spaceman Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 As I've said, the LED light is still too bright to me. But that is for a fact that the LEDs were only once hung so provisionally under the Blast Shields, wherein the threading of thin wires (0.1 mm) was difficult enough. Since the LEDs have not had lampshades, light naturally radiates far too heavily on the environment. Secondly, I hope so, that the cold whiteness can be adapted towards a warm white like incandescent bulbs yet, maybe by dipping of the LEDs in epoxy resin so that it then looks something like as in this picture here. Source: NASA And so it all looks in daylight. What else is added, the effect is that the silver-colored pipes and fittings Valve skids the bright white still fairly reflect. But we'll get everything even a little bit better, I hope so. Or do I try it once the "sunny white/warm white" LEDs (left), here in comparison with "bright white". As one can see, the "sunny white/warm white" is much more pleasant and I like better. That should have been first time as a first small taste! Since one can certainly improve a lot, but all beginnings are difficult. And now I wish all of you Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Hot dang!!!!! Manfred you are incredible!!! Waaait a minute - You have a shrinking ray gun stashed somewhere, do you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I umm.... I ....... Yeah.... Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Manfred, The lights looks great! They add realism to the MLP. You may be able to try a different value resistor to dim the LED's some more. For the lamp shades, try painting them black and then paint the gray over them. This will light block them so the LED's don't shine through. Merry Christmas! Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 Thanks my faithful friends for your effusive compliments. Mike, yep, I will try to dim the LED's some more, maybe by painting the LEDs or testing "sunny white" LEDs. And for the lamp shades I fully agree with you, I'll use either black cable clips or try painting the gray clips black on the inside. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mknorr Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Very nice Manfred, It's a pity they don't make these pre wired LEDs in yellow/orange as that would more closely match the colour output of sodium vapor lamps. You seemed to have also solved the lamp housing. :thumbsup:/> That lighting is making things look even more realistic. Thank you for sharing. Edited December 25, 2013 by Mknorr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) Thanks Manfred for your nice words and staying tuned! BTW there are also yellow/orange LEDs, maybe I'll try them too. I wish you Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Edited December 26, 2013 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnbuck Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Hi Manfred It is some time since I have been to the forum so have had to catch up on your work. You are achieving something quite remarkable here. I would never had thought that mixed media on what is essentially a paper model could work so incredibly well. We live and learn indeed. The photographic / academic research you have had to undertake is also quite outstanding and well worth while filing up for future use by other modelmakers methinks. The idea of lighting puts the icing on an already extraordinary cake. On the question of the lights : I went onto the LEDBaron web site you mention but the English version within Ebay is not working properly and I have no German ( or sadly any other language for that matter - was bottom in French three years running at school ...but I did try ! ). They are the best and smallest LED's I have seen and a couple of questions arise which if you could help with them would be much appreciated so ...........Do LEDBaron issue a sort of 'Working with our LED's' booklet giving things like resistance, parallel/series wiring/contact strips and so on ? And the wires to the LED's ...am confused about the different types. Are they already insulated or must they be sleeved separately ? Keep up the fantastic work........am lost for superlatives. Very best wishes John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 Hi John, first of all also for you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and thanks for your nice words. And here is the Link to the ledbaron ebay shop with the full range of LEDs and accessories with different colors. BTW, do you have read the English text on its side with the product description? If not or if you have special questions, please write me a PM, then I will send you the product description and will help you. "For utmost miniaturization, magnet (copper) wire with only 0.1 mm in diameter (cross sectional area 0.008 mm2) is used, wafer-thin and ultra-flexible, but still covered with an electrical-isolating clear lacquer coating. The wire length is bout 140 mm up to 350 mm. For easy recognizable connecting, the Cathode is about 10 mm shorter than the Anode." The ends of the thin wires (0,1 mm) are tinned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnbuck Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Hi Manfred, thanks for the info ....really appreciated. Have just tried sending you a PM but a box comes up saying you cannot receive any more PM's Am just going to have to be patient I think and wait for their new web site to be finished, hopefully with a full English translation. Why do companies do this ? The market must be huge for such products particularly among us modelmakers. The possibilities are endless ............ the LED's I have seen are like bricks compared with these. Thanks again Best wishes John Edited December 27, 2013 by johnbuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mknorr Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Merry Christmas and a prosperous 2014 to you too Manfred! I must have been to a different site when I first looked at these LEDs. I never saw the yellow or orange ones. Just placed an order of 30 orange ones. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevenichols Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) That is simply incredible Manfred!! Edited December 27, 2013 by stevenichols Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 Thanks guys for your nice words and best wishes for 2014. The lighting with these tiny SMD LEDs is really a great challenge and a fascinating chapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Hello between years, so, I once experimented a bit further, with the lighting utensils. Since I had ferrules (probably copper) discovered that could be used for lampshades well. These are available in various diameters, with my 2.0 mm (Øa-ferrule) and 2.6 mm (Øa-brim) for the tests initially appeared most suitable, which is the second from the left. From this ferrule I have the brim expanded by means of a lathe center and 1-2 light hammer blows on Øa about 3.2 mm (left) and in this picture here. And with this "shield" and a pure white LED I have then made a test on the right Access Platform​​, wherein the shaft has to be of course reduced to about 1 mm in length. And here with the LED lights again, but the light seems too bright. In fact, it looks indeed still cold white, but is quite bearable. It appears in the photo but still totally garish oversubscribed. After that I once tried the small glass beads from the jewelry accessories, first of all the yellow, which I already had. These are about 2.5 mm in diameter (Øa), maybe almost too big for the lamp shade. But I have also seen in Rayher smaller beads. The inner diameter of the beads is about 1,0 - 1,5 mm, so that the mini-SMD LED still loose fit through. And this yellow light looks a bit more friendly than the pure white. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 So I've still bought this colorful transparent beads for a color test which with 2,2 mm (Øa) and 0.75 mm (Øi) are somewhat smaller. Then I have five pure white LEDs with series resistors hanged to a battery, and the function test without beads also worked right away. Now I have five of the colored glass beads slipped carefully over the LEDs, which had the following colors: 1 orange 2 yellow 3 red 4 green 5 blue Here now with lighting, of which the first three patterns certainly seem to me to be suitable, of which No. 1 might have the most pleasant warm tone. Or what do you think? Here again for comparison, the first LED without the orange bead with the pure white light. :blink:/> And here again the color palette close up. And one thing is fact and should be followed. The LED light is in the long run so bright that you really should not look longer into it without protection, what are the manufacturer warns certainly not without reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Pretty awesome! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mknorr Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 If your going with the beads, I'd chose the orange one. With a higher resistor to dim it a bit. Tamiya make translucent paint in a variety of colours that might help also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) Thanks Manfred, I'll use a current bank with constant current sources with which the brightness will be adjusted within wide limits. Interesting news, that Tamiya makes translucent paint in a variety of colours that might help also. After that, I'll take a look around. So folks, let's come to the end of this very old year, I wish you all a Take care and stay tuned! Edited December 31, 2013 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnbuck Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hi Manfred, I have found your LED test pics really useful and I like the idea of the glass beads to moderate the colour... a very clever idea. I have used glass paint ( Winsor & Newton Vitrina ) on brick like LED's in the past but it tended to have only a small effect as the light always 'got through' regardless, even when set very low. Can you tell us what resistors and battery power you are using ? I sent a couple of PM's re this as requested. Hope you received them OK. Very best wishes for the New Year to you and to all you other guys out there. Cheers John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted December 31, 2013 Author Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hi John, thanks for your nice compliments. For my first tests of the LEDs I have connected each of five LEDs with a resistor (250 Ohm) in series with a normal flat battery (4.5 V). Later I'll use a current bank with constant current sources (15 mA) and a power supply (15 V/1 A) with which the brightness can be adjusted within wide limits. The first current bank will have 8 independent sources, with which I can power up to 12 LEDs in series (up to 96). That would e.g. be enough to light the whole FSS Tower. What regards the glass paint, I fully agree with you and also think that the effect is not sufficient for reducing the brightness. So I'm going to make an attempt with colored lamp dip paint. Perhaps if that is sufficient, I could save my tricky work with the glass beads. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnbuck Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) Thanks for that Manfred...........most useful information.....really appreciated. Really look forward to seeing how you get on with this. Will you run the magnet wire in any form of fine ducting ? On the LEDBaron web site tried to find a 'how many hours' these tiny LED'S will last ( the standard ones seem to be at least 10000 hours ) Any idea on this ? Cheers John Edited January 1, 2014 by johnbuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Underdog Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 OMG unbelievable detail and amazing work.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) Hi John, I myself am eager to see how the things go on and look like. The laying of the thin LED wires I imagine not so problematic. What do you mean by fine ducting, thin pipes or other profiles? On the MLP, the cables run directly in front of the wall, as you can see here. Source: retrospaceimages.com The wiring is more difficult under the Blast shields because I have to find a suitable path in front of the wall through the Access Platforms gratings down. BTW, if you treat the LEDs well, that is, not are running with too much power, then they hold down easy 10.000 to 50.000 hours. Since you will not turn continuously it probably, which means in other words, if you are running these LEDs instead of 20 with only 15 mA, they outlive you! Edited January 1, 2014 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnbuck Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Thanks so much for that Manfred, Now I am starting to get my head round this. Have also just found this which may, or may not be, of use to you : http://www.retrospieler.de/e-led-r.html What is illustrated on this site is what I called a 'brick LED' ; nothing like you have found. Will order up SMD 0603 sunny white to play with as it will probably be more suitable for the little project I have in mind ie lighting the LM cabin/midsection....we shall see. Definitely try out the glass bead idea. Fortunately all the lights in the LM are hidden so this should simplify things. Will also try a variable type resistor. As you point out, one has to 'scale' the light output as well. If I find it is all too much I will blame you for getting me into this .....its all your fault for inspiring me with your great ideas !! Thanks again Cheers John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spaceman Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) Hi John, Yep, that's more than a brick, this is a LED in the mm range. But the basics are important for understanding this tricky stuff. I have followed your fascinating scratch build of the Lunar Module airframe and I'm curious how it will look with lighting. I think, SMD 0603 sunny white is a good choice for experiments that are not quite as tiny as the 0403 LEDs and you can see the effect. BTW, SMD 0603 sunny white might be a good choice for first experiments that are not quite as tiny as the 0403 LEDs. Do not panic or fear of his own courage, that's all not rocket science! You'll see it when you are holding the first LEDs in your hands (together with the right resistance!!!) and looking the first light glow, then you'll lose quickly the initial respect. One simply needs a certain emotion for dealing with these LEDs. And therefore shall again my old motto: Trial and error! Edited January 1, 2014 by spaceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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