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Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)


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On 21.11.2017 at 1:29 PM, spaceman said:

Hello everybody,

 

as I see you have no opinion or suggestions on this issue. undecided.gif

 

Anyway, let's go, because with regard to the glass body for the lamps without a large lampshade, I have at least gotten a tip from a friend from the Paper Modelers Forum, who has found out a manufacturer of smallest glass beads in the Czech Crystal Valley, which I could perhaps contact to possibly get a handful of samples for testing.  up045518.gif

 

 

Hello everybody,

 

just short to the status quo, as one could expect, from the Crystal Valley I've got a negative answer to my request, because they only deliver upwards of 30 kg.  eek.gif

 

And quite so many lamps there are not installed on the Launch Pad.  up040577.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everybody,

 

in the meantime, I went to another building site again and took care of the Intertank of the External Tank (ET), which I like to have as 3D print (1:144), if I can find a modeler and manufacturer for it. cool.gif

 

up060266.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Here is the 3D model by my friend Bill (niParts) from the ARC Forum, but unfortunately only in 1:72 scale, rolleyes.gif 

 

up060295.jpg
Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

as well as here with the installation of the finished 3D-Intertank at his ET (1:72), where the part comes out great, in my opinion. up045518.gif

 

up060296.jpg  up060297.jpg 
Source: arcforums.com (niart17)

 

And he also offers the matching mounts (Ice Frost Ramps) for the GH2 and GO2 pressure lines, also 1:72.

 

up060298.jpg
Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

A charming alternative to this is the Scratch building with thin Evergreen strips, 

 

up020598.jpg
Source: raumfahrer.net (inselaner)

 

as it was successfully and impressively had been realized by my friend (inselaner) in the Raumcon forum at the ET of his Airfix Shuttle Stack.up039822.gif

 

up028958.jpg
Source: raumfahrer.net (inselaner)

 

So far, I have also flirted with the idea of this scratch-building variant, in case I can not find a suitable 3D-print. up045518.gif

 

In the Airfix kit, the Intertank stringers are only hinted at by these boring decals and are therefore only 2D, which I can not make friends with. smiley_worship.gif 

 

5SsQGv.jpg

 

So I'm still trying to get a 3D Intertank (1:144), with that Michael Key (The Aerospace Place) had been starting in a hopeful way, cool.gif

 

up060290.jpg
Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

 

on whose update I'm still waiting.  hmmm.gif

 

That's why I've been more in-depth with the Stringers, if I have to scratch them myself, which I did not intend to do. huh.gif

 

XJ8Las.jpg
Source: NASA

 

So far, unfortunately, I had no dimensions of the stringers, but rather I have always tried to estimate it myself. At first, these images helped me, where cracks in the insulating foam on the Intertank before the STS-133 had been investigated,

 

K4ptmV.jpg
Source: NASA

 

which were caused by a broken stringer, which can be seen here. shocked.gif And thus the height of the stringers should be about 2.5''.

 

Pz2Usf.jpg
Source: NASA

 

From another image of this study after the repair of this stringer area, then I have determinedthe 1:144 widths of the Stringer (0.3 mm) and the Valleys (0.65 mm), which would be a good basis for scratch building.  up045518.gif

 

lk4BSJ.jpg
Source: NASA

 

So far so good, but then I've actually found even more detailed information about stringer geometry in another NASA document (ntrs.nasa.gov), 

 

gJwPnO.jpg
Source: NASA

 

with which I made this sketch (1:1), which was then supplemented by the 1'' thick foam insulation (red),

 

IwHbzI.jpg

 

And these dimensions with foam insulation could now, if one would like, be taken as a basis for scratch building, which is summarized here again. top.gif

 

ZQl2Lu.jpg
Source: NASA

 

But I still hope that Michael Key keeps on the line. At first he wanted to know the diameter and the exact position of the LO2-Feed Line as well as the Forward SRB Attachment Point) in the Intertank, what I still have to determine. up040577.gif

 

up060291.jpg
Source: NASA

Edited by spaceman
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Thanks Pete for your good wishes, bow.gif

 

the Scratch variant with Evergreen strips, I'll initially keep in the hindquarters. top.gif

 

But I think Michael Key is on a good way and will succeed. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hello everyone,

 

and my hope was not disappointed. Yesterday Michael Key came up with a new update in which he took into account some of my correction hints. cool.gif

 

On the one hand, it has reduced his previous, somewhat too large number of stringer in the two Thrust Panel to 26, as well as the perpendicularly extending circumferential segment rings somewhat narrower made, which looks much better.

 

4h2kZN.jpg
Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

 

And on the other hand, he has adapted the geometry of the front and rear transitions from the Intertank to the ET better to the original.

 

MpYqdn.jpg
Source: NASA

 

as you can see here, all respect.  speak_cool.gif

 

QXrEnl.jpg
Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

 

In order to be able to continue modeling, he now needs the exact location of the SRB Forward Attachment Points, as well as the location of the LO2 Feedline (Ø 17'') and of the GO2 and GH2 Pressure Lines (Ø 2'') , shown in this drawing. top.gif

 

9czRyt.jpg
Source: Lockheed Martin (System Definition Handbook SLWT - Vol. II)

 

The only question is whether or how well the details of the Shuttle Stack from the Airfix Kit match this original drawing, or not. smiley215.gif

 

In order to be able to check these details on the shuttle stack, I had to disassemble my previously provisionally taped Test-stack rolleyes.gif and then to attach the kit supports at the SRB on the ET-Attachment Ring to determine the exact position of the coupling point on the Intertank.

 

UHzSyj.jpg

 

AdhDZj.jpg

 

With the glued supports, the location of the SRB on the ET was now fixed exactly,

 

ZXhune.jpg

 

and could be marked again.

 

pgutk4.jpg

 

After that, I was amazed that my border of the front SRB docking pad, previously marked with tape on the test stack, was sitting actually a bit too deep,   huh.gif which could now be corrected.  

 

wDHdGm.jpg

 

woVCbP.jpg


Then I still determined the location of the LO2 feedline on the Intertank and was pleasantly surprised that the angle of 23° matches with the value in the above drawing. top.gif

 

tJAWje.jpg

 

However, what is less consistent with the original is the spartan version of the feedline itself and the lack of coverage (Fairing).

 

G70rYC.jpg
Source: NASA

 

This has been realized much better by Revell on their ET-Intertank, as you can see here at the ET of my recently unexpectedly deceased friend Thomas from Bavaria, whose Real Space Modeling estate was taken over by me. 

 

i0qnhZ.jpg


In view of this, after careful consideration and in coordination with his wife and son, I have come to the conclusion that it would be also in his sense to at least partly preserve his model-building heritage, when I would integrate some of his assemblies and parts, e.g. the already LED illuminated FSS platforms and the Hammerhead Crane as well as the PE staircases for the tower, etc. into my model and would thus be able to document and honor his awesome modeling work and skills for everyone visibly posthumously. - May he rest in peace ...

 

And here finally the distance of the coupling point for Michael Key, which lies approximately in the middle. top2.gif 

 

Qa8JX0.jpg

 

At this point, a continuous inner tube is foreseen into which I will later insert a brass rod (Ø 2 mm) to stabilize the SRBs. up040577.gif

 

up060359.jpg
Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

Edited by spaceman
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Hi Manfred,  

 

You're doing such a great job on this project!  It's great to see you starting to research and work on the shuttle stack.  I haven't posted a lot lately but I'm following along with all of your posts.

 

Will Michael Key's 1/144 3D printed Intertank be available for everyone to buy?

 

Mike.

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Thank you Mike for your words of praise and your continued interest, as well as to all my other true friends here, lob3.gif

and therefore you will hereby be decorated with the STS-6 Order of Merit 1st Class

 

UApwP2.jpg

 

I know the particular predilection of you guys here in ARC for Shuttle Modeling, but I'm even more interested in the whole Launch Complex with all of its fascinating technique. top.gif

 

BTW, I think so, that Michael Key's 3D Intertank (1/144) someday will be available at Shapeways for everyone to buy, but I will ask him. up040577.gif

 

But keep in mind that this ET-IT is specially modeled for the Airfix ET, which differs in some details and dimensions from Revell's ET. schlaumeier.gif

 

So this intertank is tapered from bottom to top - thicker at the bottom and 1 mm thinner at the top, what is very strange, but it's fact.  eek.gif

 

[IMG]

 

Bye for now. 

Edited by spaceman
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Hello everybody,

 

in the direct comparison of the two ETs I noticed that the Revell IT is about three millimeters further back than on the Airfix ET,  huh.gif while the lengths and diameters are almost identical.

 

FnXvYF.jpg

 

And because we are comparing the two stack kits, I also looked at the SRBs a bit more closely and also found some differences. cool.gif

 

9PV5Xy.jpg

 

Apart from the smaller number of lower rings, the Revell-SRB appears less filigree than the Airfix SRB, particularly caused by the larger Aft Skirt Hold-down Posts and the sturdier supports on the ET Attachment Ring, although the diameters are comparable.

 

If one compares the two undersides of the Aft Skirts, one will notice that the ring-shaped heat shield on the Airfix SRB is too narrow-breasted, which Revell has not solve optimally, but at least better, 

 

SVU0tl.jpg

 

what the comparison with this picture makes clear, even if it is just a Mock-up on the KSC grounds.  rolleyes.gif

 

UHUO0A.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Probably that has animated my ARC friend Bill (niart17) to 3D-modeling of his Heat shields (1:72).gruebel.gif

 

rCDvm7.jpg
Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

But neither the heat shield of the Mock-up nor the 3D printing are perfect, as the original consists of 24 segments, as one can see in this drawing. 

 

8t5lGF.jpg
Source: Space Transportation System - HAER No. TX-116

 

And so it is also with the kits, no one is perfect, everyone has their advantages and disadvantages.up040577.gif

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Hello everybody,

 

now, of course, the question araises, how one could preferably scratch this heat shield, has anyone from the round possibly a useful tip? hmmm.gif

 

Here also still an original photo, whereby these foam insulation under the rings in the early missions did not exist then. i5684_no2.gif

 

MMOUMF.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Or I could try to model such a half ring, e.g. by using Epoxie Sculpt on a circular ring from Sheet. smiley215.gif

 

The easiest way would be for sure if I could motivate Michael Key to model such heat shields in 1/144 for 3D printing, similar as my friend Bill (niart17) made it in 1/72, although I do not necessarily want to overwhelm him with further extra wishes. rolleyes.gif

 

So, what else are there for suggestions or ideas? einfall.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Thanks Joe for looking in on me. :worship: 

 

What would you need for your approach? hmmm.gif

 

BTW, after I've measured the SRB in the last photo again more exactly, I still hit on another idea. top.gif

 

Make one out of two!  top2.gif


I also still have a Revell Stack from the kit and could combine its Aft Skirt-Ring, which does not look too bad, with the Airfix Disc. speak_cool.gif

 

3wR4Fy.jpg


And I would imagine that the result could well become a useful compromise. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hi Manfred, I'll just need a rough sketch and basic measurements -- inner and outer diameters and shape of the cross section.  Just something hand-drawn. The individual segments - do they have straight sides, or would the whole thing be just like a smooth ring cut up into 24 parts?

Edited by crackerjazz
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Hi Joe,

 

today I will send you a sketch with basic measurements. top.gif

 

In Bill's 3D model the individual segments have straight sides, as one can see.

 

rCDvm7.jpg

 

In Newware's Enhancement Kit (NW131) the Resin Heat Shield looks like a smooth ring devided into 24 parts.

 

 

788ioq.jpg

 


In this photo (Hi-Res) one can see some more details of the real heat shield and its construction, which in my opinion also  looks like a ring. up040577.gif

 

06pd0109-m.jpg

Source: NASA

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This is going to be great viewing as you accurize these assemblies Manfred!

 

But, I'm curious as to why you would need to replicate this in 3D when the 24 segments could be replicated with .005" sheet styrene or even printer paper, laid over the kit's part.  

 

Thanx

Elliot ... I mean, Pete   :doh:

 

 

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Thanks Pete,  :worship:

 

and sorry for my confusion, smiley208.gif  but that comes from if one is dancing on too many weddings, and then quickly cut and paste ... up037311.gif

 

Yep, I also would like to hold a 3 D printed part in my hand to get a better feeling for it. top.gif

 

BTW, surely one could scratch a part like this too, but I still have enough stuff to scratch ... up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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On 19.12.2017 at 6:17 AM, crackerjazz said:

Hi Manfred, I'll just need a rough sketch and basic measurements -- inner and outer diameters and shape of the cross section.  Just something hand-drawn. The individual segments - do they have straight sides, or would the whole thing be just like a smooth ring cut up into 24 parts?

 

Hi Joe,

 

these are the parts of the Airfix SRB & Aft Skirt,

 

dBWhxk.jpg

 

and here is my little sketch of the ASTC, technically known as the Aft Skirt Thermal Curtain,

 

XK8Tul.jpg

 

which is desribed in this interesting report SRB Thermal Curtain Design Supportup045518.gif

 

The ASTC is a flexible, high temperature, cloth and insulation composite that is used to protect the hardware located inside the aft skirt of the SRB, which consists of nine layers of insulating materials and is 2.58 inches thick. The ASTC is made up of twenty four segments, which are hand sewn together during installation on the aft skirt, eek.gif what one can see here.

 

J62r1Y.jpg
Source: NASA
 

In this report there are some interesting drawings oft the ASTC, which might help you during 3D modeling of this detail.

 

sQRuh6.jpg

utECyW.jpg

That's why I'm thinking, that the segments should be more curved than in Bill's 3D model, where they are more flat. gruebel.gif


In my opinion White Strong & Flexible should be a good choise for the 3D print, isn't it?

 

Now I can only hope, that you can come up with a good approach. up040577.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Hi Manfred,

 

Didn't realize it was this small.   I wouldn't suggest White, Strong and Flexible because of the roughness.    But that ring on the Airfix part -- can it be rescribed instead?   Or Pete's suggestion to make paper or sheet styrene segments might be a good idea too --  it will simulate the surface imperfections better.

 

Anyway, got a question, this should be 2.5mm?

8GG619Z.jpg

 

NI3wa0e.jpg

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Hi Joe,

 

yep, you have to keep in mind that the Airfix Kit is only 1/144, and so the Airfix part has an outside diameter of 33 mm

 

But you are absolutely right of course, the height must be 2,5 mm, that's my mistake, I also have measured and drawn 2,5 mm. :doh:

 

s8HzZU.jpg

 

 These are the ASTC Resin parts in Newware's Space Shuttle Enhancement Kit 1/144 (NW131).

 

up048428.jpg

 

Do you think that FUD would be better? hmmm.gifI only thought, because Bill has used WSF for his 3D print. Maybe he could say something about the better quality? 

 

Unfortunately, I have no experience in this field. i5684_no2.gif

 

BTW, I don't understand, what you mean with your question,  if that ring on the Airfix part could be rescribed? Even my Google translator was helpless ... nixweiss.gif

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Hello everyone,

 

because that just now fits in well, so the ASTCs look like, respectively what remained of them after a launch. eek.gif

 

UocSs4.jpg
Source: trn.trains.com (Route of the Rockets)

 

This great photo from the salvage of the SRBs has been posted by a girlfriend from Papermodelers forum, which was a crucial help in solving one of my last riddles with a strange equipment on the inner walls of the SRB Exhaust Chambers of the MLP.

 

When looking at the circled detail of this photo, I immediately recalled, because this item is strangely wrapped on many photos, as one can see here.

 

up051926.jpg
Source: NASA

 

Here one can detect a little bit more,

 

ukc9BM.jpg
Source: NASA

 

and here one can see it under the SRB Aft Skirt,

 

qdO26B.jpg
Source: NASA

 

in direct contact with the above circled interface, and both parts are like chalk and cheese. top.gif

 

ubLbJT.jpg

 

But nevertheless the question remains, as to what these devices were used for and whether they existed from the start, or whether they were eventually retrofitted? hmmm.gif

BTW, from time to time such ASTC segments even appear in the "Bay", it's hard to believe ... erschrocken3.gif

 

s-l500.jpg
Source: ebay.com

 

So friends, at this point I want to remind you once again of my Christmas decorated MLP from the previous year,

 

up054207.jpg

 

and wish you all Merry Christmas. xmas-wave-smiley-emoticon.gif

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Hi Manfred,

 

Maybe you can use the ASTC parts from the Revell kit and scribe thin lines to separate the 24 segments or use thin styrene strip to make the separations.  These parts will be under the SRB's when it's mounted so they really won't be seen much.

 

If you do use 3D printed parts I would use FUD for those.  WSF is very grainy.  

 

I like your decorated MLP!

 

Have a Merry Christmas! :santa:

Edited by crowe-t
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Thanks Mike for your tips, :worship:

and also for you and Patricia and your nice cats Merry ChristmasBild

I'm still hoping that Joe can come up with a brilliant 3D model, otherwise I have to help myself and find a way out. top.gif

 

BTW, although I'm still a 3D layman, but these parts can not be so difficult for an expert like Joe, I guess, when I look at his other spectacular models. top2.gif

 

BTW, I have measured the thin seams in the Hi-Res image, which should be only 0,1 mm in 1:144, therefore one could only scribe them at best. 

 

And besides, nearly nothing of the ASTCs is to be seen under the Aft Skirts when the stack is standing,cant-believe-my-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gifso you're absolutely right. santa.gif

Edited by spaceman
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Merry Christmas!    No expert here, Manfred -- I'm still learning : (      I started over and rebuilt the 3D model.  I don't know why the doughnut in my initial model turned out so thin.  Anyway I think I'm pretty much done -- I can upload this to  Shapeways so we can see how much it'll turn out.    I don't really add any markup -- doing this just for fun.

 

39342695612_faf3962a77_b.jpg

 

39342701642_556e36eb60_b.jpg

Edited by crackerjazz
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Hi Joe,

 

thanks for your help, your ASTC 3D model looks awesome. speak_cool.gif

 

Can you indicate the thin seams between the segments only as a small groove of about 0.1 mm? gruebel.gif

 

I hope, that your model will also include two ASTCs, like Bill's model, right? 

 

I also think that FUD should maybe be better than WSF

 

I'm curious what Shapeways will answer? undecided.gif

 

Now I wish you and everyone a Happy New Year!

up054237.gif

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