest of the plane.

Do you think that will work?

[MoFo]

Various thoughts:

1. Shouldn't have any issues spraying Alclad over the Future. Or any acrylic/enamel/lacquer black, then Alclad, as the case may be. To be safe, I'd mist on the paint, rather than spraying a heavier, wet coat, but that SHOULD be a needless precaution.

2. As mentioned, ultra fine grit paper and polish. If you do a thorough job polishing, you shouldn't need Future (personally, I don't buy the ultra-shiny canopy thing anyway). You *could* also use a wax on top, if you want (Tamiya do a modelling wax), but you're more likely to have issues with paint adhering over the wax than with Future, so I'd either skip it, or else mask off the bare plastic framing before application.

3. DO NOT USE MASKING SOLUTIONS IF YOU USE FUTURE. Most will attack/melt into the Future, and rip off large chunks of it when you remove the mask. Best case scenario, you'll have to re-dip the canopy, which may or may not cause problems with the paint (re-melting the Future under your Alclad). Worst case? You'll have to re-polish to level out the Future... then re-dip. I had this done to one of my canopies once... not pretty..

4. You probably don't need to shoot black -> primer -> Alclad. Just black -> Alclad is probably good enough. The different undercoat will give a subtly different shade to the Alclad, but nothing really major, more along the lines of barely-perceptible variety to your NMF. Alternatively, you could mask and paint INSIDE the canopy black, then mask/spray the exterior framing primer/Alclad. That would actually be the preferable route, since it'd give you the most realistic depiction of the real canopy framing... though it IS the most labourious route.

[jungle]

Various thoughts:

1. Shouldn't have any issues spraying Alclad over the Future. Or any acrylic/enamel/lacquer black, then Alclad, as the case may be. To be safe, I'd mist on the paint, rather than spraying a heavier, wet coat, but that SHOULD be a needless precaution.

2. As mentioned, ultra fine grit paper and polish. If you do a thorough job polishing, you shouldn't need Future (personally, I don't buy the ultra-shiny canopy thing anyway). You *could* also use a wax on top, if you want (Tamiya do a modelling wax), but you're more likely to have issues with paint adhering over the wax than with Future, so I'd either skip it, or else mask off the bare plastic framing before application.

3. DO NOT USE MASKING SOLUTIONS IF YOU USE FUTURE. Most will attack/melt into the Future, and rip off large chunks of it when you remove the mask. Best case scenario, you'll have to re-dip the canopy, which may or may not cause problems with the paint (re-melting the Future under your Alclad). Worst case? You'll have to re-polish to level out the Future... then re-dip. I had this done to one of my canopies once... not pretty..

4. You probably don't need to shoot black -> primer -> Alclad. Just black -> Alclad is probably good enough. The different undercoat will give a subtly different shade to the Alclad, but nothing really major, more along the lines of barely-perceptible variety to your NMF. Alternatively, you could mask and paint INSIDE the canopy black, then mask/spray the exterior framing primer/Alclad. That would actually be the preferable route, since it'd give you the most realistic depiction of the real canopy framing... though it IS the most labourious route.

Thank you for making me realize that in 1/32 scale It might be doable to paint the inside of the canopy without too much work. I think I'm going to give that a try. Thanks.